ImageImage

FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

Profound23
RealGM
Posts: 20,304
And1: 8,098
Joined: Jun 29, 2005
     

FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#1 » by Profound23 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:02 pm

Is the FBI investigating Donaghy's allegations? Will others be charged with crimes?

The FBI already has investigated the allegations. Donaghy first met with FBI agents in July 2007. A team of agents has been probing his stories ever since. As the result of their investigations, federal prosecutors have filed what is known as a 5(k) letter. The 5(k) letter means the agents have checked on the stories and have concluded Donaghy was truthful. The 5(k) letter does not apply to the 2002 Western Conference finals Game 6 because the statute of limitations had expired. More than five years went by before Donaghy described that game to any agents. There was no reason to look into that game because no one could be charged with a crime. The 5(k) letter does apply to statements Donaghy made to agents regarding the three games in 2005. The information could result in a reduction of Donaghy's prison sentence when Amon sentences him July 14. He faces a maximum of 33 months in prison under federal guidelines.

Although the FBI has concluded Donaghy was truthful, it does not mean others will be charged with crimes. Agents and prosecutors easily could have concluded that the rigging of the four games was reprehensible but did not qualify as a federal crime. There was no indication of gambling or money laundering or racketeering on the part of the NBA in Donaghy's allegations. If the NBA wants to extend a series to a seventh game, it might be fraud upon the fans, but it is not a federal crime.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=3439659
EastSideBucksFan
RealGM
Posts: 18,710
And1: 4,490
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Contact:
 

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#2 » by EastSideBucksFan » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:09 pm

If I could put music to my post it would be "The Death March" from Star Wars


David Stern could be buried with this one


:starwars
User avatar
rilamann
RealGM
Posts: 27,665
And1: 15,186
Joined: Jun 20, 2003
Location: Damn that rilamann!!
     

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#3 » by rilamann » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:10 pm

Of course it was truthful,Anyone that didnt think there was truth to it either is blind or doesnt follow the NBA.
Profound23
RealGM
Posts: 20,304
And1: 8,098
Joined: Jun 29, 2005
     

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#4 » by Profound23 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:13 pm

Why the hell was Bavetta of all refs, reffing last night?

A game that even if the Lakers win fairly, which they did not, would be questioned because Bavetta is reffing? The same ref under investigation for everything else.

Stern's ego is bigger than Barry Bond's head.
User avatar
DH34Phan
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,627
And1: 114
Joined: Jun 30, 2005
Contact:

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#5 » by DH34Phan » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:16 pm

Damn...the last 10 years (at least) of the NBA has been a complete joke.
User avatar
europa
RealGM
Posts: 44,919
And1: 471
Joined: Jun 25, 2005
Location: Right Behind You

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#6 » by europa » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:20 pm

Profound23 wrote:Why the hell was Bavetta of all refs, reffing last night?


That really was unbelievable. The guy is the subject of serious questions by federal agents and he's reffing a deciding game in the Finals? The officiating had nothing to do with the outcome of last night's game (fortunately) but much of the questioning with regard to Bavetta is whether he has officiated games in ways that ensured the home team would win or gain an advantage. And he's on the court in LA in a game which could end the Lakers' season?

I wasn't shocked to see it which really is the sad thing. What's even more disappointing is how nobody in the media is blasting the living hell out of Stern for allowing it to happen. Or maybe I just haven't seen the stories? But it seems to me that should be a HUGE sidebar to last night's game and one that shouldn't be allowed to die down anytime soon.
Nothing will not break me.
User avatar
humanrefutation
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 32,724
And1: 16,403
Joined: Jun 05, 2006
       

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#7 » by humanrefutation » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:26 pm

By pulling Bavetta from last night's game, it would've been a tacit acknowledgement that there is some truth/merit/weight to Donaghy's statements. Seeing as Stern already dismissed them, it would've made him seem like a hypocrite to pull Bavetta from the game.

