Phoenix is open to moving Amare

[trwi7]

Maybe the Bucks could talk the Suns into an exchange of 2009 picks. I don't think it's something the Bucks need to push for, but maybe the Suns feel like adding Villanueva, Sessions and the Bucks' first is enough youth in the deal and a lower first-round pick isn't of interest to them. For the Bucks, it gives someone Hammond can use for depth or possibly in combination with a player (or players) to make a pre-draft trade.

Even getting the Suns second round pick would be decent. That's what the Raptors did with the Pacers this summer with O'Neal. They wanted the second round pick for depth purposes since they were sending out Ford, Rasho, their first and Maceo Baston and would've only gotten back O'Neal without that second round pick making it really tough to get depth.

[Licensed to Il]

Obviously anything can happen, and that is why we speculate.

But unless someone came up with a home run (Dirk and a first?), Phoenix would be best off to sit back and let Shaq's deal expire and Amare go elsewhere.

This is not directed to anyone in particular... but it is madness how this board sits around and bitches about how terrible Redd and RJ are, and then suggests that they could be the main cog in getting Amare Stoudimire.

How can Redd, RJ, CV, etc be so terrible that this board can not stomach them, yet attractive enough where Phoenix would trade an all star in his prime for them?

By the way, I agree that a "buyers" scenario (Detroit did it when they got Rasheed) is the most likely way that we will get a superstar.

[europa]

How can Redd, RJ, CV, etc be so terrible that this board can not stomach them, yet attractive enough where Phoenix would trade an all star in his prime for them?

For me, I know Redd and RJ (especially Redd) are nowhere near as bad as this board makes them out to be and I know Redd is someone plenty of good teams around the league would love to get as their starting SG if possible. He carries value even with his contract. As far as Villanueva, I just keep hoping the Bucks can sucker a GM into trading for him the way the Raptors suckered Larry Harris three years ago. Time's running out but I remain ever hopeful.

[Licensed to Il]

These are guys with superstar talent that could be available in the next 9 months:

- Carmello (if he does one more dumb thing)
- Dirk (if the Mavs lose in the first round again)
- Arenas
- Ginobli (the Spurs are said to be looking to get younger)
- Baron Davis
- Amare (though I have my doubts the Suns would pull the trigger)

I agree that Amare is by far the most intriguing. Followed closely by Carmello, and a distant third by Dirk.

[Ayt]

[

I'd prefer the second (I'm guessing most of us probably would) but any of the three works for me. The third one (my offer of RJ/Villanueva/Sessions with a 1st thrown in) is better than the return the T'Wolves got for Garnett. Al Jefferson is obviously better than RJ, but Villanueva/Sessions and the future first trumps Gomes and the collection of crap the Celtics threw into that trade. Plus, unlike the T'Wolves in the Garnett deal, the Suns wouldn't be surrendering a first-round pick in the deal.

The Suns aren't getting an expiring like Minnesota got but the significant overall talent upgrade in comparison to the Garnett deal should be a strong selling point for Kerr to take to Suns' management. And even if the Suns are inclined to blow their team up, they still have two young pieces (Villanueva and Sessions) they can re-sign for the future plus the Bucks' first-round pick.

Helluva deal for Phoenix and obviously it's one that makes the Bucks significantly better as well. Hammond would have a challenge adding depth next season without the first-round pick but the draft is expected to be weak anyway plus he may be getting Ilyasova back. I'm not sold on him but if he's as good as many here believe, he could trump the first-round pick in terms of talent and step into the Villanueva role as a scoring PF off the bench. Hit another home run in the second round like he did this year and things look even better.

RJ/Villy/Sessions and a mid round 1st is better than what the Wolves got? Come on man. Al Jefferson alone is worth more than that because it is so difficult to find a player like him. An overpaid vet and two young guys that both need to get paid after this year along with a mid-round 1st isn't a great deal.

Plus, you got it wrong in saying Minnesota had to give up a 1st. They got two 1st rounders in the KG trade, one of which is a likely lotto pick since it was their own coming back to them.

[trwi7]

I don't view Arenas, Ginobili or Davis as superstars. The only ones that would interest me are Dirk and Amare.

