Cavs at Bucks Postgame

[emunney]

Well, that does make me feel better. Praise jebus. Hope that's accurate.

[LUKE23]

The luxury tax is not set on the opening day roster of a team. There is no reason why Hammond can't sign Sessions, CV and the draft pick if that is what he chooses to do. If when the deadline approaches next year and the team is sitting at 4 or 5 in the east maybe Kohl would be willing to pay the tax. If the team is not performing up to expectations he can dump salary and get under the tax.

Good post overall man. The quoted part though is actually not accurate. We have to trade salary for salary starting in the offseason, we will be taking back at least 2009-10 salary no matter who we trade, and that is what the luxury tax is figured on. We can't just magically clear salary before the lux tax deadline, EXCEPT in deals where we can trade salary to other teams that are under the cap, then we don't have to take equal salary back. Sadly, those options will be SEVERELY limited.

[emunney]

So when exactly is the deadline to get under the lux tax? Is it the trade deadline?

[LUKE23]

I don't know the date. Technically what jebus is saying is accurate, we could go right up to that deadline and then make a trade with a team under the cap not taking equal salary back to lower our 2009-10 committed salary. I just think the options there will be hard to come by and it's not something Kohl would or should bank on. But I don't know when the lux tax is figured exactly.

[jebus33]

Detroit traded acker and a second to the clippers for a heavily protected second. So it is possible, but you are right Luke it will be extremely difficult. But I did say that we may need to bend over to get it done.

[emunney]

I looked it up. Our salary obligations as they relate to the lux tax are set on the day of our last regular season game.

[LUKE23]

I looked it up. Our salary obligations as they relate to the lux tax are set on the day of our last regular season game.

I'm assuming that is last regular season game 2009-10 to figure 2009-10 salary lux tax.

[paulpressey25]

So when exactly is the deadline to get under the lux tax? Is it the trade deadline?

Effectively yes, since they measure your payroll for what it was at the end of the season. So I don't think they'll measure our payroll until then.

The problem we'll face in dumping salary during the year is that the luxury tax is going to take a bigger nosedive for the 2010-11 season than next year. Who knows where the economy will go, but my gut would say that you might see a luxury tax for the year after be in the $60-$65mm range.

If you buy that scenario, along with teams positioning for the 2010 offseason FA summer, it will be damn impossible to offload much salary at the trade deadline next year. We've got to find a team under the cap that will be willing to absorb some of our salary well before the deadline, before teams freak out at a new and much lower luxury tax projection.

It might be as Paul speculated a deal like dumping RJ at $14mm to take back a Dampier at $11 million and picking up $3mm in the process.

Unfortunately those deals needed to be made back in November and December when you had the Knicks and Clippers active. A Redd for Jamaal Crawford/David Lee would look great now, or even a Redd for Kaman and Ricky Davis once they acquired Zach Randolph. Or we could have tried to jam through a Redd to Portland/Cleveland with the expiring going to Sacramento and Brad Miller coming back this way. We had a window there IMO. Then we'd have picked up about $5-7mm of space for next year and had Kaman (if healthy) or MIller as a decent backup big.

[jebus33]

we don't need to find a team under the cap just one with a trade exception like denver had this year.

[emunney]

I looked it up. Our salary obligations as they relate to the lux tax are set on the day of our last regular season game.

I'm assuming that is last regular season game 2009-10 to figure 2009-10 salary lux tax.

Yep. The teams get the lux tax level before the season now (they didn't always), and the team salary is measured on the last day of that team's regular season.

[paulpressey25]

It really is going to come down to us having to either pay the tax, give up an asset or two, or find some sucker trade with RJ where you trade him for some guy or combination of guys making about $3.5mm a year less than him.....to pick up $3.5mm in space. There are no other alternatives here.

It was hard to watch Wally tonight as he looked like just and awful player on the court with that Ben Stiller mask. I can see how giving away RJ for that would have turned Hammond's stomach and that of most casual fans. But, we probably needed to make the deal unless Kohl is going to pay the tax to an extent to try and keep CV.

[LUKE23]

Ok, so basically, if we're sitting above the lux tax threshold mid February, we'd either have to trade some players for trade exceptions or trade some players to teams under the cap that can absorb salary to get back under the threshold. And all the while, the teams we are trading with know exactly why we have to make those trades.

[paul]

"CV Walks for nothing" is going to be the new "Brook Lopez"

Varajao had one heck of a game. When he was in there, he was frustrating the crap out of CV and our interior offense was poor. When AV was out, we had a much easier time scoring. AV is a flopper, but one heck of a player. I'd take him 10 times out of 10 over Battier as an intangibles guy.

