RealGM

A buddy of mine was at the Season ticket holder dinner last night. He sent me an email with the following info. Very interesting. And depressing when 40 wins seems to be the big goal for the next two years.
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Hammond spoke to about 75-100 season ticket holders tonight. He only answered one question about whether the Bucks can keep CV and Ramon. But the answer was long. I took some notes that you probably want to share with your board.

-"We will have to give up an asset or maybe two to re-sign Ramon. But since he is an Arenas designated free agent, the first two years of his contract have to be at the mid-level. We think the mid-level will be down or about $5 million. So we should be able to resign Ramon."

-"Charlie V, we don't know what type of offers he'll get. He could get an $8 or $9 million dollar a year offer but it will be tough."

-"We had no real option to trade RJ at the deadline. One team that would have taken RJ also wanted us to give them an asset in addition. We weren't doing that. The other team was willing to trade RJ for an expiring but we were too uncomfortable trading RJ to that team. It turned our stomaches to think about it. "

-(Even if we can't re-sign Charlie) We still will be very competitive next year. Can we win with a core of Redd/RJ/Bogut? Yes, this year when all three were healthy for 22 games our record was 12-10. Those three players can get us to 40-wins and the playoffs next year. So yes, we can be competitive. There is no reason why we can't get 40-wins and that means the playoffs (yes, he really said "40-wins" twice)

-"In two years when the contracts of Redd, RJ and Gadz all expire, we'll really have flexibility to do things. You all saw this trade deadline how valuable expiring contracts were. We'll see how it goes next year, but if it isn't going well, it is possible we could trade Redd or RJ at the deadline next year. Maybe some team will really value their expiring contract the following year. But even if they don't, we really like our team from a salary flexibility standpoint in two years. With all three of those guys expiring, we'll really be able to do things."

-"You see now some big name veterans like Mike Bibby, Allen Iverson and what's his name, I should know, Rasheed Wallace who probably aren't going to get anything more than the mid-level this summer. You know, Redd and RJ will only be 30, 31-years old when their contracts expire. Who knows, we might be able to re-sign them for the mid-level or some reasonable number. These guys still might be in our long-term plans. Just wait until 2011 because we will have all sorts of options then to change our team once those three contracts expire. "

-(Even if we can't re-sign Charlie) We still will be very competitive next year. Can we win with a core of Redd/RJ/Bogut? Yes, this year when all three were healthy for 22 games our record was 12-10. Those three players can get us to 40-wins and the playoffs next year. So yes, we can be competitive. There is no reason why we can't get 40-wins and that means the playoffs (yes, he really said "40-wins" twice)

Well, every move they have made backs this up. They kept RJ at the deadline even though an expiring was available, to try and get the 8th seed. They did this knowing that they likely had a 8th seed ceiling team next year (anyone that honestly thinks this same team on the floor plus Bogut minus CV is going to contend is drunk as sin).

This has always been a small picture frame of mind team with Kohl, and it doesn't appear much has changed. We will lose CV and not use our pick, and bring back a team that if it's lucky will win 40 next year. And nobody will care again.

Kohl last night was at the game watching Charlie V. effortlessly drop 25 points in a win. Maybe we have hope there that he'll over-rule Hammond. But maybe we don't want that.

This is depressing though. Sounds consistent with what I've heard. He's setting us up for a five-year plan where the underpants part now doesn't take place until two years from now.

John Hammond wrote: "You all saw this trade deadline how valuable expiring contracts were."

Ummmm..........


The Bucks. Where incompetence reigns.

I wonder which team turned Hammond's stomach. Maybe he didn't want to hand Cleveland an NBA title so easily. Or maybe the expiring contract player offered had a Gadz-like contract and we'd basically be giving up 18ppg for nothing.

I can't believe this moron. I really can't. He had a chance to completely rebuild this team THIS year. IN A SINGLE YEAR. He could have dumped Redd. He didn't. He could have dumped RJ. He didn't. Rather he blew the lotto pick, tried to trade our young players, will give away our draft pick and CV (and Ersan). Yeah John, this team will look great in two years with the cupboard bare and out own FAs over the hill.

