New Bucks Plan?

[paulpressey25]

I actually think RJ has more in the tank than Marion. And if you want an actual asset, Marion is a tough call, since he'll likely bolt somewhere else in the offseason unless you are ready to pay him $10mm a year.

I think though I'd be ready to deal RJ to Portland. I'd want more than Raef/Outlaw, but would settle for that if I had to. Then let Outlaw, LRMAM and Potsie all fight it out for minutes. I'd prefer though to send RJ to Cleveland for Snow/Varajao, but again know that Cleveland wouldn't give up Varajao.

[europa]

I'd much rather have Marion and if people are on the expiring deal front, then it would be a slam dunk in his favor. The Cavs don't need RJ. Last time I checked, they had a capable starter at SF. What they're reportedly looking for is a good perimeter shooter at SG with size - hence their reported continued interest in Redd.

[rapsrealm]

I agree that I don't think Marion has that much in his tank and even though he is a good rebounder RJ gets to the line on a more frequent basis...something the Raps need. Even though Marion has an expiring contract who are they actually going to get in the FA market? The Raps would only have approx 10-12 million dollars to spend to fill three spots if they renounce the rights to the FA's so they wouldn't really have enough money to sign someone like Marvin Williams.

[apdamico]

Say what you will about Redd’s conditioning, but he’s been a nice fit in Skiles’ system and not only has shown defensive ability, but improved athletic ability this season. I believe his conditioning and defensive play also improved because of his Olympic experience and this is not good news at all!

In past years Redd’s had trouble just dunking the ball, this year he’s been not only able to dunk, but able to dunk with some authority and not be injured on the way down.

Now Redd comes down on Ridnour’s foot and his season and maybe some of next season is over. Everyone is saying start the Prince or Sessions at the 2, but Sessions defense sucks and LRMAM doesn’t have the shot respect for a 2.

If we can’t trade RJ, why can’t he be the starting 2? He’d provide much better defense and size than Sessions as the starting 2 and the Prince could start as the 3.

If Hammond can’t trade RJ, let’s all hope that CV’s play commands that any team wanting him in a trade must also take on Gadzuric’s contract. Elston has shown he can backup Bogut and if we have to give up CV (especially the way he’s been playing) hopefully a bad contract like Danny G’s can be included!

Just remember, when Hammond keeps stating he doesn't want to trade CV that only means, if I'm going to include one of our young promising stars; you'll need to take on a bad contract with his to make the deal work.

While it may not be the same type of situation as Yi because Yi had years left on his rookie contract, CV has now proven his worth. Yi is/was nothing more than potential, CV is the real deal and presents much more match up problems and thus has higher trade value than RJ and/or Yi. Just food for thought!

[europa]

I agree that I don't think Marion has that much in his tank and even though he is a good rebounder RJ gets to the line on a more frequent basis...something the Raps need. Even though Marion has an expiring contract who are they actually going to get in the FA market? The Raps would only have approx 10-12 million dollars to spend to fill three spots if they renounce the rights to the FA's so they wouldn't really have enough money to sign someone like Marvin Williams.

If the Raps would rather have RJ, that's more than fine by me. I'll happily take Marion to the Bucks. I don't think it's realistic, though, but I'm definitely on board.

[El Duderino]

I don't think the difference between say having Marion on the Bucks the rest of the season instead of Jefferson would add more than 1 or 2 wins, but the fact that he'd be an expiring deal would make it a slam dunk for me so long as in the offseason Hammond didn't do anything stupid and resign Marion to any bloated long term deal.

[austuf]

Bucks/Knicks

Jefferson-Alexander-Jones
FOR
Starbury-Lee-2ndRnd

The Senator has to bite lux tax, but Starbury comes of the books and we're left with Bogut/Lee/CV/'Moute as our frontcourt. We have the cap flex' to sign all three of Lee/CV/Sessions + Redd's insurance

The Knicks get a young (relatively cheap) prospect in Alexander and RJ, a proven winner who would look good next to Bosh/Wade after the 2010 bonnanza. Jones expiring ensures them that bit of cap flex' to compensate for RJ's contract, which still comes off the books in just two years. This could also be a benefit to the Knicks signing FA's to escalating contracts.

