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Bucks talking 4-year Salmons deal (Update-page 19)

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If Salmons opts out, what do you do if you are Hammond

Resign him for 3 or more years at around 7 million/year
59
42%
Pay him a hefty raise for a one year deal 10/million maybe
22
16%
Let him walk, thinking we need to keep fiscal responsibility and 2011 cap room
44
31%
Let him walk, and find a younger upgrade in the draft
15
11%
 
Total votes: 140

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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#211 » by PedroGrande » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:46 pm

incontrol__ wrote:Just so long as he doesn't give Salmons 8-10 mil a year. 7 is solid. 6 is great. Can't forget where and what Salmons was before he came to the Bucks, as great as he has been.


Yeah, kind of my point of view as well, with a contract no longer than 3 years.

Kind of OT: In general board you always defend the bucks, and it shows that you actually watch some of our games as well, any particular reason? Jennings beeing from LA is one?
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#212 » by Dobber-16 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:29 pm

On second though, if a players contract is extended before it expires, doesn't the CBA allows a 10% increase only? His contract is for $5,808,000 next season, add 10% and his starting salary would be $6.388,000. Per Shamsports

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /bucks.jsp

His cap hold is $9,643,727, so it would make sense that the Bucks would want Salmons to agree on a contract. It would make it easier for the Buck to move forward next season on shaping the roster.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#213 » by coolhandluke121 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:34 pm

This is acceptable despite the fact that it will theoretically kill the max cap room in 2011. I would have been against it before, but now that Redd is likely to be a fully insured contract it's almost as good as max cap room. Sure, the Bucks can't go and sign someone outright, but that's not the benefit of cap space anyway. The main benefit is being able to take back a lot of salary in a trade with a team that needs financial relief.

That financial relief is reduced by the fact that Redd will still cost some team several million next year, and reduced further by the fact that he will still count against the luxury tax. But there will be teams looking to trade a productive player for Redd's insured contract. It's like the Bucks get an advance on their cap space because of Redd's injury.

Part of me still can't shake the feeling that this core doesn't have great upside, though. They'll hit a ceiling and will have trouble adding talent. Better hit home-runs with the Bulls' pick and make the most of the Redd asset next year if they want to contend in the next 3-4 years.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#214 » by Turk Nowitzki » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:45 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:This is acceptable despite the fact that it will theoretically kill the max cap room in 2011. I would have been against it before, but now that Redd is likely to be a fully insured contract it's almost as good as max cap room. Sure, the Bucks can't go and sign someone outright, but that's not the benefit of cap space anyway. The main benefit is being able to take back a lot of salary in a trade with a team that needs financial relief.

That financial relief is reduced by the fact that Redd will still cost some team several million next year, and reduced further by the fact that he will still count against the luxury tax. But there will be teams looking to trade a productive player for Redd's insured contract. It's like the Bucks get an advance on their cap space because of Redd's injury.

Part of me still can't shake the feeling that this core doesn't have great upside, though. They'll hit a ceiling and will have trouble adding talent. Better hit home-runs with the Bulls' pick and make the most of the Redd asset next year if they want to contend in the next 3-4 years.

You're correct about the cap space. I don't think we will be in line to land any free agent worth max money so it's more about just keeping enough flexibility to take advantage of trade opportunities.

I don't agree about the limited ceiling though, Jennings has as much upside as anyone in the NBA. Bogut is playing at an All Star caliber level, and guys like Ilyasova and Moute can still get better. I do agree that hitting a few more draft picks could be a huge boost to the team, but I do like the direction that we're heading.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#215 » by LUKE23 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:11 pm

I'm pretty sure we'd still have a max cap slot if we got Salmons at 6-7 M per year. It's if you add something like Childress at the MLE that we start having a problem.

Only two players on the team would be over $4M per year in 2011-12 if Salmons was our only FA signing of significance this offseason, Salmons and Bogut.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#216 » by old skool » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:46 am

Salmons will not likely take a salary cut. He will look for something of a raise, or at least the security of added years. The Bucks would be wise to give him a front loaded contract to help them manage cap space in following years - if the price is right. A lot depends on what Salmons does with respect to his opt out. If he does not opt out, he can wait another year to deal with the extension issue.

I suspect that the Bucks would also like to retain Stackhouse if the price is right.

If Salmons opts out, the Bucks would have to big holes to fill replacing he and Stackhouse - both playing the same position.

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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#217 » by coolhandluke121 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:14 am

LUKE23 wrote:I'm pretty sure we'd still have a max cap slot if we got Salmons at 6-7 M per year. It's if you add something like Childress at the MLE that we start having a problem.



Probably true. But that would be a skeleton crew next season unless they find some great bargains on one-year deals, with only the MLE and LLE to spend.

I think it would be wiser to utilize the cap space in advance via a Redd trade, because

a) it allows some control over who you're getting as opposed to overpaying for whatever's available on the free agent market
b) it allows you to stay a little over the cap, as opposed to going under the cap in 2011 and having to wait until 2012 to spend the MLE on a needed supporting cast player
c) it allows you to get something for Redd's cap space and use the MLE each of the next two years because the Bucks are allowed to stay over the cap via trades but not if they let Redd and Gadz expire (related to a and b)

Having cap space is all about finding a player that fits. So many teams have been burned badly by using cap space out of a sense of need. If the right player comes along via a Redd trade, the Bucks absolutely have to pull the trigger rather than wait until 2011 in the naive hope that they'll get someone even better.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#218 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:16 am

I'm still at a loss for who we acquire with that Redd contract since it is so large and hard to trade from a size perspective, even if insured.

It seems that guys like Iggy, Al Jeff, etc. would be the players that would fit that expiring.

