THUNDER @ WOLVES Final play-in game Friday April 14th 8:30CT

[shrink]

After all this, the wolves STILL made the playoffs.

I am at peace with the season now

So am I. I don't really think anyone truly believes we're gonna go far with all the injuries. As long as the series will be close and we'll win a game or two, I will be fine for now. Give this team a proper offseason to gel with and find a vet or two to bolster the bench with and we should be able to finish higher than 8th seed next year (barring any major injuries obviously).

Honestly, the only thing I care about is not having to stress about the NBA Draft Lottery for over a month.

Me too! Sure, I felt happiness and pride in our team doing so well on the national stage, but I had an overwhelming feeling of relief when we got to the point that the Wolves wouldn’t blow this lead. It was relief that we didn’t land in the lottery, relief that we didn’t win a top four pick and have to hand it over to Utah unprotected, and relief that whatever pick we gave up, it wouldn’t reignite the talk about the price MIN paid to trade for Gobert a year ago.

Last night, we just got to enjoy Rudy the player, and that has been great.

[lewdog]

So am I. I don't really think anyone truly believes we're gonna go far with all the injuries. As long as the series will be close and we'll win a game or two, I will be fine for now. Give this team a proper offseason to gel with and find a vet or two to bolster the bench with and we should be able to finish higher than 8th seed next year (barring any major injuries obviously).

Honestly, the only thing I care about is not having to stress about the NBA Draft Lottery for over a month.

Me too! Sure, I felt happiness and pride in our team doing so well on the national stage, but I had an overwhelming feeling of relief when we got to the point that the Wolves wouldn’t blow this lead. It was relief that we didn’t land in the lottery, relief that we didn’t win a top four pick and have to hand it over to Utah unprotected, and relief that whatever pick we gave up, it wouldn’t reignite the talk about the price MIN paid to trade for Gobert a year ago.

Last night, we just got to enjoy Rudy the player, and that has been great.

I watch a dominant game like yesterday's by Rudy that puts us in the playoffs and instead of being happy and joyful, I too Shrink am mostly relieved. What ticks me off is how could we make that massive Gobert trade by Connelly & Co in July, and not insist that Conley be included. If you’re going to “go all in", then “go all in” and get the guy (Conley) that makes Gobert a difference maker on the offensive end. Until the Conley trade, most nights, Rudy was lost, was on an island all by himself. His new Wolves’ teammates had no idea how to play with him. So much unnecessary frustration all season by both his teammates and fans alike towards Gobert. I put all this on our 8-million-dollar GM. We should have never been a play-in team in a pretty weak Western Conference. Oh well, on to Denver. Stranger things have happened. Go Wolves!!

[TimberKat]

Honestly, the only thing I care about is not having to stress about the NBA Draft Lottery for over a month.

Me too! Sure, I felt happiness and pride in our team doing so well on the national stage, but I had an overwhelming feeling of relief when we got to the point that the Wolves wouldn’t blow this lead. It was relief that we didn’t land in the lottery, relief that we didn’t win a top four pick and have to hand it over to Utah unprotected, and relief that whatever pick we gave up, it wouldn’t reignite the talk about the price MIN paid to trade for Gobert a year ago.

Last night, we just got to enjoy Rudy the player, and that has been great.

I watch a dominant game like yesterday's by Rudy that puts us in the playoffs and instead of being happy and joyful, I too Shrink am mostly relieved. What ticks me off is how could we make that massive Gobert trade by Connelly & Co in July, and not insist that Conley be included. If you’re going to “go all in", then “go all in” and get the guy (Conley) that makes Gobert a difference maker on the offensive end. Until the Conley trade, most nights, Rudy was lost, was on an island all by himself. His new Wolves’ teammates had no idea how to play with him. So much unnecessary frustration all season by both his teammates and fans alike towards Gobert. I put all this on our 8-million-dollar GM. We should have never been a play-in team in a pretty weak Western Conference. Oh well, on to Denver. Stranger things have happened. Go Wolves!!

DLo and keep Towns happy. We could have kept Vanderbilt, Beasley and one 1st round pick if we include DLo for Conley but we have to give it time to prove DLo doesn't work.

One 1st pick down, two more to go (2025, 2027). I am not concerned with the swap of 2026 and 2029 is top five protected. It was a lot of picks but part of the price was to keep DLo and JMcD.

