Joe Alexander is a baller. Why all the hate?

[Octopus Jonny]

I really don't get all the Joe Alexander hate on here. Joe is averaging less than 12 MPG and has a lot of competition at his position for minutes. The potential is clearly there, the minutes are not. Does that make him a busted pick? No. I don't get some of the hate thrown around on here.

I know that Per 36 stats aren't the greatest measurement, but here's how Joe stacks up with the top 10 draft picks on a Per 36 basis, sorted by draft number. (Minutes played included to show the size of sample)


1. Derrick Rose

MP FG% 3P% FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1637 .458 .283 .790 0.9 2.5 3.4 6.0 0.8 0.2 2.5 1.6 16.1

2. Michael Beasely

1007 .454 .381 .737 2.0 5.6 7.6 1.3 0.9 0.6 2.6 3.6 19.4

3. OctopusJonny Mayo

1579 .440 .370 .876 0.8 3.1 3.9 2.7 1.0 0.1 2.4 2.1 18.2

4. Russell Westbrook

1370 .410 .328 .792 2.4 2.5 4.9 5.6 1.7 0.2 3.5 2.7 16.7

5. Kevin Love

932 .431 .077 .741 5.4 7.7 13.1 1.8 0.7 1.0 2.4 3.6 13.5

6. Danilo Gallinari (These numbers really don't mean anything)

79 .500 .462 1.000 0.9 4.1 5.0 2.7 1.4 1.4 1.8 5.5 17.3

7. Eric Gordon

1327 .439 .360 .861 0.5 2.1 2.7 2.6 1.2 0.5 2.0 2.5 15.4

8. Joe Alexander

389 .427 .370 .725 2.8 3.6 6.4 1.8 0.6 1.3 2.8 5.2 14.0

9. D.J Augustin

1079 .398 .392 .916 0.3 2.0 2.3 5.2 0.7 0.0 2.5 2.7 15.3

10. Brook Lopez (who is most definitely NOT a PF that would work well with Bogut)

1280 .482 .000 .814 3.5 6.2 9.7 0.9 0.7 2.4 2.2 3.7 13.8

From this you can see that with the exception of Gallinari, Joe Alexander is the only top 10 pick that hasn't had the same opportunity in terms of minutes played to show his stuff. I think that when given minutes similar to what the other top 10 picks are getting, his numbers will speak for themselves. He's not had the same amount of on court time to fix some of the rookie errors he's just now starting to get the chance to encounter. This kid has TONS of potential. He is an absolute BEAST of an athlete and that will only get better as he continues to train as an NBA player. I haven't seen anything to dislike about his jumper, he looks pretty smooth on his shot.

Mbah a Moute's pleasant surprise of playing level has been a major factor in limiting Alexander's minutes, and there can most definitely be an argument made on the side that drafting two players that play the same position is plain stupid. What this also means is that Alexander is playing two of the better defensive SF's in the league in practice every day. Alexander is raw, Hammond knows this, and he brought in 2 great sparring partners to polish him up.

I'll post Mbah a Moute's per 36 numbers too, just because I get so giddy thinking about how awesome this guy is, especially for a second rounder.

1205 .453 .000 .770 3.3 5.3 8.6 1.3 1.4 0.8 2.0 4.0 10.4

Also, looking at the Fresh Prince's numbers, I can see why Hammond said he sees him as a PF. Luc has only taken 3 triples this season and clanged on all of them. It doesn't appear that he has that kind of range on his shot at this point. Joe Alexander at SF and LRMaM at PF could very reasonably be our starting forwards in 2 years when RJ is gone. If LRMaM adds a bit of bulk he could definitely handle the more physical 4's in the league and he has done a solid job, in my opinion, of guarding larger 4's he's faced.

[Octopus Jonny]

Also, these numbers are from basketball-reference.com and are accurate as of the morning of 1-24-09.

[jeremyd236]

It's not that Joe won't be good or anything like that. But it's pretty clear that if he IS going to be a good player someday, he's at least 2-3 years off. His game looks like it needs a little work.

We're mostly bitter because a lot of us wanted Lopez before the draft...and now we definitely do. He is NBA ready and he's proven to "be a ton" (J-Mac) in many games.

Considering we just traded for RJ, most of us here thought drafting Alexander was out of the question because it didn't make sense. Then drafting LRMAM definitely didn't make sense.

And LRMAM has been great and everything, but it's pretty obvious our biggest need by far is depth at the PF/C position. Bogut is out every other week (not blaming him), and Gadzuric/Allen/Elson can't get it done on a given night.

With Lopez right now, we'd be a really good team. A simple change in who we drafted at 8 in my opinion could've made a huge difference.

But again, this isn't necessarily hate towards Alexander.

