2/7/09 Chauncey can't pay for Cash and Money post game

[paulpressey25]

I don't understand the gleeful declarations that our lottery pick is a waste and our 7 month GM is a failure based on the outcome of half a seasons worth of games which, before begun, was regarded with the near unanimous opinion that we'd be on the outside looking in on the playoffs. You guys are almost impossibly fickle and greedy at times..

We are. But I think in our defense, we know what doesn't work.

The similarities between where we are today and the last number of years is troubling. We know that the team will not really go anywhere building around some of the leagues most overpaid swingmen. Yet we get another one this off-season.

We also know the team will go nowhere if they keep whiffing on lotto picks, while at the same time getting a pass for doing so because they picked an over-achieving second rounder. We've seen that movie before, and it is here again.

IMO a GM who made as many moves as Hammond did needs to have hit one home run here in his first year. If he doesn't, he probably isn't a great GM. If he's not a great GM, we aren't going anywhere.

[msiris]

Skiles and Hammond are very competitive. If they think they can win this year, they'll keep RJ. If they don't, they'll trade him.

The injuries to Redd, Bogut, and Luke is like a sign. I hope they have had a reality check.

[jerrod]

And a team loss negates everything an individual player does in said game.

This is getting to be pretty pointless. I really don't even know what point you are trying to make.

no, of course not, i shouldn't have thrown that in at the end.

i'm just trying to wrap my head around your logic for downplaying cv's effect on the pistons' defense and how it helped sessions

by my thinking, if they were only worried about sessions on a sessions/cv pick and roll they could easily double to get the ball out of his hands. which is exactly what they did late in overtime when cv had fouled out and it worked perfectly. they couldn't do that with cv still in the game so they stayed one on one and ramon used the pick to get to the rim.

[bigkurty]

If you get 44, 12 and 33, 7 and still manage to lose, you have some serious problems.

I think their names are Richard Jefferson, Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric.

Don't forget Redd. I know he is injured but man a max player who does nothing but score even if he was healthy for this game does not help a team. I have won my fantasy league 3 out of the last 4 years and am in first so far this year and it is because I only grab players who do multiple things well. I would never take Redd for example unless he fell to around the 7th round in my 10 team league. Now some people will say who cares about stats when it comes to winning but I do. Here is why: A player who can fill up the stats in multiple categories can at least contribute to a team winning in a variety of ways. A one trick pony if off that night, immediately becomes worthless since they have no other back up skills. I do have RJ on my team as a disclaimer since I drafted him and he keeps floating above the scrubs left available out of the FA's and the injuries on this team guarantee he should be able to put up better stats the remainder if the season but I have been so close to dropping him multiple times. My choice tonight was to drop RJ, Mike Miller, or AV for Sessions and I chose AV but I am not too sure about it and hope no one picks up AV for the next few days in case I want to change my mind.

[trwi7]

If we can get a good player back for RJ, then how in hell is it going to keep us from being competitive?

I'm just the messenger. For all I know, his "people around the league" is a Magic 8 ball he named David Stern.

[apdamico]

If you get 44, 12 and 33, 7 and still manage to lose, you have some serious problems.

I think their names are Richard Jefferson, Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric.

We played a good team without our leading scorer, leading rebounder and leading assist guy and took them into overtime. This all with a comibined 1 single point from our centers and people are pissed?

Tonight's game was entertaining and anyone who thought we'd play this well against Detroit, with the team in its current state is just wrong.

Why is everyone ragging on on kid that gets 750k instead of focusing on the piss-poor game we got from our 14 million dollar man?

The kid got to the line 21-times and made 18 FT's. RJ got to the line only 3-times and made only 1!!

[bigkurty]

I was listening to Woelfel on the post game show. Don't remember everything that was said, but here are some main points.

RJ's name keeps coming up in trade rumors. There's still a "high opinion of him around the league and he should be able to bring a good player back."

Skiles and Hammond are very competitive. If they think they can win this year, they'll keep RJ. If they don't, they'll trade him.

People around the league are impressed with CV's play this year. He had a kid over the summer, thinks that's part of his maturation.

Doesn't think both will be back unless there's cap space cleared. Maybe one though. CV and Ramon are best friends and Ramon always knows where CV is on the court.

Makes sense. I ran into both of them one night after a game at Notte nightclub on 3rd street.

[msiris]

If we can get a good player back for RJ, then how in hell is it going to keep us from being competitive?

I'm just the messenger. For all I know, his "people around the league" is a Magic 8 ball he named David Stern.

[trwi7]

It should also be noted that we were terrible against Detroit, at home with our full compliment of players and they were without Hamilton.

Sessions/CV/LRMAM/Potsie and Bogut if he didn't have the back injury would be so much more fun to watch than what we were getting with Ridnour/Redd/Jefferson. You knew they had reached their ceiling and you knew they weren't going to get you anywhere other than the 8th seed and a quick playoff exit.

[emunney]

First of all, I think Luc was a home run. But more primarily, I don't understand why a great GM can't have a bad year. There are certain things that nobody can control. If he can't navigate the cap to the extent that CV and Ramon walk and our talent base shrinks, I will be on board with you guys, because that will be unacceptable.

What would be beyond hilarious, though, would be if we traded RJ for salary relief, and then CV and Sessions both got signed to 5 year deals at numbers way beyond what we're thinking about, and we were forced to let them walk out of sheer prudence. That's the only fitting epilogue to the Larry Harris saga, I think.

[trwi7]

What would be beyond hilarious, though, would be if we traded RJ for salary relief, and then CV and Sessions both got signed to 5 year deals at numbers way beyond what we're thinking about, and we were forced to let them walk out of sheer prudence. That's the only fitting epilogue to the Larry Harris saga, I think.