[shrink]

.Last night, we just got to enjoy Rudy the player, and that has been great.

I watch a dominant game like yesterday's by Rudy that puts us in the playoffs and instead of being happy and joyful, I too Shrink am mostly relieved. What ticks me off is how could we make that massive Gobert trade by Connelly & Co in July, and not insist that Conley be included. If you’re going to “go all in", then “go all in” and get the guy (Conley) that makes Gobert a difference maker on the offensive end. Until the Conley trade, most nights, Rudy was lost, was on an island all by himself. His new Wolves’ teammates had no idea how to play with him. So much unnecessary frustration all season by both his teammates and fans alike towards Gobert. I put all this on our 8-million-dollar GM. We should have never been a play-in team in a pretty weak Western Conference. Oh well, on to Denver. Stranger things have happened. Go Wolves!!

I totally agree with you that Mike Conley (and Kyle Anderson) are needed to truly activate Rudy, but maybe I can ease your frustration why we didn’t include a Conley-for-DLo trade back then.

First, I think Finch expected DLo and Ant to be able to adapt. Both are better overall players than we could have projected a 35 year old Conley to be. Neither could make that leap. Ant, who had little NBA training except next to the floor-spacing Towns, couldn’t figure out how to feed Gobert, or take advantage of his massive screens. Instead, he just felt that it was too crowded for him underneath - like most teams that don’t have a center like KAT. And I don’t know why DLo insisted on making bounce passes that Gobert couldn’t catch. My suspicion is that he was just resistant.

Second, DLo had more trade value last summer than Conley, and that gap even remained at the trade deadline. At the beginning of the year, people wondered how Mike’s age 35 season would go, and really worried about his second year at $24 mil becoming bad money, if he fell off a cliff at age 36. At this moment, I’m thrilled how it turned out, that we got NAW and three 2nds in addition! And for us, when we were already asking KAT to change positions, after he had just won an All NBA award as a center, maybe moving his pal DLo was risking too much that he’d demand a trade?

Third, who knows if Utah even wanted DLo? He was specifically valuable to the Lakers, not just for his game (run offense, but be a useful three point shooter when LeBron handles the ball), but also for his expiring contract, once Kyrie mentioned he might like to go to the Lakers this summer. I doubt this part of the trade could have happened in the off-season, even with the Lakers, when Westbrook still had so much money left on his deal for Utah to waive.

But I agree with the spirit of your idea. If Conley and DLo were in the initial trade, it probably would have saved us one of the picks, and we’d have been able to keep one of Vando, Beasley, or Beverley as well. I think you’re right - our season would likely have been much better, even with the Towns injury I imagine we could have been Top 4.

[Worm Guts]

I’m sure Utah wasn’t particularly interested in DLo. Maybe they would have taken him as value, but they seem more interested in tanking and acquiring 1st round picks.

[minimus]

DLo keep Towns happy

This is the most overrated thing ever. DLo and Towns never elevated each other. This pairing never worked to become lethal 1-2 combo punch. Never. I remember one game when both Edwards and Towns both had 40+ points against PHO. They played that game with Rubio. I can't think about single MIN game when DLo and Towns led the team offense in such dominating and balanced way.

[TimberKat]

I’m sure Utah wasn’t particularly interested in DLo. Maybe they would have taken him as value, but they seem more interested in tanking and acquiring 1st round picks.

DLo would be great help with the tanking part, also pump up his stats for trade value. win-win. GSW formula

[shrink]

Conley and NAW for D'Lo has got to be one of the best trades this team has made!

I agree. This makes me wonder what the all time list is? A few that spring to mind:

McHale: OJ Mayo for Kevin Love and Cap Relief.

Kahn: Foye and Mike Miller for #5 (Rubio)

If we get another good season from Conley and find a way to keep NAW, I think this has to be near the top too. This one has playoff implications.

[shrink]

I've founded a new country called The Principality of Nu Nawland. You are all welcome to join and become founding citizens.

How about “Naw’lins of the North?”

Either way, I’m changing my citizenship, and immigrating there!

[TimberKat]

I've founded a new country called The Principality of Nu Nawland. You are all welcome to join and become founding citizens.

How about “Naw’lins of the North?”

Either way, I’m changing I’m immigrating there!

It's only one game against his cousin but love his energy and cutting already in the Lakers game. I will move there if he can consistently knock down the 3s

[TimberKat]

Conley and NAW for D'Lo has got to be one of the best trades this team has made!

