POLL: What should be our plan before the trade deadline?

[jeremyd236]

Trade for me, I say.

If only....

I think he's gotta be one of the most unhappy players in the NBA right now. Shaq is outplaying him.

[Nebula1]

Trade for me, I say.

If only....

I think he's gotta be one of the most unhappy players in the NBA right now. Shaq is outplaying him.

It's the way the franchise needs to be thinking right now. I'd like to see that leak:

....Bucks attempting to trade for Amare....

[raferfenix]

Could we avoid putting The Prince in an Amare trade?

The big worry about trading for him--especially if it'd cost Mbah a Moute--is that he might start a power struggle with Skiles as well. Even if he leaves in a year and a half I'd still trade a ton for him if he'd help us win now within Skiles' system.

[Nebula1]

Could we avoid putting The Prince in an Amare trade?

The big worry about trading for him--especially if it'd cost Mbah a Moute--is that he might start a power struggle with Skiles as well. Even if he leaves in a year and a half I'd still trade a ton for him if he'd help us win now within Skiles' system.

I would think you'd trade anybody for Amare, except Ramon, Redd, Mbah a Moute, and Bogut. I think those 4 plus Amare gives you the starting 5. Just my opinion.

Skiles is a bit of an ****. I'm not bowing to him just yet.

[Nowak008]

Good point about the Pacers' model Will. I've endorsed that one heavily in the past so I can't believe I didn't mention it in the other thread. That's another excellent model to follow. The Pacers had some damn good teams in the 90s.

I'd be fine with following that model too. Redd and RJ still have to go though.


As far as the thread is concerned I would really look to move RJ for some salary relief. Next year I'd be happy with having LRMAM start at the 3 and bring over Ersan to be our back up at the 3/4 slot.

If we could move RJ for expirings, it wouldn't be inconceivable to have Sessions, CV, and Ersan next year.

[aboveAverage]

I would love Amare. Who wouldn't want him? He's a first team All NBA player who puts up 20/10 like it's a joke.

[Chapter29]

Sadly the draft is really our only hope for a star. A star is likely required to win it all.

Most of the current top teams acquired their best player from the draft and Milwaukee stands little chance to land a star via FA like Boston did, who of course had Pierce whom they drafted.

So if winning it all is one and our only goal, then our choices are to build a team more similar to the Pistons model (ie trade, FA and without a true star) and hope for the best or to try a land a star via the draft.

Sadly this approach has let us down in my time as a Bucks fan. Dog. Bogut. #1 overall and this is what we get? Come on. Yi. CV. 2 hopefuls that certainly will not be stars and its questionable as to their value as a whole.

My opinion is that you try to always improve your team and don't take the risk in the draft. I loved our Bucks teams in the Moncrief era for example and they were not a championship caliber team. I'll take a run like that over this crap of losing and then getting some hopeful that really doesn't pan out anyways.

I'd be plenty fine also with a non-title winning run like those Moncrief led teams had.

That said, you didn't include that Moncrief was drafted 5th overall and Marques Johnson was selected 3rd overall by the Bucks. How would that Bucks run of success have happened if they hadn't been in position to draft the two key cogs in that run of success?

Plus, 1st overall pick by the Bucks, Kent Benson was traded for Bob Lanier. So three top 5 draft picks by the Bucks turned into Moncrief, Johnson, and Lanier. Those high draft picks were just a bit important wouldn't you say in all those years of fun Bucks basketball to watch?

Hell, even though Big Dog/Ray Allen were never superstars, their high picks gave us at least a little run of success. Kareem obviously did wonders after being picked first overall.

So yea, high draft picks haven't always done wonders for the Bucks franchise, but they've also provided the key pieces to the only successes the franchise has ever had.

This is true, but my point was that we could build a team with similar success levels, potentially without having to go the route of the draft.

As I have stated, the draft is almost always the only way....but not 100% of the time. We could achieve a fun fairly successful team going more the route of the Pistons, but I doubt we win it all with that approach like they did.

That and why would the Senator at his age back blow up build from the draft approach? I don't think Hammond would suggest it and I don't think Kohl would back it.

[AussieBuck]

Interesting that people would name Redd over Bogut. I'd be curious to know what the rationale for that is. It's just the usual points per game thing?

Of course.

To a degree. But the league-wide perception is that Redd is the Bucks' best player. He's the Olympian. He's the guy who's played at an All-Star level for the past several years.

I'm pretty sure Bogut is also an Olympian, I even saw him on the court! Redd is an utter liability when he's not scoring at a great percentage, that's not all-star level play.

[europa]

I'm pretty sure Bogut is also an Olympian, I even saw him on the court! Redd is an utter liability when he's not scoring at a great percentage, that's not all-star level play.

Whether you agree or not, Redd is viewed around the league as an All-Star caliber player. I'm well aware that Bogut is an Olympian but he's still fighting an uphill battle in the eyes of many when it comes to recognition as the Bucks' best player. As I stated, I think he's more deserving of making the All-Star team this year than Redd. I'm not sure either one should go honestly, but I do think a playoff team (which the Bucks currently are) merits consideration and Bogut and Redd are the two best players on the team so the light would fall on them. If you went around the league, chances are more people would pick Redd as the Bucks' best player than Bogut because he's been a top player at his position longer. And this month in particular, Redd has without question been delivering All-Star production. He's been sensational this month.