[raferfenix]

I would vastly prefer Dirk to Amare. Dirk is a much better defender and rebounder, but much more importantly I think we'd have a vastly greater chance at resigning him. That's one thing we definitely need to enter into the equation, as Amare would probably bolt in '10.

And this is why I think the Suns will end up trading him. The Suns have very few young players, and they are in as win now a mode as they can for as long as they have Nash and O'neal. The problem for them too is that Nash is also a free agent in '10, so they could be losing their entire team if they don't make some dramatic moves sooner rather than later.

I think if they trade Amare it will be for a package that they think will help them win now the most, with very special consideration made for deals where they can also get some young talent for the future. A bucks deal could theoretically do both if RJ blows up there and if they can keep both CV and Sessions.

However, as I said before, It's a huge question whether the suns could afford all those guys. Considering they are a team that sells off first rounders in the name of cap space, that sadly needs to come into the equation for what they'd be trying to accomplish with an Amare trade as well.

[Baddy Chuck]

Something like R-Jeff, Villanueva, Sessions and a 1st could work for Amare. I doubt they'd take much less.

[europa]

I don't view Arenas, Ginobili or Davis as superstars. The only ones that would interest me are Dirk and Amare.

I agree. I wouldn't go anywhere near Arenas or Davis. I like Baron Davis as a talent but I think he's a guy who needs to have the stars lined up just right or he won't get you what you need as he's proving again this season with the Clips.

And ayt, thanks for the clarification. I missed the second first. But I still believe the overall talent the Bucks would be offering trumps what the T'Wolves got for Garnett. But even if it's slightly worse than it's still a great deal for Phoenix in terms of a comparison because Stoudamire isn't as good as Garnett so in theory they shouldn't receive more than the T'Wolves received.

[Licensed to Il]

You can't use the Twolves trade to "set the market" Europa. It was a horrible trade for the Wolves, everyone in the league thinks so. They turned down better offers from Phoenix (KG nixed it), and better offers from Chicago and Memphis (why, no one knows).

I think the one thing we all can agree on, is that every trade scenario is different, and sometimes the team with the superstar wants cap relief, sometimes they want a marketable young star, sometimes they want low cost veterans, etc.

Have fun with your Amare dreams. But I will say it one more time... Phoenix would almost certainly rather play out the next two years with how things are, and then lose Shaq, Nash, and Amare's contracts and build from scratch (free agents wil totally go to Phoenix) then to trot out a lineup of Shaq, CV, RJ, JRich, and Nash... STILL NOT BE A TOP TEAM IN THE WEST, and kill their cap space in the process.

[MikeIsGood]

I would vastly prefer Dirk to Amare. Dirk is a much better defender and rebounder, but much more importantly I think we'd have a vastly greater chance at resigning him. That's one thing we definitely need to enter into the equation, as Amare would probably bolt in '10.

In general I agree, but you should take into the equation that Dirk is 4 years older. He turns 31 this summer.

[raferfenix]

This deal is dependent on the Suns thinking that CV will absolutely blow up in their system. He'd have to be worth similar to what Al Jefferson is worth to the Wolves I bet even.

However, he would be such a good fit there that it's not inconceivable. Shaq needs a PF able to space the floor, and CV would be incredibly benefited by playing with Nash.

The problems are still two fold though: whether the Suns can afford to keep him and/or Sessions, and whether their D improves enough to get them back into contention.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Generally speaking, whoever gets the best player wins the trade. I think if we get Amare without losing Bogut, we win the deal, almost no matter the other terms.

Even if we give up Redd, Alexander, Sessions, Villanueva, Mbah a Moute, and two first rounders...

Ridnour/Lue
Bell/Lue
Jefferson/Ilyasova
Amare/Ilyasova
Bogut/Gadz

...that's a better team than the present one is. Now, and in the future. We can fill the backcourt with 2nd round picks and cheap free agents - they won't need to be stars, just guys who can hit open shots.