I agree. This makes me wonder what the all time list is? A few that spring to mind:

McHale: OJ Mayo for Kevin Love and Cap Relief.

Kahn: Foye and Mike Miller for #5 (Rubio)

If we get another good season from Conley and find a way to keep NAW, I think this has to be near the top too. This one has playoff implications.

It's extremely difficult yo come up with good ones. Maybe Sprewell + Cassell for one year rental?

[shrink]

It's amazing that Utah threw in a player that was crucial to us clinching the playoffs tonight in NAW...that kid that defend

Conley was amazing as always, now I see why he's loved everywhere he goes

He’s top 3 PG in wolves history already with Cassell and Marbury

He’s not ahead of Brandon.

Mike Conley is maybe my favorite player right now. I love the way he hustles and controls the game. Anti-DLo.

But my heart belongs to Rubio.

Also, how cool is it that we are talking right now about the greatest moments in franchise history? I know a lot of negativity surrounds this team’s inconsistencies, but whenever you are at a point that you are considering the greatest moments of all time, we need to appreciate where we are.

[TimberKat]

That sequence with Gobert a few minutes into the 4th quarter was bizarre. The one where he brings the ball up court, gets his pass/dribble picked in transition, we get the ball back and then Gobert goes behind his back dribbling the ball and then up for the least smooth layup I've seen in a long time. That was basically our season in one sequence.

If not the season, it sums up the Gobert trade. He is great, he sucks, what did he do? Oh, he is good.

[Worm Guts]

He’s top 3 PG in wolves history already with Cassell and Marbury

He’s not ahead of Brandon.

Mike Conley is maybe my favorite player right now. I love the way he hustles and controls the game. Anti-DLo.

But my heart belongs to Rubio.

Also, how cool is it that we are talking right now about the greatest moments in franchise history? I know a lot of negativity surrounds this team’s inconsistencies, but whenever you are at a point that you are considering the greatest moments of all time, you need to appreciate where we are.

I love what Conley has done for us, but if the Wolves lose to the Nuggets and he were to fall off due to age next year, his place in Wolves history would be fairly insignificant. I think it’s premature to be putting him on any Wolves all-time list.

[younggunsmn]

Read on Twitter

This is interesting to me!

I always just assumed that the GM built the car, then handed the keys over to the coach to drive it. This is the second time in the last couple games (Connolly decided to send Gobert home at halftime) that we see our GM is highly involved in the day-to-day aspects of running the team. The fact that Finch gave credit to Connolly makes me think this overlap in responsibilities represents a positive, collaborative process - rather than the autocratic Sachin Gupta demanding Ryan Saunders “make them adjust to us.” Moreover, since Finch is so willing to give Connolly the credit, I suspect this teamwork probably goes both ways, and he has some input in the GM moves. It’s probably not coincidental that Connolly has acquired several players Finch has coached in other stops (did they mention NAW is one last night?) and even with the Gobert trade, Finch was reportedly excited about pairing Rudy and KAT, and had coached dual bigs before.

I think this is a very good thing for the franchise. Many coaches put up huge walls about their little kingdom, and some even view the GM as the enemy (like Thibs vs GARPAX in Chicago). Connolly and Finch both are very knowledgeable about basketball, and their easy-going, “regular guy” vibes might help them share something that helps. It sounds like they are both guys that are open for input, and this can only help create unity for a team that historically lacked it.

It was a smart move, having another guard helps as a lot of our late game woes have been because we end up with guys like Taurean Prince trying to make a play with the shot clock running down. Also putting NAW on Shai saved Ant a lot energy and potential foul problems.

I think it comes down to Connelly having respect for Finch. Finch said Connelly said "hey here's a crazy idea what do you think".
I agree it's much better than Rosas (not Gupta) saying to Saunders, Here's our system I am only giving you 2 bigs on your roster, you can only ever play one at a time, make it work.

I don't think Finch was excited at all about having his system blown up with the Gobert trade, it wouldn't have been his first choice, his first choice has always been to play small, that's how he made his name overseas and in the G-League.
Connelly came to him with the idea and Finch as an X's and O's guy gave him ideas about how he could make the scheme work.

