Bucks-Nuggets Postgame Thread 2/22/09

[paulpressey25]

Luke, you need to be more upset about passing on Brook Lopez than if we lose CV. Lopez plays a more valuable position on a rookie contract.

I don't want to lose CV either, but if Memphis shows up with a 5-year/$50mm offer, then I pass and we don't have to worry about all these cap gymnastics.

[emunney]

Yeah, and rightfully so. Look what he can do when he's not lazy.

But how do we know that he was indeed dogging it all these years in Milwaukee??

His first year he was pretty good before he went down.

His second year, he was unfairly held back so that the Chinese wonder could hog all the PT and limelight.

Now here he is in his third year, finally getting the opportunity to play and is strutting his stuff.

This is interesting. So would you say he was unfairly held back the first part of this year so the Cameroonian wonder could hog all the PT and limelight?

[LUKE23]

Luke, you need to be more upset about passing on Brook Lopez than if we lose CV. Lopez plays a more valuable position on a rookie contract.

I don't want to lose CV either, but if Memphis shows up with a 5-year/$50mm offer, then I pass and we don't have to worry about all these cap gymnastics.

Yeah, I wouldn't give CV that. My cap on him would be 7-8M per year. But I will guarantee right now that with how few teams have space, this economy, and the fact that 2010 is loaded for FA's, that he does not get a big time offer this offseason.

[SupremeHustle]

Yeah, and rightfully so. Look what he can do when he's not lazy.

But how do we know that he was indeed dogging it all these years in Milwaukee??

His first year he was pretty good before he went down.

His second year, he was unfairly held back so that the Chinese wonder could hog all the PT and limelight.

Now here he is in his third year, finally getting the opportunity to play and is strutting his stuff.

Bless you, Duncanfan.

[emunney]

My favorite part of watching the Nuggets broadcast was the Nuggets announcer almost laughing when RJ attempted a three pointer, saying that it was way out of his range, and then apologizing a couple minutes later after having looked up RJ's three point percentage.

Nuggets have the least informed broadcasting team in the league. They're not horrible to listen to until you realize that everything they say is wrong.

[Ayt]

Actually Potsie was on the post game show after today's game and when Sparky asked him about his lack of playing time and probable causes for that, Potsie told him that he himself was responsible for it as he wasn't receptive to the coaching early in the season and that turned the Bucks management sour on him. He said that he is now trying to listen to them and learn as much as he can since he already has himself to blame for his slow start. Sparky later discussed this with Gery.

That's funny considering how big of a deal people made about his work ethic and mental makeup. He's had a disastrous rookie season.

[europa]

That's funny considering how big of a deal people made about his work ethic and mental makeup. He's had a disastrous rookie season.

Perhaps we now have an explanation for it.

[emunney]

Yeah, that's unreal.

[LUKE23]

I haven't completely lost hope on JA. I know many have. If he still looks like he does now at the end of next season, then I will probably be in the majority's corner on him. But there are still things I like; he appears to be able to get his shot off whenever he wants, foot speed, underrated passer, decent shot blocker. Doesn't appear he will ever be good rebounder, and that is troublesome if he's getting minutes at PF.

[Ayt]

Luke, you need to be more upset about passing on Brook Lopez than if we lose CV. Lopez plays a more valuable position on a rookie contract.

I don't want to lose CV either, but if Memphis shows up with a 5-year/$50mm offer, then I pass and we don't have to worry about all these cap gymnastics.

Yeah, I wouldn't give CV that. My cap on him would be 7-8M per year. But I will guarantee right now that with how few teams have space, this economy, and the fact that 2010 is loaded for FA's, that he does not get a big time offer this offseason.

I agree. CV is going to be an MLE guy. The only realistic team we have to worry about is Memphis, but I just don't see them splurging on CV this offseason the way they tried to for a much more established Josh Smith last year.

[europa]

As far as Villanueva, he deserves all the praise he's getting now. He's playing some great ball. However, he deserves all the criticism he received the past two seasons. He didn't play well; he didn't play consistently; he showed an utter disregard for defense and pissed and moaned last season about coming off the bench, asking to be traded in the process. He appears to have grown up a lot this season and I think Skiles' influence is clearly being felt as well. Good for Villanueva that he's finally putting things together. But the only person who was holding Charlie Villanueva back before was Charlie Villanueva.