That's better than keeping RJ, imo. There's no way he's worth what he'll be paid and keeping him is just pointless.

[old skool]

The Bucks lost because:

1. They got out rebounded at the end of regulation and OT.
2. They stopped sharing the ball late in the fourth quarter (CV was primarily setting screens down the stretch).
3. The Bucks guards could not stay in front of AI, Hamilton or Stucky.
4. Sessions got tired.
5. Mbah a Moute is not yet ready to play in the NBA at crunch time.
6. The Pistons had too many weapons for the Bucks to defend - Prince, Wallace, Iverson, Hamilton.

Great game by the Bucks. Can't fault anyone for the loss. They were out manned. Not sure why there was such a rebound edge to Detroit - they were so much quicker to the ball for most of the game.

Sessions was a stud on offense. He got to the rim so easily - something that he has not been able to do as much for a month or so. But he got tired as the minutes piled up. And at the end of regulation, he stopped playing point guard and tried to win the game by himself. That was when the Bucks needed a point guard.

Jefferson was OK. He made some good drives to the basket. Missed some shots. Helped stabilize a young team. But he was involved in some odd plays away from the ball - twice he and CV were running through screens, and ran right into each other - effectively disrupting the play being run. They looked very out of sync.

Bogans looked OK. He and Bell played the best defense on the Detroit guards. But you could tell that when he was on the court, it was not 5 on 5 - more like 4½ on 5.

Damon Jones looked as if he was terrified of the Pistons pressure. He passed the ball as soon as possible. Hot potato.

sKiles did a great coaching job. Great rotation patterns, trying to hide the lack of a guard with Mbah a Moute at SG in the starting lineup.

I was very impressed with the Bucks application of sKiles' defensive principals. The Bucks have gotten much better at funneling the ball to other defenders, instead of trying to stop the ball by themselves. This is a very significant development, that could lead to marked improvement on the defensive end. Sessions played better defense in that regard.

But the story of the game was Sessions. He took advantage of Detroit's lack of interior defense. He made most of his points inside. Driving to the hoop for buckets or foul shots. He showed great body control and strength in traffic, leading to tons of high percentage shots. He had all but 9 of the Bucks assists. He got the assist on 12 of 28 baskets the rest of the team made - that is a huge percentage.

oLd sKool

[bigkurty]

Ridnour/Redd/Jefferson. You knew they had reached their ceiling and you knew they weren't going to get you anywhere other than the 8th seed and a quick playoff exit.

So true. Hell Jefferson couldn't win with Carter and Kidd either when they were pretty much in their prime and I am pretty sure Kidd and Carter were way better than Redd and Luke.

[paulpressey25]

This was a damn fun game. It did show you that Skiles yelling at guys who will run through walls for him can be competitive against a number of teams in the league. It did also make me think about trading Ridnour if there is a playoff team that needs a PG.

I'd encourage all of us to try to come up with some Ridnour trades this week. I think it is plausible we could get a guy like Landry/Luther Head in trade for Ridnour. Now we've got our workman PF to compliment CV and we save $3.5mm in payroll for next year.

[jerrod]

i don't know if i'd quite go home run with the luc pick. probably more of a triple. we'll have to see how he can improve offensively before we can judge it like that imo

[emunney]

press, did you see the numbers I posted on DeJuan Blair in the draft thread? That's our worker. I honestly think the kid might be one of the ten best rebounders in the world right now.

[trwi7]

This was a damn fun game. It did show you that Skiles yelling at guys who will run through walls for him can be competitive against a number of teams in the league. It did also make me think about trading Ridnour if there is a playoff team that needs a PG.

I'd encourage all of us to try to come up with some Ridnour trades this week. I think it is plausible we could get a guy like Landry/Luther Head in trade for Ridnour. Now we've got our workman PF to compliment CV and we save $3.5mm in payroll for next year.

Would someone trade for Ridnour though? He's going to be out past the deadline and I know teams can waive a physical, but I just don't see a Ridnour trade happening.

[paulpressey25]

But more primarily, I don't understand why a great GM can't have a bad year. .

He can have a bad year obviously as long as he makes it up in future years. Being a glass half empty guy though, I know how much harder a job Hammond has since he is now stuck with Redd's contract as dead weight that limits his trade and FA flexibility. And we all know as fans the pain of "earning" that lotto pick last year, in a draft where it turns out there were about 3-4 guys we bypassed who would have provided immediate help and given upside. His bad year might have set things back a year or two, rather than just being a bad year.

I do agree though, it would be a disaster if Hammond did clear cap space and then fate intervened and CV and Ramon both got $35-$50mm contract offers we couldn't nor probably shouldn't match. I won't blame Hammond if that happens. I just want him to have us in a position to have that choice.

[apdamico]

Trade Richard Jefferson and try to get back a veteran 4/5 that can shoot and rebound. Mission Impossible, I know, but crazier things have happened.

The 4/5 we need is LaFrentz. Financial flexibility is what this team needs more than anything else!

[emunney]

i don't know if i'd quite go home run with the luc pick. probably more of a triple. we'll have to see how he can improve offensively before we can judge it like that imo

I'm going to extend the metaphor. If taking Durant at 2 is driving a hanging curveball 470 feet, then taking Luc at 37 is swinging at a slider way out of the zone and poking it over the opposite field corner. I didn't see any mock drafts that included Luc's name. I even said it reminded me of the Noel pick (though I liked Noel more than most). Getting Luc obviously does not negate JA busting, if he indeed does bust, but it does make it easier to swallow. Particularly since we then took the initiative to sign him for three years.