And,

If it's true that the rest of the league considers Milwaukee to be basketball purgatory, it would allow the Knicks to give Starbury the big F-U send off to a non-playoff contender.

Bogut/Lee//Gadz
CV/Lee/'Moute
'Moute/CV/Bell
Sessions/Bell/Lue
Ridnour/Session/Lue

Would anyone do this or is it just pipe dreaming?

[oshmeehan]

Bucks/Knicks

Jefferson-Alexander-Jones
FOR
Starbury-Lee-2ndRnd

The Senator has to bite lux tax, but Starbury comes of the books and we're left with Bogut/Lee/CV/'Moute as our frontcourt. We have the cap flex' to sign all three of Lee/CV/Sessions + Redd's insurance

The Knicks get a young (relatively cheap) prospect in Alexander and RJ, a proven winner who would look good next to Bosh/Wade after the 2010 bonnanza. Jones expiring ensures them that bit of cap flex' to compensate for RJ's contract, which still comes off the books in just two years. This could also be a benefit to the Knicks signing FA's to escalating contracts.

And,

If it's true that the rest of the league considers Milwaukee to be basketball purgatory, it would allow the Knicks to give Starbury the big F-U send off to a non-playoff contender.

Bogut/Lee//Gadz
CV/Lee/'Moute
'Moute/CV/Bell
Sessions/Bell/Lue
Ridnour/Session/Lue

Would anyone do this or is it just pipe dreaming?

I'd for sure do it if we definately would be able to get Lee to re-sign

[Kerb Hohl]

rafer, I think if Hammond trades RJ he's giving up on the season. To me, that's tanking. The Bucks' season might be over anyway right now given Redd's injury but if RJ is traded then Hammond is acknowledging that the season is over. To me, that's another lost season and indicates the Bucks are going nowhere. I realize at this time given this latest turn of events, it may be the most prudent move for the team to make. In fact, I'd endorse an RJ trade to Portland if the return was Raef and either Fernandez, Outlaw or Webster. But it doesn't stop me from being depressed as a Bucks fan that another season has been flushed down the toilet. And tanking for a pick in what most people are saying will be one of the worst drafts in recent NBA history makes it even more depressing.

Not trading RJ equates to tanking next year away. Please try and argue to me in any way possible that this team so far minus Redd for half the season and then Redd not at full strength the rest of the way would equate to anything past 35 wins next year.

If Hammond is not making this move because he's afraid the fans will be pissed about another Bucks season being "tanked" or at least the appearance that we've given up, then he has no desire for success for this team and he is no better than Herb Kohl and his meddlers.

And I know that you can see the fact that RJ maybe should be dealt. However, if John Hammond has any visions of producing a team that can win or at least appear to be "ready to rise", he MUST make some sort of a deal involving RJ or I guess a CV/Gadz deal or something like that.





Oh, I forgot to add that we can sign 2 NBDL guys to replace Sessions and CV.

[power4wardjinx]

I agree that I don't think Marion has that much in his tank and even though he is a good rebounder RJ gets to the line on a more frequent basis...something the Raps need. Even though Marion has an expiring contract who are they actually going to get in the FA market? The Raps would only have approx 10-12 million dollars to spend to fill three spots if they renounce the rights to the FA's so they wouldn't really have enough money to sign someone like Marvin Williams.

If the Raps would rather have RJ, that's more than fine by me. I'll happily take Marion to the Bucks. I don't think it's realistic, though, but I'm definitely on board.

BullSh*&^ Europa, absolute bull*&**. There was a thread recently where you were telling everyone that there were "problems with RJ." Let's hear it.

What were those problems?

And have you discussed those with Scott Skiles?

[power4wardjinx]

I don't think the difference between say having Marion on the Bucks the rest of the season instead of Jefferson would add more than 1 or 2 wins, but the fact that he'd be an expiring deal would make it a slam dunk for me so long as in the offseason Hammond didn't do anything stupid and resign Marion to any bloated long term deal.

Marion can't play a full season either, but, much like Redd's injury as it relates to Bucks players, other guys on Miami's roster get to step up.

[europa]

I agree that I don't think Marion has that much in his tank and even though he is a good rebounder RJ gets to the line on a more frequent basis...something the Raps need. Even though Marion has an expiring contract who are they actually going to get in the FA market? The Raps would only have approx 10-12 million dollars to spend to fill three spots if they renounce the rights to the FA's so they wouldn't really have enough money to sign someone like Marvin Williams.