Not that I think he should've been reffing the game, but if I was a lawyer for the league, there is no way Bavetta gets pulled.
User avatar
europa
RealGM
Posts: 44,919
And1: 471
Joined: Jun 25, 2005
Location: Right Behind You

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#8 » by europa » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:38 pm

Do we even know how far in advance these assignments are made? I know the announcement of who is officiating the game isn't made until the day of the game. That's one of the problems here - way too much of this is done in secret. If the assignments were made out well in advance of the Finals and were common knowledge, that would be one thing. But the latter clearly isn't the case. The fact federal agents are asking very pointed questions about Dick Bavetta should keep him from officiating a game of this magnitude in my opinion. Can you imagine the firestorm that would've happened if the game was on the line and Kobe got a questionable call by Bavetta that would have determined the outcome? That didn't happen but just the fact Stern was willing to put the league in a position where it could is extremely unsettling in my opinion.
Nothing will not break me.
User avatar
crkone
RealGM
Posts: 29,092
And1: 9,735
Joined: Aug 16, 2006

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#9 » by crkone » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:49 pm

europa wrote:
Profound23 wrote:Why the hell was Bavetta of all refs, reffing last night?


That really was unbelievable. The guy is the subject of serious questions by federal agents and he's reffing a deciding game in the Finals? The officiating had nothing to do with the outcome of last night's game (fortunately) but much of the questioning with regard to Bavetta is whether he has officiated games in ways that ensured the home team would win or gain an advantage. And he's on the court in LA in a game which could end the Lakers' season?

I wasn't shocked to see it which really is the sad thing. What's even more disappointing is how nobody in the media is blasting the living hell out of Stern for allowing it to happen. Or maybe I just haven't seen the stories? But it seems to me that should be a HUGE sidebar to last night's game and one that shouldn't be allowed to die down anytime soon.


I believe that it was pretty fair officiating even if there were a combined 56 PFs. But I bet even if Kobe punched a ref and kicked a baby he wouldn't have got his 5th or a tech.

Code: Select all

o- - -  \o          __|
   o/   /|          vv`\
  /|     |              |
   |    / \_            |
  / \   |               |
 /  |                   |
User avatar
Kerb Hohl
RealGM
Posts: 35,433
And1: 4,405
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#10 » by Kerb Hohl » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:53 pm

Looks like this article is from a few days ago but it is just more music to my ears. It was part of the reason that I haven't been as interested in the NBA in recent years.

I think we should get a rematch series of the 2001 finals with the Bucks and the Lakers (although who knows if the Lakers would have made it). Oh wait, we'd get destroyed still by Kobe and a fading Shaq. Granted, we'd give Redd a lot of PT.
User avatar
BobbyLight
RealGM
Posts: 10,027
And1: 1,546
Joined: Jul 29, 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Contact:
 

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#11 » by BobbyLight » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:08 am

It is amazing to me that this is still flying under the radar. I haven't heard or seen on major news outlet cover this. I hope it gets some play, and maybe after the finals it will. Stern needs to be gone and I think this might do it.
User avatar
InsideOut
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,757
And1: 535
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#12 » by InsideOut » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:14 am

BobbyLight wrote:It is amazing to me that this is still flying under the radar. I haven't heard or seen on major news outlet cover this. I hope it gets some play, and maybe after the finals it will. Stern needs to be gone and I think this might do it.


X% Could care less.

X% Assumed it was fixed all along.

10% Still in denial.

But you are correct. What does it say about the NBA when this kind of story gets no play. A Tiger Woods hangnail would get more coverage than the FBI agreeing the NBA is fixed.
NeedsMoreCheese
RealGM
Posts: 43,042
And1: 8,369
Joined: Apr 22, 2002
   

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#13 » by NeedsMoreCheese » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:14 am

crkone wrote:
europa wrote:
Profound23 wrote:Why the hell was Bavetta of all refs, reffing last night?


That really was unbelievable. The guy is the subject of serious questions by federal agents and he's reffing a deciding game in the Finals? The officiating had nothing to do with the outcome of last night's game (fortunately) but much of the questioning with regard to Bavetta is whether he has officiated games in ways that ensured the home team would win or gain an advantage. And he's on the court in LA in a game which could end the Lakers' season?

I wasn't shocked to see it which really is the sad thing. What's even more disappointing is how nobody in the media is blasting the living hell out of Stern for allowing it to happen. Or maybe I just haven't seen the stories? But it seems to me that should be a HUGE sidebar to last night's game and one that shouldn't be allowed to die down anytime soon.


I believe that it was pretty fair officiating even if there were a combined 56 PFs. But I bet even if Kobe punched a ref and kicked a baby he wouldn't have got his 5th or a tech.


