Bucks talking 4-year Salmons deal (Update-page 19)

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

Salmons is extremely important to this new Bucks squad. He is the main reason we have jumped from a .500 team to a 0.600-0.700 team in the second half of the season. I think Hammond understands that if we lose Salmons, we're back to square one. He'll get him a good contract.

Anyone think that Hammond is slowly following the same blueprint in Detroit? Salmons could be our Chauncey, an aging player who peaks in his 30's and doesn't really rely on his athleticism. Now all we need is our Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. Hopefully Hammond gets that done in the draft.

You got it backwards...and he is not like Billups at all. And if you resign him then Jennings is useless or this is not the best fit for him.
I don't think Hammond's knows what he is doing. And you assume too much about what went on in Detroit.
That was Joe Dumar's show. You all can think and say what you want...I am totally confused as to what the Bucks are doing. Lets see how Salmons does in the playoffs.
But he is not Billups in any way shape or form.

[aboveAverage]

Salmons is extremely important to this new Bucks squad. He is the main reason we have jumped from a .500 team to a 0.600-0.700 team in the second half of the season. I think Hammond understands that if we lose Salmons, we're back to square one. He'll get him a good contract.

Anyone think that Hammond is slowly following the same blueprint in Detroit? Salmons could be our Chauncey, an aging player who peaks in his 30's and doesn't really rely on his athleticism. Now all we need is our Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. Hopefully Hammond gets that done in the draft.

I don't think Hammond's knows what he is doing. And you assume too much about what went on in Detroit.
That was Joe Dumar's show. You all can think and say what you want...

Really? You want to tell me what Dumars is doing in Detroit then?

[sotrak1000]

It still is Joe Dumar's show...and look what he's done...overpaid Ben Gordon and CV and they're definitely paying for it now. If we can lock up Salmons for 2-3 more years for 7 mil a year I'd be very happy. He's definitely the type of player that this system hinges on.

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

This is acceptable despite the fact that it will theoretically kill the max cap room in 2011. I would have been against it before, but now that Redd is likely to be a fully insured contract it's almost as good as max cap room. Sure, the Bucks can't go and sign someone outright, but that's not the benefit of cap space anyway. The main benefit is being able to take back a lot of salary in a trade with a team that needs financial relief.

That financial relief is reduced by the fact that Redd will still cost some team several million next year, and reduced further by the fact that he will still count against the luxury tax. But there will be teams looking to trade a productive player for Redd's insured contract. It's like the Bucks get an advance on their cap space because of Redd's injury.

Part of me still can't shake the feeling that this core doesn't have great upside, though. They'll hit a ceiling and will have trouble adding talent. Better hit home-runs with the Bulls' pick and make the most of the Redd asset next year if they want to contend in the next 3-4 years.

Another great post here...absolutely. I would not lock Salmons up at all until I see what goes down in the playoffs. If he gets this team out of the first round, then fine. If not, stay with the plan...

I would let him walk and bring in a younger player like Iguodala if we can. Bucks get suckered in the contract year and overvalue every player they see once they win a few games.

Just a dumb organization in that regard that wastes a lot of time and money. You let him walk.

[RamonSessions]

The Bucks weren't suckered into bringing back CV. This isn't being suckered, it's Hammond making an intelligent move and extending a player deserving of becoming a core member.

[sotrak1000]

I don't think Salmons is going to single-handedly get this team out of the first round of the playoffs...its obviously going to be a team effort. You can't expect him to go out there and average 35 ppg...the team in general is going to have to pull together and put up one hell of a fight, its not just going to be one player

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

Salmons is the perfect fit for this team. Perfect. If we can resign him for 2-3 yrs at 7MM per, i'm up for it. I definitely woulnd't give him more than three years though.

NO SALMONS IS NOT! Sonny Weems and Jodie Meeks were cheap and 'perfect fits' with Redd until his contract is done, if you like Jennings and were sticking with the 2011 plan.

But Salmons was dumb luck. And since it worked and the Bucks overachieved they will get suckered into keeping him and he will go back to who he is when his contract year is done and the Bucks then become the hunted instead of the hunter!

Then teams will shoot for them and make the Bucks who they are. I am not saying I don't like Salmons but this team is where they are because of Bogut by and large with help from the vets Stack, Thomas and a rookie who surprisingly does not beat us.

But we were better off going the long route instead of this quick fix and moving away from Meeks and Weems who I think will be outstanding players real soon, and going with Stack and Salmons.

It is working now, but both are in their 30's and neither will get us to the NBA Finals but are good enough to get us to the playoffs.

We shall see...

[Turk Nowitzki]

A general barometer that I like to use for these situations:

If MBBOT thinks it's a bad move, it's probably a good move and vice versa.