If the Raps would rather have RJ, that's more than fine by me. I'll happily take Marion to the Bucks. I don't think it's realistic, though, but I'm definitely on board.

BullSh*&^ Europa, absolute bull*&**. There was a thread recently where you were telling everyone that there were "problems with RJ." Let's hear it.

How is it bulls**t that I think Marion is a better player than RJ? Are you saying I'm disagreeing with myself?

As far as the issues, I said they were minor. At this time, I'm not at liberty to post what I was told. If you don't like that, I'm sorry but I post what I can when I find out information such as this. But again, I want to stress that the problems were minor, nothing major, just some little things. The Bucks to my knowledge have been very happy with a lot of the things RJ has done - especially in the locker room as a leadership presence.

And have you discussed those with Scott Skiles?

Nope. I haven't spoken to Skiles in some time. The first time I spoke with him was during his MSU days. I doubt he remembers that, though.

[Lippo]

No team will offer a first round pick for RJ, so if we are waiting for that we are morons.

Wow, what a fall from grace.. the league was saying what a steal he was for Yi, now this?, he hasnt played poorly IMO to deserve such a demotion. I think RJ is still 10-15 in starting SF's. We could probably fetch a 15-25 1st for him at least.

[power4wardjinx]

How is it bulls**t that I think Marion is a better player than RJ? Are you saying I'm disagreeing with myself?

And have you discussed those with Scott Skiles?

Nope. I haven't spoken to Skiles in some time. The first time I spoke with him was during his MSU days. I doubt he remembers that, though.

RJ's not going anywhere.

[raferfenix]

Marion's game is declining, but does anyone really think his defense will fall off a cliff? His general toughness would be a revelation for our team, and his example could have such a major influence on how we play that I think he would both love playing here and would strongly consdier resigning. Frankly, I don't think there is a team in the league that needs a player just like Marion more than we do. Who cares if his offense has fallen off a cliff, this team needs major defensive help and an end ot the soft and selfish play that have characerize this franchise for over a decade!

In fact, I'd easily include CV to Toronto if it's close this deal----they still love him there, and the Raptors would be desperate for front court help after trading Jermaine O'neal. This sort of 3 way trade could also net us a replacement for Redd at the 2-spot. Daecquan Cook could be a great long term fit if we could snag him, but Anthony Parker would also be a huge help.

[ReasonablySober]

I honestly wouldn't care if Marion ever played a second in a Bucks jersey. Hell, I actually hope he wouldn't. He's nothing but an expiring contract to me.

[europa]

RJ's not going anywhere.

I'm not expecting him to be traded. As I've been posting, I think an RJ trade would be an admission by Hammond that he's tanking. I don't think he wants to tank. From the sounds of it, he seems to be strongly opposed to the idea of tanking. If that's correct, then he isn't going to trade RJ.

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

If I'm GM, RJ is gone as soon as someone offers expirings. No need for prospects/picks.

If I were the Blazers GM I'd be on the phone making offers right now. Raef/Webster or similar.

Any deal with Portland even in a three way trade would be ideal. I would do it now like they should have done in the first place...

The Bucks have wasted too much damn time!

[LUKE23]

Without a move at the deadline, here are our trade assets in the offseason:

RJ (14.2M and 15.0M owed next two seasons)
Allen (1.3M)/Elson (1.7M)/Ridnour (6.5M) expirings ($10.5M combined)
Alexander
2009 1st

That is it.

This is with Redd still injured, and Bogut/LRMAM essentially off the table, and of course Sessions/CV gone because of financial reasons ($64.5M committed if no trades by deadline). Nobody wants Gadzuric or Bell's contracts we can safely assume. This also assumes both Elson and Allen pick up their PO's.

So if you want to improve the team via trade in the offseason, those five players and the first rounder are what you have to work with. Get to work.

[WRau1]

Jefferson to Por, Miller/Collins to Mil, LaFrentz to Min. Por gets there vet SF, Min gets instant cap room, Mil gets a player on the same tier as Jefferson w/ a nicer contract and an expiring who is better then DG. Next year you run Redd/Miller at the 2 & 3 and if it doesn't work you have Luke/Miller expiring.