[unklchuk]

Any clear-minded analysis of the evidence shows that this forum has been a total bust in regard to making trades. Literally thousands of posts on proposed trades. Not one real trade in months. Ladies and gentlemen, you are not doing the job. You suck!

I move that we tank this forum for the rest of the season, trade off our veteran members (if another team will have them), and rebuild from the bottom up.

[Sigra]

Playoff, win now move

How? Trade ID #4946698

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Playoff, win now move

How? Trade ID #4946698

I've been suggesting that since this summer! I'd be happy to add an unprotected 1st rounder in '09 and right to swap picks in '10 if they need.

[Rockmaninoff]

Playoff, win now move

How? Trade ID #4946698

What the hell is this? Can you please provide a link, or are you too busy grabbing ass?

Here is my idea again. I think the Bucks would still have a chance to make the playoffs with that trade.

As it stands, this team is going to fade when the heat is on, after the all-star break. I don't want to hear about 'health' either. The last three years the key players on this team have been injured during crucial stretches. It's time to move on if these guys can't stay healthy. If Hammond stands pat, I'd be shocked if they get the 8th seed.

[Debit One]

If you want to see a contender in the relative short-term, you should want this team blown up now. They have no way to get there with the current roster. Even if you trade Redd/RJ later (say offseason or next season), you're trading salary for salary and not getting a star, so you're just spinning wheels. If your goal as a fan is to see a .500 team next year as well, then you should want the Bucks to stand pat at the deadline, and take a $65M payroll into next season.

Basically it comes down to this:

1. We're keeping Bogut, so he's out of any trades
2. Redd/RJ cannot bring back a star player, even paired with anyone else on the roster other than Bogut
3. If we don't trade Redd/RJ now, we take a $65M+ salary into next season, and at that point are trading salary for salary without moving anywhere up the playoff ladder
4. The longer we sit in .500 land the longer we go without a good shot at a game-changer in the draft
5. Keeping Redd/RJ also very likely prevent us from keeping one or both of Sessions and CV

There is just no way to get around it. If the team salary was less, I'd say lets try and make a trade where we can take on some salary and go for it, but we have to go salary for salary, and we have to go salary for salary for all of next season if we keep Redd and RJ past the deadline this year.

We will have at least one more .500ish season next year if we keep them. We would probably be able to deal them after 2009-10 because then they will be expiring. Personally, I don't want to waste the 2009 and 2010 drafts on picks in the 15ish range while Bogut ages two more years.

And I know some will retort with, "why can't we just make other moves to improve the team". If you're not trading Bogut, what other assets are teams really going to be coming after that they would be willing to give up a big piece?

Luke, this is a very good post. I think that you've summarized the situation quite well.

One of Redd or RJ must go for an expiring + something.

[Ayt]

5. Keeping Redd/RJ also very likely prevent us from keeping one or both of Sessions and CV

Who cares about CV and Sessions? Do you truly think those 2 guys will be a main pieces of a championship team in the future? Maybe solid bench/role players, but nothing more.

I don't have any problem trading Redd, RJ, or anyone for that matter. I just need it to be for young talent and picks. It appears to me people on this board assume Hammond isn't looking to move RJ or Redd just because of the fact they are still in Bucks uniforms. But he's not going to move them just to move them.

The bottom line is, I trust Hammond. I trust him to handle Redd, RJ, and any other contract like Gadz the right way. I just don't see a point to speculate and constantly plead for RJ and Redd to get moved when we don't even have the information at hand as to what's out there.

So we only keep players that we know for certain can be main pieces on a championship team? What does that even mean? Why would a team that might not even make the playoffs be worried about whether their young players with talent are "main pieces on a championship team?"

For CV especially, it would be a huge waste of an asset to simply let him walk because we can't afford to pay him due to our bloated salaries. Obviously you wouldn't keep him on a huge deal, but a 3-4 year deal at around 7 million per year would certainly be tradeable.

[Sigra]

Playoff, win now move

How? Trade ID #4946698

I've been suggesting that since this summer! I'd be happy to add an unprotected 1st rounder in '09 and right to swap picks in '10 if they need.

I would add 1st rounder but top 3 protected

[AussieBuck]

I'm pretty sure Bogut is also an Olympian, I even saw him on the court! Redd is an utter liability when he's not scoring at a great percentage, that's not all-star level play.

Whether you agree or not, Redd is viewed around the league as an All-Star caliber player. I'm well aware that Bogut is an Olympian but he's still fighting an uphill battle in the eyes of many when it comes to recognition as the Bucks' best player. As I stated, I think he's more deserving of making the All-Star team this year than Redd. I'm not sure either one should go honestly, but I do think a playoff team (which the Bucks currently are) merits consideration and Bogut and Redd are the two best players on the team so the light would fall on them. If you went around the league, chances are more people would pick Redd as the Bucks' best player than Bogut because he's been a top player at his position longer. And this month in particular, Redd has without question been delivering All-Star production. He's been sensational this month.

Any evidence of that? A link would be nice.

[bayrdbandit]

i say leave it as is. you'd twist my arm only if you could shift damon jones or malik allen for a power forward.

skiles has shown in the past that his teams tend to have bigger second halves to their seasons. i think we have an above average core group that when healthy could make some noise in the playoffs. i realise i'm in the minority, but i'm ok with that. i think on paper we've got some studs, and i think in reality we've got some players that don't look good on paper but play big on the floor.

i think we're just scratching the surface. post all-star break is gonna be huge.