[RamonSessions]

A general barometer that I like to use for these situations:

If MBBOT thinks it's a bad move, it's probably a good move and vice versa.

It's incredibly difficult to respond, I give up, it's not like there will be any real discussion occurring if I do.
+++
He's going to be hung up on Weems/Meeks for a long time.

[sotrak1000]

Sonny Weems and Jodie Meeks are averaging a combined 11.5ppg this year..John Salmons is averaging 15.3ppg on the year and 19.9ppg with the Bucks. With Redd out as he is I would rather have Salmons than a rotation of Weems and Meeks. Salmons IS the perfect fit for this team right now. Get off your high horse named Jodie and realize that his time here came and gone as a shooter who couldn't shoot. If he develops into "the next Dwayne Wade" I'll eat crow but for now get some facts come back and see me

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

3 years, $18 million is the highest you go for Salmons, IMO. Anything more you let him go.

I just don't think that's realistic market value for the production Salmons has given us. I would be willing to go 3 yrs. 24 mil.

NO NO NO NO NO....you people are talking like Salmons is bringing us a title next year! No no no. You dont go over what coolhandluke said.

Getting us to the playoffs is worth so much, getting past the 1st round gets you so much...but you are talking like this is a finals team with Salmons on it next year.

It is not. So you do not play him 8 mil a year at his age with his history. That is what is wrong with the Bucks and all of you. You get suckered in and do not stick to your plan! His agent may want that but that is not what we should do.

Salmons as good as he has been is in a contract year and is not a 'difference maker' in the form of a title contender. You are judged by what you do in the playoffs. Lets wait and see what he does in the playoffs first...

If he gets this team to the second round he can command $10 mil and you definitely do not pay him that. There comes a point when he can play his way out of town if Hammond is smart which I do not think he is...

But we will see...

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

Have you seen the extension Ginobili just got though? If Salmons has a good agent he's going to start there and point out that Salmons is a few years younger as well. I'd love to lock him up for $6 mil a year just as much as you, I just don't think that's being realistic.

1. They overpaid Manu, big time. That was a terrible deal for the Spurs... But they think they can still compete with the Parker/Manu/Duncan core. I disagree, Manu is no longer in his prime.

2. Just because another team gives a 2-guard a bunch of money, that doesn't mean we should be tricked into doing the same thing.

3. We just traded nothing for John Salmons. If he was in that high of demand, we would have had to give up more.

4. If $6 million isn't "realistic", then I would let him go. There are plenty of guys out there that we can get to replace John Salmons. I doubt he can do what he has done for us for an entire season. No doubt he will be productive, but I doubt it is this productive. Even if he is, it won't last his whole contract, IMO. He's already thirty and he will be out of his prime as early as next season.

Newz forgive me but you dont have a clue son. That was a 'Contract of Continuity' friend, like GM Larry Harris treated Michael Redd as.
They paid extra to keep team continuity and open a 3 year window with Duncan and Parker to chase a ring.
That is nothing like the Bucks and Salmons...stop comparing it. That is why the Spurs paid him. That is not a terrible contract at all. To pay Salmons over $7 million, or to bring him back at all would be a terrible decision for the Bucks if they are using him as a stopgap instead of looking at him as the missing piece (which he is not...) or heir apparent to Redd. Salmons best role is as a sixth man as is Redd's! Production wise history has shown he comes a dime a dozen and can get you so far.

LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT TO YOU....Manu is worth every damn penny he got in that deal! Wake up man. That is is title team with a proven core!
That is exactly what I am talking about...The Spurs can make a run for three more years with Parker and Duncan...the BUCKS CANNOT!
Salmons is nowhere near Manu. He is playing for that paper (money) so what you see is skewed and marred through dollar $ign$. And here is another news flash for you....THAT WAS A GREAT DEAL FOR THE SPURS are you kidding me!?
Manu who is in great shape could have double that if he went unrestricted are you are nuts? He did well to stay in S.A. and they got a hometown discount on him. Salmons is nowhere near Manu's value at all.
Yes he had done well for us and helped us get to the playoffs along with Bogut. But THE BUCKS ARE NOT A TITLE CONTENDER....the Spurs are! That is the difference. And other teams like Orlando would have jumped on Manu if he became availible.
That is why the Spurs did it then. So no no no. The Spurs got off easy IMHO. Manu actually could have gotten more then that on the open market. I dont think you know your players son...Manu is a beast!

Stop thinking every player in their 30's is old!!! All of you keep saying that! 30 to some players is not old!!! Just because a player reaches 30 ish does not mean that they lose their productivity when on certain team in proven systems with strong veteran leadership and coaching!
Guys like Billups, Nash and Manu who know how to play and keep themselves in great shape and play with their heads and heart can play longer and more effective then a younger players who plays dumb or and doesn't take care of their bodies and don't know the game instinctively like they do.

