2012 Off-Season (formerly 2011)

Post #61 » by **ajaX82** » Sat Jun 4, 2011 3:27 am

I'm going change the title of this to the 2012 offseason thread btw, hope you don't mind Rodya

TSE · Post #62 » by **TSE** » Sat Jun 4, 2011 3:37 am

ajaX82 wrote:
We're just both going to have to move on, k? This is now way off topic and moving to personal barbs, which I want to avoid. Talk about hockey here if you want, but I'm just going to steer clear. There is plenty more to talk about rather than my lack of hockey knowledge. I'm sorry I replied to your post and started this, but I stand by everything I said.

This isn't a post to discuss, but rather a reminder to let it go.

Moving on...

Ok, well try to chat in a respectful manner with others in the future and please refrain from personal "barbs" and other absurd comments that will naturally get a reaction from serious and courteous Red Wings fans that may pop in during this forum.

Rodya · Post #63 » by **Rodya** » Mon Jun 6, 2011 1:04 pm

ajaX82 wrote:I'm going change the title of this to the 2012 offseason thread btw, hope you don't mind Rodya

SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING.

Btw, not hearing a word about Lidstrom for the past month is making me a bit uneasy. I still can't decide if Rafalski's retirement pushes him closer or further from retiring himself.

Rodya · Post #64 » by **Rodya** » Mon Jun 6, 2011 1:06 pm

TSE wrote:
Rodya wrote:Andre Markov, Thomas Kaberle, Ed Jovanovski, and Joni Pitkanen are the possible replacements that stand out most to me.

Ehrhoff and Wisniewski are probably the other 2 top notables that are available D-men. There's a handful more that are possible prospects to the GMs that know those players, particularly a few young guys that have good upside for the future. I think it's possible to get 2 guys off that list so we should aim for that, draft heavy on defense, and then be in good standing there. It's long overdue for us to invest in that position for the future and we have a lot of catching up to do.

I wonder how strong the 2012 FA class is expected to be, because if it's really strong, then Lidstrom would have more leverage to get a healthy offer from us, but if it's not then we might not have a choice but to lowball Lidstrom.

Donnie, you're out of your element.

TSE · Post #65 » by **TSE** » Mon Jun 6, 2011 2:52 pm

Rodya · Post #66 » by **Rodya** » Mon Jun 6, 2011 3:43 pm

TSE wrote:?

The Big Lebowski

TSE · Post #67 » by **TSE** » Mon Jun 6, 2011 5:49 pm

Rodya wrote:
TSE wrote:?

The Big Lebowski

Oh yes I remember that movie, one of my favorites. Heard they were considering making a sequel one day too. But what does that have to do with my post, I take it you don't like those players I tried to suggest?

Rodya · Post #68 » by **Rodya** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:38 pm

Lidstrom is coming back for a 20th season!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/stor ... LHeadlines

Post #69 » by **ajaX82** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:57 pm

Rodya wrote:Lidstrom is coming back for a 20th season!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/stor ... LHeadlines

Excellent! I know I was positive he wasn't coming back, but I think Rafalski retiring and the Sharks series changed the tides. Wish I knew the money side of it....same as before maybe?

Time to let Ericsson and Salei walk, unless Jon wants to play for fairly cheap

TSE · Post #70 » by **TSE** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:22 pm

I don't approve the deal, 6.2 million is an overpayment. He's not worth it. We can sign new defensemen and it's not like we lose all of Lidstrom's value, because the guy we could sign to replace him we only need to look at the marginal value that Lidstrom is better than him, and then that value only counts for one year. To pay that kind of money and screw up the flexibility and sustainability of having a solid foundation for the long term is just not a good idea. And 6.2 million as opposed to an even 6, like as if we needed to amp up on our end? That's insulting to me and disgusts me, and it's not right. This is a bad deal and we will win less games over the next 10 years as a result of agreeing to overpay him what he deserves and what he's worth. Oh well, at least he's still a good player and we will only lose a portion of the value of this $6.2M contract. I'm still going to hope for a trade, cause as much as I love Lidstrom and am a fan, I just see it as illogical to proceed on these terms, and I'd rather see him traded in than utilized for the sake of integrity of the game and competing the best we can in a fair, logical, and aggressive fashion like the fans deserve from us, not to play charity homage games, there's a time and place to honor your historical players, but the price here is too high. Just another bad decision by our GM that is consistently making us less powerful each and every year.

