OT - Oh No Mo

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Let's say every coach in the league gets to choose between Al Jefferson and David West, just for the remainder of this year. Forget all about upside. Does anyone choose West?

Maybe it DOESN'T indicate this, but doesn't West getting voted in by the Western Conference coaches mean that not only does one coach in this league choose West over Jefferson, but the majority of Western Conference coaches would?

There is definitely a flaw in the above logic that I can't properly express, but all the same, in order to get onto the team, West had to get more coaches votes than Jefferson did.

I'm with you though. Jefferson absolutely deserved to be there and David West did not, not that I don't think West is a good player. He just had no business making the all-star team this season. I am glad Shaq got put on. I really thought he earned his reserve spot this season.

As for the East, I just don't feel that either Mo or David Lee deserved to be there. I wouldn't have had an issue if the coaches had voted Lee in because they felt like they had to write in at center someone who was playing center for their team, but with as much as J'Oneal has missed this year, Bosh has played plenty of center alongside Bargnani (or if Bargnani is the center when playing alongside Bosh, there just isn't a clear distinction). I only feel that way about Lee because Bogut and Illgauskas both missed significant time, otherwise they would be more deserving.

I don't understand how Ray Allen didn't make the team, frankly, with the season he's been having. Either Lewis, Nelson or Harris should have been left off to make room for Allen. I would have taken all 4 of those before Mo, though.

[power4wardjinx]

Ray Allen not making the team is really the only travesty here. He's having a sick shooting year and leads all guards in effective FG% and threes made, not to mention what he did to the Lakers in the finals. Everything statistically screams it and no eye test in the world says Nelson or Mo or Devin is the better player, and the Nets have been slipping. I realize the coaches were looking for point guards after Iverson won the starting spot, but c'mon. The Celtics big three should have been a no brainer.

Seems like Knicks fans are being indulgent about Lee and would love to snub the small markets, even though they know the backup East center to Howard is not on their team.

Out West, could they have taken any more forward-centers? It's generally considered that West got Carmelo's spot because he was injured, not Al Jefferson's, isn't it? Seems like the best way for Jefferson to get on the team would have been A) the t-wolves could have not been so lousy the first 1/3 of the season; or B) the coaches snub Amare, which probably wouldn't have been a bad idea.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Ray Allen not making the team is really the only travesty here. He's having a sick shooting year and leads all guards in effective FG% and threes made, not to mention what he did to the Lakers in the finals. Everything statistically screams it and no eye test in the world says Nelson or Mo or Devin is the better player, and the Nets have been slipping. I realize the coaches were looking for point guards after Iverson won the starting spot, but c'mon. The Celtics big three should have been a no brainer.

Seems like Knicks fans are being indulgent about Lee and would love to snub the small markets, even though they know the backup East center to Howard is not on their team.

Out West, could they have taken any more forward-centers? It's generally considered that West got Carmelo's spot because he was injured, not Al Jefferson's, isn't it? Seems like the best way for Jefferson to get on the team would have been A) the t-wolves could have not been so lousy the first 1/3 of the season; or B) the coaches snub Amare, which probably wouldn't have been a bad idea.

The coaches couldn't snub Amare. Amare is a starter, voted in by the fans.

And I don't understand the part about West getting Carmelo's spot. Why couldn't Jefferson have gotten Carmelo's spot, if you want to look at as having been "Carmelo's spot"? I don't know that you can really say that it was for sure "Carmelo's spot" assuming no injury. I wouldn't have bet against him earning that spot, but still.
I understand that Jefferson isn't a SF like Carmelo, from that standpoint, but West isn't a SF either, he is a PF.

[power4wardjinx]

Ray Allen not making the team is really the only travesty here. He's having a sick shooting year and leads all guards in effective FG% and threes made, not to mention what he did to the Lakers in the finals. Everything statistically screams it and no eye test in the world says Nelson or Mo or Devin is the better player, and the Nets have been slipping. I realize the coaches were looking for point guards after Iverson won the starting spot, but c'mon. The Celtics big three should have been a no brainer.

Seems like Knicks fans are being indulgent about Lee and would love to snub the small markets, even though they know the backup East center to Howard is not on their team.

Out West, could they have taken any more forward-centers? It's generally considered that West got Carmelo's spot because he was injured, not Al Jefferson's, isn't it? Seems like the best way for Jefferson to get on the team would have been A) the t-wolves could have not been so lousy the first 1/3 of the season; or B) the coaches snub Amare, which probably wouldn't have been a bad idea.

The coaches couldn't snub Amare. Amare is a starter, voted in by the fans.

And I don't understand the part about West getting Carmelo's spot. Why couldn't Jefferson have gotten Carmelo's spot, if you want to look at as having been "Carmelo's spot"? I don't know that you can really say that it was for sure "Carmelo's spot" assuming no injury. I wouldn't have bet against him earning that spot, but still.
I understand that Jefferson isn't a SF like Carmelo, from that standpoint, but West isn't a SF either, he is a PF.

Forgot about the West fan vote. that's too bad, Amare's being kind of a bum this year about his role.

I'm well aware what position West plays. After Carmelo, there are no other small forwards to really consider out west - the good ones are in the East. Amare's a PF/C and so's Gasol; Duncan's a center; Nowitzki's a 7-footer. Where does that leave any room for a fifth paint player in addition to Yao and Shaq? There isn't any room for Jefferson -- and his t-wolves were so bad most of the season, why would he be considered?
The spot Jefferson might have been considered for wasn't available -- Gasol and Duncan were in it.

West is at least a more traditional PF at 6'9". It only makes sense that the coaches thought of him when passing on Carmelo b/c of the injury -- not Jefferson.