[Ayt]

Who are we talking about? Oh, you mean Haislip.

[Jez2983]

I never wanted Lopez, I was on the Speights bandwagon. That said, in retrospect, Lopez would've been a good pick. I have a feeling most people would've wanted Bayless when he fell on draft day.

JA might be a good player, and we don't hate him personally. And yep, he shows flashes. This team doesn't need flashes, it needs consistent production out of its lottery picks, like we would've got from most of the other picks. And why did we draft a SF when we got RJ? He ain't a PF, and will never be.

If we wanted a PF, we should've picked Speights. So what if he's CV MkII - we probably lose CV at the end of the year anyway.

[Octopus Jonny]

Who are we talking about? Oh, you mean Haislip.

If Haislip had a nice jumper then maybe we could make more comparisons.

[jerrod]

your adjustment to per minute stats is exactly the problem. we've got 2 12+ million dollar wings, we're win now, and our lottery pick barely sees the court. while that's not entirely his fault, it's why we don't like him

[trwi7]

What the hell is a baller? Someone who plays basketball. Jerrod's a baller too, doesn't mean he's good.

[coolhandluke121]

JA = Marvin Williams. There are tons of similarities in their size, position, athleticism, skill set, and career trajectories. I'll take my chances with JA on the 8th pick.

I don't care about that pick so much really - the real issue is that, regardless of who they picked 8th, the Bucks should be busy evaluating that player and their other young guys instead of destroying their payroll trying to sneak into the playoffs and get trounced in the first round.

[MickeyDavis]

It's funny, when he was picked most everyone said he was a project. And now that yes indeed we find out he's a project, most of those same people call him a bust.

[jerrod]

It's funny, when he was picked most everyone said he was a project. And now that yes indeed we find out he's a project, most of those same people call him a bust.

we're not the ones who almost used his as a trade throw in

[xTitan]

I like the Marvin Williams comparison

[paulpressey25]

I don't like the Marvin Williams comparison.

Marvin came in as a highly recruited freshman who was putting up 20-10 games occasionally from day one as an 18-19 year old. He could rebound as well, as many wondered if he could play PF.

Alexander spent 2.5 seasons being an unknown only to turn it on scoring wise (not rebounding) for the last 11 games of his junior year in college.

I think Marvin's basketball intuition far trumps anything we've seen from Alexander to date.

[xTitan]

I don't like the Marvin Williams comparison.

Marvin came in as a highly recruited freshman who was putting up 20-10 games occasionally from day one as an 18-19 year old. He could rebound as well, as many wondered if he could play PF.

Alexander spent 2.5 seasons being an unknown only to turn it on scoring wise (not rebounding) for the last 11 games of his junior year in college.

I think Marvin's basketball intuition far trumps anything we've seen from Alexander to date.

I don't give a damn about pedigree, I am looking at the physical comparison and where there games are at coming into the NBA.....both raw, athletes who are 6"8" and about 225...very skilled but raw.

[paulpressey25]

Sure, they are both 6-8" raw athletes. But so was Haislip. The question is whether you have the ability to make basketball moves. The instincts. Marvin had those from day one. I question whether Alexander does. That is a big distinction. Gadzuric has "tools" as well. But no instincts.

That said, I do agree that Alexander has ridiculous physical tools. So, if he ever does learn how to play, he could be a very good player.

[jerrod]

haislip was 6'10"

[Ayt]

I don't like the Marvin Williams comparison.

Marvin came in as a highly recruited freshman who was putting up 20-10 games occasionally from day one as an 18-19 year old. He could rebound as well, as many wondered if he could play PF.

Alexander spent 2.5 seasons being an unknown only to turn it on scoring wise (not rebounding) for the last 11 games of his junior year in college.

I think Marvin's basketball intuition far trumps anything we've seen from Alexander to date.

I don't give a damn about pedigree, I am looking at the physical comparison and where there games are at coming into the NBA.....both raw, athletes who are 6"8" and about 225...very skilled but raw.

Marvin had the major advantage of being only 19 in his rookie year compared to JA being 22. Williams and JA are actually both 22 now.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

It's funny, when he was picked most everyone said he was a project. And now that yes indeed we find out he's a project, most of those same people call him a bust.

I hope nobody thought he would be this raw and still wanted him as our draft pick.

[LUKE23]

I still have high hopes for the guy at least being a good rotational player. He is getting by defenders with ease right now, but he just doesn't know where he's going. He obviously needs more coaching, he's really had one year of focused teaching (Huggins).

But I'd like to see him get more minutes the rest of the year to see what we have.

[Ayt]

It's funny, when he was picked most everyone said he was a project. And now that yes indeed we find out he's a project, most of those same people call him a bust.

I wanted nothing to do with the guy before the draft.