[LUKE23]

As far as Villanueva, he deserves all the praise he's getting now. He's playing some great ball. However, he deserves all the criticism he received the past two seasons. He didn't play well; he didn't play consistently; he showed an utter disregard for defense and pissed and moaned last season about coming off the bench, asking to be traded in the process. He appears to have grown up a lot this season and I think Skiles' influence is clearly being felt as well. Good for Villanueva that he's finally putting things together. But the only person who was holding Charlie Villanueva back before was Charlie Villanueva.

Agreed. I've said all year that CV needs a coach that holds people accountable. He's not entirely focused, but when bad play has a negative consequence, I think CV really focuses. LK and Stotts couldn't hold anyone accountable for anything, and that is why we saw the garbage we have the last few seasons. But I think as long as Skiles is here, we won't have to worry about CV reverting to inconsistent play. I think he's the perfect coach for CV.

[europa]

But I think as long as Skiles is here, we won't have to worry about CV reverting to inconsistent play. I think he's the perfect coach for CV.

I think that's something other teams with lesser head coaches might be thinking as well. And that could work in the Bucks' favor.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Agreed. I've said all year that CV needs a coach that holds people accountable. He's not entirely focused, but when bad play has a negative consequence, I think CV really focuses. LK and Stotts couldn't hold anyone accountable for anything, and that is why we saw the garbage we have the last few seasons. But I think as long as Skiles is here, we won't have to worry about CV reverting to inconsistent play. I think he's the perfect coach for CV.

I agree that it appears Skiles has been a huge help for CV.

People like myself (and Hammond) weren't just ignoring the fact that CV previously had LK, Stotts, and Sam Mitchell as coaches prior to getting Skiles this year.

The same concerns about Villanueva were present when his head coach was Jim Calhoun. That's why there asn't as much thinking about "CV just needs a good coach" in some quarters.

Skiles deserves an immense amount of credit for CV, but it was CV himself that made that possible. He has definitely matured, and many say that CV having a child was a good help in that maturity process.

[paulpressey25]

I think that's something other teams with lesser head coaches might be thinking as well. And that could work in the Bucks' favor.

I agree. In this economy it would be hard to see a team blowing more than a 4-year/$35mm deal at CV. And if he's offered a full MLE offer-sheet and signs it, I match and in exchange for worrying about how he'll play for 5-years, be glad his contract would only average about $6mm per season.

But then again, if this team gets the seventh seed and plays Boston hard with CV averaging 23ppg or something like that, we'll have the Chad Ford's of the world blowing him up. But that would be a nice problem to worry about come April.

[europa]

Call me crazy but I think the better Villanueva plays, the greater the chances he stays with the Bucks. Kohl has refused to let top talents leave as RFAs who were backups at the time (Redd and Thomas). I can't see how he'd let a starter putting up big numbers who was just part of a strong playoff run go.

[paulpressey25]

Teams looking at him only need to see tonight's game where he fell asleep on that Denver fast break and Skiles yanked him. He still does stuff like that. Then again, RJ did that the other night and RJ tonight just sat there and let that rebound go past him without moving.

[old skool]

Random thoughts from the BC.

The Bucks looked extremely disorganized. They had major problems on both ends.

Offensively, there was a lot of pointing and waiving team mates here and there. They seemed to lack a floor general. Denver was contributing to the confusion by over playing the perimeter passing lanes. Denver's defensive pressure made it difficult for the Bucks to run their offense. As a result, they were settling for too many 3FGAs. Fortunately, CV was hitting most of his.

Defensively they had major problems in the second quarter. CV picked up his second foul taking a semi-intentional foul rather than give up a layup thrown over the top. The Bucks were having trouble understanding which man to guard. That might have had something to do with the odd lineups and relatively new players like Bogans and Gill.

Alexander's minutes were a by product of match ups. JA shadowed Chris Alexander. I was guessing that the Bucks scouts figured that they need someone like JA to counter Anderson's athleticism. Alexander looked lost at times. His head was on a swivel on several occasions. He seemed to not know where to be on the court. He seemed to have little idea about spacing. When he was on the court, the Bucks seemed to take forever to find a decent shot.