This idiot is implementing a 5 year plan with 30 year olds rather than 24 year olds. I want to strangle him.

MickeyDavis wrote:The other team was willing to trade RJ for an expiring but we were too uncomfortable trading RJ to that team. It turned our stomaches to think about it. "

Well now we have it straight from the horse's mouth that Hammond didn't want to trade within the division. This part is definitely Cleveland.

This guy is in way over his head.

THE DINJ wrote:I wonder which team turned Hammond's stomach. Maybe he didn't want to hand Cleveland an NBA title so easily. Or maybe the expiring contract player offered had a Gadz-like contract and we'd basically be giving up 18ppg for nothing.

It was Cleveland. Portland wanted the asset (Ramon), and Hammond wasn't comfortable giving RJ to a division rival/title contender.

I'm embarrassed to be following this team. These clowns were thrown a lifeline to clear some major salary and ensure that CV, Ramon, and our draft pick stay. They blew it. The rebuild job should have happened day 1, not 2 years down the line when the contracts of our overpriced wings expire! Did you forget already that we could have dumped 1 of them at the deadline and the other earlier (prior offseason)? It seems someone did..

All the eggs in the 12-10 sample size. Oh. Dear.

What was the crowd's reaction when Hammond went WAY out on a limb hoping for 40 wins the next two years with an over the hill roster, while losing any young asset before finally blowing it up?

Did the 75 fans in attendance get up and leave while ripping up the remainder of this season's tickets?

Sounds like he has a plan. Good to hear. Wait a second, isn't this the destory the fanbase and move the team plan? Damn...

To put it rather bluntly....

If you're not disgusted with John Hammond right now, you're not a Bucks fan.

MickeyDavis wrote:-"We will have to give up an asset or maybe two to re-sign Ramon. But since he is an Arenas designated free agent, the first two years of his contract have to be at the mid-level. We think the mid-level will be down or about $5 million. So we should be able to resign Ramon."

Translation, we'll probably have to give away or pick and maybe JA to resign Sessions.

MickeyDavis wrote:-"We had no real option to trade RJ at the deadline. One team that would have taken RJ also wanted us to give them an asset in addition. We weren't doing that. The other team was willing to trade RJ for an expiring but we were too uncomfortable trading RJ to that team. It turned our stomaches to think about it. "

Translation, we're already sick to our stomach over not getting enough back for Mo, so we didn't want to do it again, even if it meant keeping the team viable or relevant or at least with some flexibility.

MickeyDavis wrote:-(Even if we can't re-sign Charlie) We still will be very competitive next year. Can we win with a core of Redd/RJ/Bogut? Yes, this year when all three were healthy for 22 games our record was 12-10. Those three players can get us to 40-wins and the playoffs next year. So yes, we can be competitive. There is no reason why we can't get 40-wins and that means the playoffs (yes, he really said "40-wins" twice)

Celebrate mediocrity.

MickeyDavis wrote:-"You see now some big name veterans like Mike Bibby, Allen Iverson and what's his name, I should know, Rasheed Wallace who probably aren't going to get anything more than the mid-level this summer. You know, Redd and RJ will only be 30, 31-years old when their contracts expire. Who knows, we might be able to re-sign them for the mid-level or some reasonable number. These guys still might be in our long-term plans."

In case anyone is only buying tickets to see these two, please keep it up? lol

MickeyDavis wrote:Just wait until 2011"

Ugh

I'm calling this now. Assuming the organization magically generates enough room to afford Ramon and several second rounders, the picks will be spent on some combo of the Marquette kids to generate local interest.

"Save the clock tower"

John Hammond wrote:
-"We will have to give up our first round pick and maybe my bust of a pick Joe Alexander to re-sign Ramon. But since he is an Arenas designated free agent, the first two years of his contract have to be at the mid-level. We're praying the mid-level will be down or about $5.8 million. So we should be able to resign Ramon."

-"Charlie V, he's gone. For nothing. Prepare yourselves."