Sparky on the postgame show thinks Ramon gets stage fright when he knows that Skiles buddy Ridnour is going to get minutes if Ramon makes one mistake. There might be something to that.

RJ.....meh. He was playing for the trade it seems after tonight's crap game.

Agreed on Varajao Press, though not on the Battier bit. I can't stand the guy, but he gives the Cavs exactly what they need. That dive on the CV play was honestly laughable though, he'll be hearing about that from opposition players on court for the rest of the season.

If tonight's game highlights anything it's the reason why I believe the Cavs would consider the kind of deal I proposed in the 'build your bucks' thread. Varajao is the obvious replacement for Big Ben and it looks like Hickson is capable of providing AV's backup minutes.

Tonight's game also highlights why the Cavs would not look forward to a playoff series against us with Bogut. They'd be favorites for sure, but tonight it took one of the most amazing individual 5 minutes of basketball I've ever seen to beat us - and we were still right in it with 5 minutes to play without our best player.

The RJ thing is pretty laughable Press, he had a below average game but it wasn't THAT bad and the effort and intensity was still there. What you saw was a guy who got into some foul trouble, couldn't quite find his range and got lit up like a christmas tree by the best player in the world despite having a hand in his face most of the time. It's a big club, RJ is hardly alone. If he comes out with no effort and no intensity I'll be concerned, that wasn't the case tonight.

[rilamann]

The reality is when Hammond took over he had 2 choices, blow it up or begin to build a winning team and a winning culture until the bad contracts on the roster expire. I know you all say no free agents will go to Mil but there is a much greater chance for a playoff team with a positive culture to get a player than a team that has been in the lottery 5 years in a row and a losing culture that will take years fix.

Great point,I agree 100% and I was actually talking about this very thing with my cousin who is more of a casual Bucks fan during tonights game.

We where talking big name free agents and star players ect and he was saying no big name FA would ever sign with the Bucks.I explained to him that a big name FA isnt going to look at a poorly coached team thats won 25/30 games and say ''wow I could sign there and help improve that team to 35 wins''.

But if you draft well and sign some decent role players and hire a solid coach and lets say you win 45 games and have a playoff series and show some promise now that big name free agent might say ''That team won 45 games and is on the rise,I could go there and help get them over the hump''.

Granted Milwaukee isnt a hot spot for free agents but I think if the Bucks got on the right track and changed the culture into a positive one Bucks fans would be suprized at free agents that would be willing to sign in Milwaukee.


Its kind of like Reggie White when he signed with the Packers.Reggie signed with the Packers in 1993 because he saw a team on the rise that was moving in the right direction.

[paulpressey25]

Ok, so basically, if we're sitting above the lux tax threshold mid February, we'd either have to trade some players for trade exceptions or trade some players to teams under the cap that can absorb salary to get back under the threshold. And all the while, the teams we are trading with know exactly why we have to make those trades.

And the third option is make a trade where the other team takes the allowable additional total salary coming back maximum of 25% plus $100,000 or whatever that keeps the trade within cap guidelines.

Here would be another example. RJ for Monta Ellis at the trade deadline next year. That would pick us up $3mm. The Warriors might do it because they might rather deal with RJ's last year at $15mm rather than Monta's remaining four years at $44 million.

I picked an ugly example for our behalf, only because it's going to be an ugly trade like that most likely. One that will save us only about $3mm or so.

[Max Green]

Nice, Sportcenter is opening with Lebron destroying us.

[paul]

Here's some quotes from tonite's game:

When reporters asked Charlie V. about the ejection, this was his reply:

"He got in my face," Villanueva said. "I don't appreciate that. I just don't appreciate people getting in my face. That's all I'm going to say."

Here's Skiles reply:

Said Skiles: "I thought it was the right call because it (Villanueva's shove) was up above the neck. I just hope they'll launch an investigation on the sniper that shot Varejao. I thought there was some acting involved."

Lmao.....Priceless!!! Varejao is a BIG time flopper!!

Gotta love Skiles.

[jebus33]

or make a couple of small trades in the off season that can save maybe 1 or 2 million, maybe Elson opts out to go to a contender, depending on the salaries that Sessions and CV get this off season it is possible. I am not saying that we are not in a very bad place right now, but there are options if Hammond is any good. The sky isn't falling yet.

[paulpressey25]

Paul, I don't think Redd is tradeable. I think it would be an RJ move if that type of move occurred.

Another one could be RJ to Dallas for Jason Terry and Antoine Wright. We'd have to deal with Terry's extra year, but again that picks us up that $3 million. But I'd just hope Kohl wasn't in to making trades like that to save $6-10 million. He'd lose it anyways with the extra salary guys like Terry or Ellis would command.

[emunney]

Classic quote from Skiles. Alright, I'll watch this team again.