Post #71 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:40 pm

Nik got paid cause of who he is. I mean how many 40 year old's can put up his numbers and play the mins he did?

I think $6.2 is fair would have liked to see it in the $1 million range :wink:

but that would never happen. I just hope we still have enough to go after some depth at on the back end.

Rodya · Post #72 » by **Rodya** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:01 pm

I don't care how much they paid him. There aren't any free-agents I would've thrown that kind of money at this off-season anyhow. We still have money to play with with Rafalski's retirement. Lidstrom comes off the books next year (most likely) and we may have a chance of going after a marquee defenseman.

Post #73 » by **ajaX82** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:06 am

One of the, if not the, best defensemen to ever play the game deserves every penny of 6 million, regardless of age. Its one year and gives us 6 million to sign someone with next offseason. There is nothing to complain about

TSE · Post #74 » by **TSE** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:56 am

ajaX82 wrote:One of the, if not the, best defensemen to ever play the game deserves every penny of 6 million, regardless of age. Its one year and gives us 6 million to sign someone with next offseason. There is nothing to complain about

That's 6.2 million, if we're considering every penny.

TSE · Post #75 » by **TSE** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:59 am

ajaX82 wrote:One of the, if not the, best defensemen to ever play the game deserves every penny of 6 million, regardless of age. Its one year and gives us 6 million to sign someone with next offseason. There is nothing to complain about

That's 6.2 million, if we're considering every penny. Plus it's not like this is the only money we have given him. We gave him about 87 million dollars previous to this too. 6.2 more at this time and juncture is plenty for me to complain about.

Post #76 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:22 pm

ajaX82 wrote:One of the, if not the, best defensemen to ever play the game deserves every penny of 6 million, regardless of age. Its one year and gives us 6 million to sign someone with next offseason. There is nothing to complain about

Some guy named Bobby Orr says hello! Also Ray Bourque says hello as well. Both of those guys are amazing defensemen. Not to say Nik isn't but Orr is considered by some people as the G.O.A.T. as a player. Detroit wasn't going to get a D-Man half as good as Nik unless we got Webber and I doubt that we would have signed him so I am thrilled with the deal. I think at the end of the day Nik will be a top 3 defensemen of all-time when he retires

Post #77 » by **ajaX82** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:07 pm

xbl_sucks wrote:
ajaX82 wrote:One of the, if not the, best defensemen to ever play the game deserves every penny of 6 million, regardless of age. Its one year and gives us 6 million to sign someone with next offseason. There is nothing to complain about

Some guy named Bobby Orr says hello! Also Ray Bourque says hello as well. Both of those guys are amazing defensemen. Not to say Nik isn't but Orr is considered by some people as the G.O.A.T. as a player. Detroit wasn't going to get a D-Man half as good as Nik unless we got Webber and I doubt that we would have signed him so I am thrilled with the deal. I think at the end of the day Nik will be a top 3 defensemen of all-time when he retires

Yeah Orr is the guy that is probably #1, but I'd put Nick over Bourque honestly. My point was that when you have a guy who is, like you said, top-3 all time at a position, you pay him whatever it takes.

TSE · Post #78 » by **TSE** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 pm

We didn't have to pay him anything this year for him to go down in history, he already had that accomplishment, and we have an entire team and town to be concerned with. It's nice to be nice to Lidstrom, but I think he is getting too big of a slice of the pie. i.e. his salary of 6.2M is excessive and just not good for the team or the franchise.

Rodya · Post #79 » by **Rodya** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:44 pm

^ how so?

Post #80 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:44 pm

Well Detroit is still a upper tier to elite team look at the history over the last 5+ years I mean 2 back to back Stanley Cup Finals and we almost won 'em both. Lidstrom was a huge part of it hence the Conn Smythe and his Norris bids. The guy is a machine, I am happy he's back and after look at the FA crop at the D-Man position there isn't one guy who I would take over Nik right now.

For all we know it could have been the players that wanted him back, who knows what will happen this year. Looks like Jagr wants to be a Red Wing and I think he would fit very nicely (if he can still play) on the 1st or 2nd line with Dats and Zetterberg. Plus there are a few other scrappy 3rd line talents that we could get cheap to help with depth.