You need to rephrase your statement my friend...the Spurs got a bargain with the Manu deal are yo you kidding? Manu and Salmons...two different kind of players my friend. Do not even compare them!

[Turk Nowitzki]

That last post pretty much sums up why nobody takes you seriously.

[WeekapaugGroove]

What's the mle next year? I would use that as a baseline because I really don't think he's getting a three year dealover that on the open market.

[Mags FTW]

Please just add this to your sig, MBBOT.

[mbucks22]

Where is this list of players who can fill Salmons role for cheap? Name me several 20 ppg scorers who are as efficient as Salmons, get to the line as much, and are as good of defenders as Salmons, while fitting into our system perfectly. If you can find someone like that for 6 million, then by all means, go for it.

I just don't buy it. Eventually you have to pay for some value in this league. Hammond is great at finding bargain basement players, but that shouldn't mean he should be afraid to pay Salmons what he is worth.

Agreed. Sadly though, I guess some people want to be where we were when we traded nothing for Salmons. A few games under .500 and probably have given up on the season long ago. Can you imagine how bad this team would look without Salmons and then Bogut going down for the season? We would have lost the rest of the games in ugly fashion.

But hey, why pay a guy that deserves it when you can let him walk and we can just replace him with no problems? 24 wins in 2010-2011 here we come!

As for MBBOT's latest rant, poor guy must not know that the Spurs are fighting just to stay out of eighth place. That screams title contender to him? Duncan is still a damn good player but he isn't getting any younger. The Spurs run among the elite is way past over.

[BDUB_30]

I do not want to see John Salmons get an 8mil per deal. Theirs something to be said about guys who get buckets on bad teams, no we are not a bad team but we DO struggle to score the ball. Our inability to put the ball in the basket allows for a certain amount of inflation statisticaly for guys who generaly speaking simply dont put up them kind of numbers. My point is, Salmons numbers due to our inability to score consitently are inflated. I also think that Salmon is the kind of guy that needs the ball in his hands alot to put up that kind of productivity, recent history would show that. The idea is to infuse this team with more talent so we wont need a ball dominate guy like Salmons. Unfortunatly were going to have to wait one more year to do that so i can see where their is a bit of a dilema there.


To temper that more, i wouldnt exactally be upset if he did get a 3/24 deal, it wouldnt be an "OMG JOHN HAMMOND(S) SUCKS " moment, but i would concider it overpaying a bit. Manus deal is irrelvent, you dont point out some other teams failure as a reason for your team to make a bad decision.


I do think Salmon is a threat to leave but not at 8mil per kind of money. If some other team wants to throw that kind of paper at him, i say we continue the no bull approach and let him walk. Now if were talking about 3/24 with some team options, well thats a diffrent ball game.


Its a good arguement and it will be interesting to see what happens. This is alot more dynamic then last off seasons extension discussions. Ramon was a no-brainer, anyone with a half a brain could see what was coming a mile away. With Salmons its alot diffrent, he actualy DOES some night things for us.

[WeekapaugGroove]

What teams would even have interest in john?

Heat- if they lose wade and strike out on some others
Boston- at the mle if they let ray leave
Atl- at the mle if johnson leaves
Utah- if they let boozer walk
Outside chance teams- clips,nets,wash

I might be missings a team or two but my point is there might not be as big of a market for him as some people believe. And there's even less teams that can go over the mle to make it happen.

[raferfenix]

I'm more concerned about the number of years than the salary per year.

I may even rather pay him two years at $8 mill per year than 3 years at $6. If he gets an injury or just shows his age increasingly, he could be a tough player to trade and more negative value than if he is overpaid a little bit per year.

[pasting_monkeys]

I'm more concerned about the number of years than the salary per year.

I may even rather pay him two years at $8 mill per year than 3 years at $6. If he gets an injury or just shows his age increasingly, he could be a tough player to trade and more negative value than if he is overpaid a little bit per year.

The length of the contract will be entirely up to Salmons and his agent. Salmons agent is holding all the cards here, if we don't give Salmons an offer he likes then he can just decline his option and become an unrestricted FA. Unfortunately Salmons production with the Bucks has been well reported in the media, and GM's would know that the Bucks mid-season rise to happened just after we acquired him, which may inflate his value further. He will be a good consolation prize for any GM that fails to land a big fish FA. Salmons agent would be stupid not to use this as leverage.

But I'm not worried about Hammond overpaying. He's been very shrewd with his contracts so far, and would rather let him walk than overpay.