[coolhandluke121]

The "all" in "all-star" should mean something. It should mean a star in all contexts, i.e., a true star. If one player is clearly nowhere close to being an all-star one year, and then people are talking about him being a worthy candidate when he's playing at the exact same level the following year, that should tell you that said player is not an all-star by any stretch of the imagination.

It goes without saying that, given the salary cap and the way good teams draft low, it is very difficult for one team to accumulate a number of all-stars. They are systematically distributed throughout the league, and the all-star game should reflect that reality. It should showcase the best talent, not the guys who we already see on tv every week anyway. There are great players in obscure markets who should really be there. Durant is one possible example of a player you could argue should be there. Plus, having more teams represented increases viewership - I know I was much more interested in the game when the Bucks were represented.

If the Pistons really had 4 all-stars a few years ago (some argued for Prince as well!) then they should have won 75 games. That was a joke. Rashard Lewis is a bad choice as well - I believe the coaches may have just voted him in because they didn't want both at-large picks to be guards. Who knows. Either way, Carter and Allen were more deserving.

And Lebron being the only Cav is as it should be. It's a reflection of how much he single-handedly carries that team, and to add Mo or Big Z would fly in the face of that reality. He is the MVP hands-down, and the best player in the world by a wide margin right now.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Let's say every coach in the league gets to choose between Al Jefferson and David West, just for the remainder of this year. Forget all about upside. Does anyone choose West?

Maybe it DOESN'T indicate this, but doesn't West getting voted in by the Western Conference coaches mean that not only does one coach in this league choose West over Jefferson, but the majority of Western Conference coaches would?

There is definitely a flaw in the above logic that I can't properly express, but all the same, in order to get onto the team, West had to get more coaches votes than Jefferson did.

No, there is a flaw in the coaches' logic, and my scenario would frame the situation in a way that corrects it.

The coaches too often vote by wins and losses, as if West should be rewarded for the foresight of being on Chris Paul's team, and Jefferson should be punished for playing with Sebastian Telfair.

In fewer minutes, Jefferson gets more points, rebounds, and blocks, and scores at a higher fg%. It's not a fluke, as he is better at all those skills. The coaches surely know this. Give them the choice of one player for the rest of the year, and they'll choose the one who's better at virtually every skill pertinent to the PF position.

I'd like to ask the coaches who made the wrong vote: "If you trade Jefferson and West, do the Hornets get worse and the Timberwolves get better?"

How absurd is that question? The opposite happens of course.

[power4wardjinx]

And Lebron being the only Cav is as it should be. It's a reflection of how much he single-handedly carries that team, and to add Mo or Big Z would fly in the face of that reality. He is the MVP hands-down, and the best player in the world by a wide margin right now.

Another reality being that Z was an easy choice to be the 2nd East center until he got hurt. They did build the team around Lebron AND Z.

[aaprigs311]

I think he was the least deserving of all then candidates. Not to take away from the good season he's having, but I'm glad he didn't get in. He can sit at home and watch the game while he gets his shoulders waxed.

[europa]

Yep, and you could make dozens of those kinds of examples. The all-star game is about "stars", not good players on great teams.

I agree. I'd say it's about stars or guys have star-like seasons (like Danny Granger this season, for example) Mo's not a better player now than he was with the Bucks. He's the same guy. He's just on a much better team with a Hall of Famer. HUGE difference. LeBron's the only All-Star the Cavs have. I thought Hollinger's note about why Mo isn't an All-Star was right on the money.

[blueedwards]

Injured players that didnt play much but become healthy just before ALL STAR weekend shouldnt be allowed in either. I remember old days of Penny and Hill out whole beginning of season then became healthy for ALL STAR game. That stunk.

[europa]

Injured players that didnt play much but become healthy just before ALL STAR weekend shouldnt be allowed in either. I remember old days of Penny and Hill out whole beginning of season then became healthy for ALL STAR game. That stunk.

I agree. I believe Vince Carter did this as well if I'm not mistaken.

[apdamico]

Interesting point made by possibly GAD that he knows at least one coach that voted for West. Of course that vote could/should be cancelled out by the equal vote of McHale's for Jefferson.

I know this is a potential swing vote stituation, but in most sports you simply can not vote for any member on your own team, does anyone know if the NBA rules are different and you can actually vote for your own players?

[EastSideBucksFan]

I do know that NBA coaches can't vote their own players into the all star game

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Interesting point made by possibly GAD that he knows at least one coach that voted for West

Not personally, just logically. West was voted in, so obviously at least one coach voted for West

[drew881]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

Nelson out possibly for the year with a torn labrum. Mo to the all-star game?

[GrandAdmiralDan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlbArma0_BP79PzAzLu.hfa8vLYF?slug=ap-magic-nelson&prov=ap&type=lgns

Nelson out possibly for the year with a torn labrum. Mo to the all-star game?

It will be a crime if they give Mo the spot ahead of Ray Allen.
I also think Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler are more deserving than Mo.

[midranger]

GAD they are the worst team in the NBA for a reason. To say their top 2 players are deserving of All-Star selections is ridiculous.

It should be Mo or Ray Allen without a doubt.

[paulpressey25]

Mo-Williams......All Star?

You know it's going to happen. It would just complete the circle.......

[smooth 'lil balla]

I've got to admit, if Mo made the all star team i'd be pretty frustrated, being he was the one I wanted to go.

With that said, his comments makes it seem he thinks players should be an all-star by association. Take Lebron off the Cavs, and they are no better than the Bucks, probably worse. THat's why they have the best record in the east. Additionally, the cavs went to the finals, pre-mo, with a lesser cast. This should tell Mo something....HE's not the reason they are where they are. In his defense however, he's been a perfect fit for that team.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

I also think Rajon Rondo and Andre Iguodala are more deserving of a spot this season than Mo Williams.