[Licensed to Il]

If the Suns let everything play out with their contracts the way things are, you would almost have to see them as the frontrunners to land a pair from the "fabled" free agent class in question. Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Amare, Dirk, etc. Of all the teams with cap space, Phoenix will be among the most attractive. I just can't see them jeopardizing that to bring in CV or RJ types.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

If the Suns let everything play out with their contracts the way things are, you would almost have to see them as the frontrunners to land a pair from the "fabled" free agent class in question. Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Amare, Dirk, etc. Of all the teams with cap space, Phoenix will be among the most attractive. I just can't see them jeopardizing that to bring in CV or RJ types.

Agreed. But if the wiretap says Amare is on the block, then I'm putting together trade proposals. That's just the law of the land.

[europa]

You can't use the Twolves trade to "set the market" Europa. It was a horrible trade for the Wolves, everyone in the league thinks so. They turned down better offers from Phoenix (KG nixed it), and better offers from Chicago and Memphis (why, no one knows).

I agree it was a bad deal. You and I are in the minority in this forum when it comes to that belief. But that deal has established at least some market value for star-type players. And if Kerr can tell Suns' management he can bring back more for Stoudamire than the T'Wolves got for Garnett, that is incentive.

Again, I don't think the Bucks are going to trade for Stoudamire. I don't expect it to happen. Good fortune like that hasn't come Milwaukee's way in quite awhile. But I do think this is the best route to take to acquire that elusive star who could elevate the Bucks to another level or beyond. And I do think if Stoudamire becomes available Hammond has to at least go in full bore and see if he has something Kerr might value. There's no harm in trying.

[aboveAverage]

Man, I would cream myself if we got Amare for Redd and CV.

[raferfenix]

If the Suns let everything play out with their contracts the way things are, you would almost have to see them as the frontrunners to land a pair from the "fabled" free agent class in question. Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Amare, Dirk, etc. Of all the teams with cap space, Phoenix will be among the most attractive. I just can't see them jeopardizing that to bring in CV or RJ types.

See, I think the reason Phoenix considers this deal is because they are going to get hit HARD in '10. They have zero young talent and could potentially lose both Amare and Nash that offseason. What superstar is going to want to go there (or stay there) when there is so little chance for success, and when there are so many better options that will be available (Knicks/Heat/Bulls).

In fact, a big problem for the bucks with this kind of deal is that Amare would probably leave us in '10 too. I think it still might be worth it though, as The Prince and Bogut are both almost perfect compliments to Amare in the front court.

[paulpressey25]

This is the type of deal Hammond needs to make. Or at least try. I concur with most of you guys that Amare would fit great next to Bogut.

But I agree that we don't have the assets. Redd and RJ don't have much value. If they did have even "Paul Pierce" equivalent value, this trade would have been made already. CV has little value, especially with his contract expiring.

[Ayt]

You can't use the Twolves trade to "set the market" Europa. It was a horrible trade for the Wolves, everyone in the league thinks so. They turned down better offers from Phoenix (KG nixed it), and better offers from Chicago and Memphis (why, no one knows).

I think the one thing we all can agree on, is that every trade scenario is different, and sometimes the team with the superstar wants cap relief, sometimes they want a marketable young star, sometimes they want low cost veterans, etc.

Have fun with your Amare dreams. But I will say it one more time... Phoenix would almost certainly rather play out the next two years with how things are, and then lose Shaq, Nash, and Amare's contracts and build from scratch (free agents wil totally go to Phoenix) then to trot out a lineup of Shaq, CV, RJ, JRich, and Nash... STILL NOT BE A TOP TEAM IN THE WEST, and kill their cap space in the process.

I don't see how anyone could think Minnesota got ripped off in the KG trade. What other big time superstar trades have taken place recently? Look at the Shaq trade. The Lakers got Butler, Odom, one 1st rounder (ended up being the 26th pick), and they had the privilege of paying Brian Grant $14 million for three years. Odom also had five years left on a 6 year, $63 million deal.

What were the "better offers" Minnesota could have taken? If KG didn't want to go to Phoenix for Amare, I don't see what Chicago or Memphis could have been offering that would have been better than AJ, Gomes, a lotto pick, a late 1st, and major cap relief. That trade worked out really well for McHale, which is miraculous, but still true.