I agree with the second part, but fair? Hardly. KG got raped as far as calls go. There were numerous times there was a clear foul but nothing was called. (For example when Lamar Odom shoved Posey in the back which knocked him down out of bounds right next to the hoop during a rebound. Paul Pierce getting called for like 3 fouls within a minute because he may have breathed on Kobe wrong when it was crunch time. Kobes "steal" (Reach in foul).
Its a joke to watch Kobe though, he whines more than anybody, "shows up the ref", but if hes already had 1 technical in the game, or its close in the final minutes, he could pull out an Uzi and the ref would be like oooh shiny.
Lamar got some of that treatment last night too. (Dont get me wrong, I really like Lamar but he got away with too much ****)

Then today I realized due to an article i read, Bavetta was reffing last night and was one of the guys who fixed that other game. Gee, what a coincidence. (And it just so happened to be for the Lakers again too. Yet another "coincidence")
Licensed to Il
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,567
And1: 3,127
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
 

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#14 » by Licensed to Il » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:34 am

A huge part of my passion for the NBA died during the Mavs - Heat finals. And I think the reason why was obvious to anyone who watched it.

The NBA does have crooked officiating. No one could convince me otherwise. But I believe that simalair things happen in other sports and fly by with less scrutiny.

The NBA (more than any other league) is plagued by biased media members and an apathetic general public. NCAA mens hoops for example, has historically produced more proven point shaving and betting scandals than any other sport. Yet, who do fans and media repeatedly fawn over for being the "purest" sport? NCAA hoops. The greatest sensation of the last 25 years (the fab five) was as crooked as an Englishman's teeth, yet most sing the prasies of intercolligiate purity year after year. I think the NBA is perceived a certain way by most people (spoiled black kids) and as a result, negative accusations and stereotypes stick to it more than other sports. Heck, Shawn Marimen (sp?) from the Chargers used steroids and won defensive player of the year, and I can't remember reading a single article about it. And Ray Lewis (something funny happened that night in his bloody limo) gets puff piece after puff piece written about him, while people still crucify Ron Artest for the Palace brawl. And speaking of the brawl, there have been half a dozen instances in baseball of players going in to the stands in the last 8 years and most fans couldn't name one of them.

I'm not playing the race card here. The NBA has some serious problems no matter what, on their own merits (and deservingly so). But having said all that, I don't think the NBA gets the graces that football, baseball, and the NCAA's do.
MilBucksBackOnTop06
Banned User
Posts: 12,827
And1: 14
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#15 » by MilBucksBackOnTop06 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:58 am

DH34Phan wrote:Damn...the last 10 years (at least) of the NBA has been a complete joke.
Please....longer then that. That is all the time that you have experienced. This has been going on for a long time.
Every since Stern became Commissioner just about after Larry O'Brien. The league was in a funk and needed a guy to come in and 'alter things.'

That started with the drafting of Magic and Bird. You then had the 'Bird exception' to keep him in Boston, and then Jordan came to Chicago and then Patrick Ewing went to the Knicks in lottery.

Free agency change the year before Shaq was a free agent in Orlando so he could leave without giving up half the Laker team for him and they went on to win titles.

Orlando has really been screwed out of all this when you look at it. Trading Chris Webber for Penny Hardaway was stupid. They had Scott Skiles on that team, Then Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady all failed.

Then Shaq bolts for nothing like a crook so the Lakers would not lose any players and Stern looks the other way as L.A. wins rings... That is why I can't stand the Lakers to this day!

Just a low down organization. :noway: All under Stern's watch...
User avatar
th87
RealGM
Posts: 11,520
And1: 13,417
Joined: Dec 04, 2005

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#16 » by th87 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:31 am

^Amen to that!

And yes, I completely agree that there's a double standard in terms of NBA perception. A basebrawl happens, no big deal. Todd Bertuzzi and Marty McSorley acting like thugs, no big deal. But oh man, if Ron Artest or JR Smith get into fights, they're thugs ruining the NBA.

And as far as the ref scandal goes, could we file a class action lawsuit against the NBA?
User avatar
BobbyLight
RealGM
Posts: 10,027
And1: 1,546
Joined: Jul 29, 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Contact:
 

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#17 » by BobbyLight » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:08 pm

th87 wrote:^Amen to that!