You could also wait until 2011 and gamble on the new CBA and offer a max-deal to a guy like Horford, who would arguably be the best player of the lot to acquire, but you'd have to really overpay to get an offer out there the Hawks could not match.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#219 » by xTitan » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:56 am

Hammonds does not seem the type to spend willy nilly like Harris....I wouldn't give Salmons a penny over $6 million and try to keep it to a 2 year deal...he is going to be 31...a bad signing here sets this team back...and they still have no star at the 1,2 or 3 spots.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#220 » by Scoops » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:00 am

Who is Hammonds?
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#221 » by BucksRUS » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:29 am

Bucks won't have cap space in 2011 unless they renounce rights to all their free agents. They have an option of using the MLE in 2011 by staying above the cap due to Redd and Gadz's cap holds. This would allow them to save cap space until they want to use it.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#222 » by crkone » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:31 am

paulpressey25 wrote:I'm still at a loss for who we acquire with that Redd contract since it is so large and hard to trade from a size perspective, even if insured.

It seems that guys like Iggy, Al Jeff, etc. would be the players that would fit that expiring.

You could also wait until 2011 and gamble on the new CBA and offer a max-deal to a guy like Horford, who would arguably be the best player of the lot to acquire, but you'd have to really overpay to get an offer out there the Hawks could not match.


You would have to see who these teams sign this Summer on short deals that can be traded with the stars. I'm sure some GMs know this may sign players to match large expirings like Redd.

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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#223 » by fam3381 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:32 am

Dobber-16 wrote:On second though, if a players contract is extended before it expires, doesn't the CBA allows a 10% increase only? His contract is for $5,808,000 next season, add 10% and his starting salary would be $6.388,000. Per Shamsports

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /bucks.jsp

His cap hold is $9,643,727, so it would make sense that the Bucks would want Salmons to agree on a contract. It would make it easier for the Buck to move forward next season on shaping the roster.


He's opting out this summer so the cap hold should be irrelevant given we're just looking at the MLE and Bird rights for our own guys (no cap space). Looking at the CBA FAQ, my reading of it was that they could basically agree to waive next year's contract since he has an ETO, which would presumably allow them to base an extension off this year's higher salary ($6.429 million):

53. In what other ways can an existing contract be modified?

Other than extensions (see question number 51) and renegotiations (see question number 52), a team and player can mutually modify an existing contract as follows:

To alter the amount of compensation protection -- i.e., the guarantee (see question number 93). This is commonly done as part of a buyout (see question number 61).
To eliminate an option or ETO (see question number 50). Note that eliminating an option does NOT constitute illegally shortening a contract, since an option year isn't considered part of the original term of a contract until it is invoked.


I have the same understanding about the 110.5% figure, but based on a $6.429 million salary the annual raises would be limited to about $675k. That would give a max of $7.1 million next year, $7.8 million in 11/12, and $8.5 in 12/13.

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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#224 » by Newz » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:53 am

3 years, $18 million is the highest you go for Salmons, IMO. Anything more you let him go.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#225 » by aboveAverage » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:56 am

Newz wrote:3 years, $18 million is the highest you go for Salmons, IMO. Anything more you let him go.

So you would let him go if he demanded 3 years 21 million or 3 years 22 million? Is it really that much of an abomination to offer him 7 million a year? I think he definitely deserves it. I hope Hammond doesn't have a set "highest offer" of only 6 million per year. It might take more than that.

At this point, the way Salmons is playing for us, he is worth 7 million per year.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#226 » by Turk Nowitzki » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:00 am

Newz wrote:3 years, $18 million is the highest you go for Salmons, IMO. Anything more you let him go.

I just don't think that's realistic market value for the production Salmons has given us. I would be willing to go 3 yrs. 24 mil.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#227 » by pasting_monkeys » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:10 am

Very happy to see that Hammond is pursuing a Salmons extension. He is a great all round player and fits into our system seamlessly. I'd be willing to offer a 3yr/21M front-loaded contract, maybe even a fraction more. If we can get him for that amount then I firmly believe that his impact on the court will outweigh his salary, even when he hits the 3rd year of the extension.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#228 » by Newz » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:12 am

Turk Nowitzki wrote:
Newz wrote:3 years, $18 million is the highest you go for Salmons, IMO. Anything more you let him go.

I just don't think that's realistic market value for the production Salmons has given us. I would be willing to go 3 yrs. 24 mil.


He is thirty, his production will drop off for sure by the third year of his contract... Possibly even next year. He had a similar first year in Chicago and then did not repeat it this season.

$6 a year is as high as I would go, any higher and I think it's a mistake.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#229 » by pasting_monkeys » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:16 am

aboveAverage wrote:At this point, the way Salmons is playing for us, he is worth 7 million per year.


If Salmons recent play could extrapolate for a full season then I'd put his worth at about 9M, he has been that good for us so far. I'm not suggesting we pay him that much, just that is a rough estimate of how valuable his play has been to our team. Given his age and length of the contract extension then yes 7M per year is a good number.
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Re: If Salmons Opts Out (Hammond Update-page 14) 

Post#230 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:20 am

I'm with Hammond on at least trying to get Salmons done now.

Then you can watch the Joe Johnson/Childress situation from a distance and not be under pressure of fighting the Salmons thing on a second front. If the Hawks decide to pay big dollars to keep JJ, it might push them toward the lux tax line and they might decline a 3-year/MLE deal for Childress.

And yes, I'd make that offer this summer if there wasn't some other obvious PF out there we could get with the MLE. I'd have no problems with Childress/Delfino/Salmons as our wings the next 2-3 years. Use the Redd or Gadz expiring and/or the draft pick to get the PF.
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