-"We had several real options to trade RJ at the deadline. One team that would have taken RJ also wanted us to give them Ramon Sessions in addition. We weren't doing that. Cleveland was willing to trade RJ for an expiring but we were so incompetent that we thought trading within the division mattered. And besides, I already gave them an All-Star for nothing. "

-Even when we don't re-sign Charlie, We still will be very mediocre next year. Can we finish with a losing record (40-42) with a core of Redd/RJ/Bogut? Yes, this year when all three were healthy for 22 games our record was 12-10. Those three players can hopefully get us to 40-wins (not winning record mind you) and the maybe playoffs next year if the East is still bad enough. So yes, we can be competitive. There is no reason except for talent and injury prone players why we can't get 40-wins and that maybe means the 8th seed, or my job.

-"In two years when the contracts of Redd, RJ and Gadz all expire, we'll really have flexibility to sign more veteran role players. You all saw this trade deadline how valuable expiring contracts were. None were traded for anything. Not even a decline SF like Richard Jefferson. We'll see how it goes next year, but when it isn't going well, it is unlikely that we could trade Redd or RJ at the deadline next year. Maybe some team will really value their non-expiring contracts that expire the following year after the summer of Lebron that everyone is targeting. But even if they don't, we really like our team from a salary flexibility standpoint in two years. With all three of those guys expiring, we'll really be able to do things like rebuild which I should have accomplished this year."

-"You see now some over the hill veterans like Mike Bibby, Allen Iverson and what's his name, I should know, Rasheed Wallace who probably aren't going to get anything more than the mid-level this summer because they're old and declining. You know, Redd and RJ will only be 30 with a trick knee, 31-years old with a game predicated on athleticism when their contracts expire. Who knows, we might be able to re-sign them for the mid-level or some reasonable number because they too are so far past their prime. These guys still might be in our long-term plans. Just wait until 2011 because we will have all sorts of options then to change our team once those three contracts expire. "

I can't even comment on those last two lines, they are already too ridiculous for words.

Yeah, those last two lines are cringeworthy

Anyone who thought we were going to compete next season regardless of dealing RJ or not needs to be institutionalized - we should not be up in arms that he's hoping to make the playoffs next season. This process is going to take time when we have two of the leagues very worst contracts on our books for another two seasons particularly since Redd's injury - when Redd and Gadz (and RJ) expire we will have an insane amount of flexibility money wise.
I don't know Kohl's personality as an owner as well as many on here but it wouldn't shock me even in the slightest if he'd given Hammond a mandate of being competitive (playoffs) while rebuilding - wasn't LH given the 'playoffs or bust' ultimatum last season? I'm quite sure 40 wins isn't the high water mark Hammond is looking for over his tenure with the Bucks, but I'm also pretty sure Kohl doesn't want this team to win 20 games while he waits for Redd and Gadz to expire either. If he can drive this team to two playoff appearances before having a massive amount of cash to spend to add the necessary components to this team to make it competitive at the top end then I don't think that would be a tragedy.
As to the Cleveland deal, I don't blame him in the slightest for not doing it personally, and that's got nothing to do with them being a divisional rival.

I'm worried about losing CV for nothing, but I also think it's a distinct possibility that neither Hammond nor Skiles view him as a long term piece of the puzzle, unless he's a very cheap one.

midranger wrote:To put it rather bluntly....

If you're not disgusted with John Hammond right now, you're not a Bucks fan.

Oh come on, really? If someone disagrees with you they are not allowed to call themselves a Bucks fan

Relax.

So the rationalization if we lose CV will be "Hammond didn't view him as a long term piece of the puzzle"? Does that mean we defer to Hammond as being right no matter what? I would say there is no way his resume is good enough to stay that.

The fact that he's coming out and saying "we can win 40 games" is really telling of what his vision is. Even if you think that is the best you can do, you don't say that to the fans.

I'm not impressed so far with Hammond.

paul wrote:

midranger wrote:To put it rather bluntly....

If you're not disgusted with John Hammond right now, you're not a Bucks fan.

Oh come on, really? If someone disagrees with you they are not allowed to call themselves a Bucks fan

Relax.

They can disagree all they want with other things, but not with this.

Hammond's plan from Day 1, "Wait three years." That is disgusting.


In fact, it'd be nice to change the title of this thread to "Phase 2: Wait until 2011."