And yes, I completely agree that there's a double standard in terms of NBA perception. A basebrawl happens, no big deal. Todd Bertuzzi and Marty McSorley acting like thugs, no big deal. But oh man, if Ron Artest or JR Smith get into fights, they're thugs ruining the NBA.

And as far as the ref scandal goes, could we file a class action lawsuit against the NBA?


I was actually thinking about that. Not that it's something I would do, but lets say more and more evidence comes out against the leauge and the proof is undeniable. Do we, as consumers of the product have the right to sue for a product that was given to us under false information. The false information being that every team has a fair shot and the ref's are 100% impartial. Again, not that I'd ever try to do this, but it's an interesting discussion.
EastSideBucksFan
RealGM
Posts: 18,710
And1: 4,490
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Contact:
 

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#18 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:33 pm

Someone has started a petition to remove David Stern


It hasn't gained much steam yet though


http://www.gopetition.com/online/19911.html
old skool
General Manager
Posts: 7,962
And1: 3,716
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Location: Chi

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#19 » by old skool » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:58 pm

I don't think that it is earth shattering that the league tells the referees that they should take care to not impact a game by tossing a superstar. Or a star. Or a key player. There is some latitude exercised by an NBA ref when it comes to technical fouls and ejections. It makes sense to remind them to exercise caution when using their discretion.

I don't think that it is earth shattering that there is selective enforcement of rules in the NBA. A few years ago the NBA began the season enforcing the hand check rule very tightly. As the season wore on, enforcement lessened. Clearly the league was making a point early in the year. I don't recall anyone - here or elsewhere - bemoaning the change away from extreme enforcement.

I don't think that it is earth shattering that some referees violate the letter of the law when it comes to contact with NBA players and coaches. I think that is why the NBA has changed some of those work rules. They recognize that those rules were unworkable.

I don't think that it is earth shattering that the NBA has not altered it's method for selecting officials for assignments in the Finals. This might even be part of the collective bargaining agreement, which would prohibit them contractually from not assigning Bavetta. If the NBA was confident that Bavetta was not guilty of intentionally trying to influence games, it would be a pretty spineless thing to do to sit Bavetta for PR reasons alone. That is precisely the type of thing that Mike Mathis has been accusing the NBA of doing for several years - putting the image of the NBA ahead of the rights of individual referees. It would be ironic if it came out that the NBA protects the rights of a ref like Bavetta rather than cover its PR rear end.

I don't think that it is earth shattering that NBA refs would be characterized as "company men". The FBI can conclude that Donaghy was truthful, without proving that his accusations are accurate. Donaghy's letter did not contain proof that games were refereed so that one team would win. It would be nearly impossible to prove that a referee saw a call one way, but called it another way to influence the game. NBA refs blow about 10% of all calls. The league admits this. Unless a ref admits to purposely making the wrong call, how can one anyone prove which calls were wrong intentionally and which calls were wrong inadvertently? Donaghy said that the calls were wrong on purpose. He has no proof - it is tough to prove.

oLd sKool





Is it really
old skool
General Manager
Posts: 7,962
And1: 3,716
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Location: Chi

Re: FBI file letter of belief that Donaghy is truthful 

Post#20 » by old skool » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:21 pm

For me, the important question is whether or not the NBA tries to rig games.

If there is proof, someone should make that info available. The issue of proof is pretty straight forward and would result in fines and prison time for those involved.

The FBI might not move quickly in a case where the crime is in the past. That is not what we have here. If the FBI knows that there is a criminal conspiracy to defraud certain franchises of victories and championships, and cost them the financial benefits that accompany victories and championships, and if the FBI knows that some players see their earning potential diminished markedly as a result of the conspiracy to commit fraud, the FBI is obligated to move quickly to prevent the fraud from continuing to hurt individuals and companies.

The FBI might be deliberate making a case against individuals who are no longer employed by the NBA. Or individuals who are retired or deceased. But it is their policy to expedite criminal cases where they can prove that crimes are being committed that continue to injure individuals and companies. The FBI is obligated to stop such illegal activity as soon as possible to protect those who are being injured and minimize their loss.

The fact that the FBI has not moved to stop the NBA from continuing to operate is an indication that the FBI does not have proof of ongoing illegal activity.

oLd sKool

Return to Milwaukee Bucks