I heard Alexander's interview on WSSP. The points that I found interesting were:
1. His admission that he was not as receptive to coaching as he should have been earlier in the year, and that hurt his playing time.
2. That RJ has been the most helpful veteran "by far". During games, on the bench, during practice, after practice, RJ is constantly providing JA with helpful information.
3. That JA feels he has benefited from learning both the SF and PF positions, helping him understand where his team mates should be.

Denver was much more physical than the last time I saw them. Anthony in particular tried to muscle Bell at every opportunity. That really was a mismatch that Denver failed to fully exploit.

I had no problem with sKiles' rotation. Yes, I was looking for CV to return for the final five minutes of the first half. But he ended up playing 38-minutes. I think that he played most or all of the second half. If CV picks up a third foul in the first half, you can be sure that Denver goes hard at him and forces him to defend and probably get a fourth foul early in the second half. This way CV was relatively fresh for the end of the game. Can't argue with the results.

sKiles had to play Gill a little. Ridnour fell and landed on his bad thumb. After that, Ridnour played limited minutes. Gill, Bogans and Bell all played in his place and Sessions played extended minutes. It looked to me that sKiles was trying to avoid using Ridnour. Also, anyone who has seen Ridnour play the last two games can plainly see that he has no shooting range. Too tough to shoot with touch with a wrapped thumb. Denver was sagging off him, taking away his ability to drive, reducing his offensive effectiveness.

Villanueva was hot from long range, but the most impressive play I have seem him make this year came late in the game. Double teamed about 20-feet from the basket, he looked trapped without a clear passing lane to another Buck due to their aggressive perimeter defense. CV bulled his way between the two defenders and barrelled to the basket for a FG. Quick, strong and decisive. My play of the game.

Sessions was strong overall, but showed a sloppiness with perimeter passing. He failed to recognize that Balkman was overplaying the pass. Leading to two easy scores.

Denver looked tired at the end, settling for long, long jumpers. I could not figure out why they were taking jumpers when Anthony and Billups could post up almost at will.

The crowd was sparse. Could have almost all fit into the lower bowl. Lots of empty seats again.

I thought Jefferson was fine. Missed some FTs, but did well overall. Took the ball to the basket with authority when the Bucks needed a good shot. I think that it is a little unfair to criticize him for having his production fall off after the trade deadline. The Bucks have faced three pretty good teams in Chicago, Cleveland and Denver. Jefferson feasted on the Nets, Pacers, and a dispirited Pistons and dispirited Rockets team - several of which were back to back for the Bucks opponents. These last three games have been played on more of an even playing field, even tougher the other way with the Bucks playing a back to back against the Bulls.

oLd sKool

[More Bang For The Bucks]

Charlie Bell played outstanding defense and had great ball movement on offense as they wheeled it around the horn. Bell really puts it on the line the past few weeks on D.

The other game update is that Eddie Gill is horrible. Skiles brought him in for the last minute of the first half to rest Ramon and not have Ramon pick up a cheap third foul. I think the Nuggets outscored us something like 9-0 in that last minute.

Gadzuric also laid a huge, huge egg. This is precisely the type of game where Gadz has to back up his John Hollinger PER and grab 8 rebounds or so.

yep, -9 in 54 seconds

[emunney]

I have heard part of the problem was JA not wanting to do things differently than Bob Huggins taught him to do, since JA reveres the instructions received from Huggins as being what escalated his basketball career and made him a lottery pick.

Well, that's somewhat understandable, I guess. That doesn't excuse him, but if he's made the correction now, I can forgive that.

I haven't completely lost hope on JA. I know many have. If he still looks like he does now at the end of next season, then I will probably be in the majority's corner on him. But there are still things I like; he appears to be able to get his shot off whenever he wants, foot speed, underrated passer, decent shot blocker. Doesn't appear he will ever be good rebounder, and that is troublesome if he's getting minutes at PF.

I agree with this, but I would change the end of next season to the beginning of next season. He's got 23 games and an offseason to make progress on his game. If he's the same then as he is now, he will never be good.