Connelly seems to be very much a basketball guy who is a fan of the game and not an MBA analytics type like a growing number of executives across sports seem to be. It bothers me greatly that he got destroyed so badly on the value in the Gobert trade, and that certainly was not a collaborative effort as the certainly HAD TO BE dissenting voices among the many in the front office/scouting/coaching department around making such a huge change. If not we have problems.
Having people around who will give you the unpopular opinion/play devil's advocate is important at the top of any organization.

[younggunsmn]

.Last night, we just got to enjoy Rudy the player, and that has been great.

I watch a dominant game like yesterday's by Rudy that puts us in the playoffs and instead of being happy and joyful, I too Shrink am mostly relieved. What ticks me off is how could we make that massive Gobert trade by Connelly & Co in July, and not insist that Conley be included. If you’re going to “go all in", then “go all in” and get the guy (Conley) that makes Gobert a difference maker on the offensive end. Until the Conley trade, most nights, Rudy was lost, was on an island all by himself. His new Wolves’ teammates had no idea how to play with him. So much unnecessary frustration all season by both his teammates and fans alike towards Gobert. I put all this on our 8-million-dollar GM. We should have never been a play-in team in a pretty weak Western Conference. Oh well, on to Denver. Stranger things have happened. Go Wolves!!

I totally agree with you that Mike Conley (and Kyle Anderson) are needed to truly activate Rudy, but maybe I can ease your frustration why we didn’t include a Conley-for-DLo trade back then.

1. D-Lo's trade value was really down last summer after his awful performance in the Grizzlies series.
No one wanted him as anything more than an expiring contract.
The Lakers would not have wanted him at that point, they had their eyes on bigger fish and would have still preferred Westbrook to D-Lo at that time. He rehabbed his trade value a lot with his play here this year.

2. Conley has exceeded expectations here so far.
Last summer he was coming off of 3 straight seasons of less than 30 minutes per game, and 9 year low in PPG.
He has also missed a lot of games in his career.
He was seen as a declining player and there was a question to how much he had left in the tank and whether the contract would carry positive value going forward.
We are getting the very best of Mike Conley right now.

I think a lot of why Connelly did not include D-Lo in the Gobert trade was because he still saw D-Lo as a long term piece and thought he could make that work, that we would be really good and the contract and money would work itself out as he would want to stay here if we were winning.

Playing devil's advocate, trading a 25 year old PG for a 35 year PG is also a big short term gamble and maybe he thought there would be a backlash to that in addition to giving up all that future draft capital.
If he would have taken the pulse of the fans most of us were more than ready to move on from D-Lo after last year's playoffs.
Maybe he also didn't want to sell so low on D-Lo. He did get more for him at the deadline, even if it wasn't a lot.

The Jazz also hadn't traded Mitchell yet and didnt know what players they would get back.
Connelly also did not have much time to evaluate our roster in person/get to know our players in person, and that was a big part of the mistake in making such a big move so early.

Getting Conley at the deadline was a huge reason we have been able to salvage our season, even if it took an elimination play-in win. IMHO he has been a much, much more impactful addition than Gobert.

In Hindsight, trading Conley for D-Lo in the trade would have been a very smart move and if it had allowed us to keep Vando and/or a draft pick even better.

Upgrading D-Lo was #1 on my to-do list last offseason and I would have done Conley/D-Lo in a second, but it probably wouldn't have been my first choice at the time.

[Cappy_Smurf]

Honestly, the only thing I care about is not having to stress about the NBA Draft Lottery for over a month.

Me too! Sure, I felt happiness and pride in our team doing so well on the national stage, but I had an overwhelming feeling of relief when we got to the point that the Wolves wouldn’t blow this lead. It was relief that we didn’t land in the lottery, relief that we didn’t win a top four pick and have to hand it over to Utah unprotected, and relief that whatever pick we gave up, it wouldn’t reignite the talk about the price MIN paid to trade for Gobert a year ago.

Last night, we just got to enjoy Rudy the player, and that has been great.

I watch a dominant game like yesterday's by Rudy that puts us in the playoffs and instead of being happy and joyful, I too Shrink am mostly relieved. What ticks me off is how could we make that massive Gobert trade by Connelly & Co in July, and not insist that Conley be included. If you’re going to “go all in", then “go all in” and get the guy (Conley) that makes Gobert a difference maker on the offensive end. Until the Conley trade, most nights, Rudy was lost, was on an island all by himself. His new Wolves’ teammates had no idea how to play with him. So much unnecessary frustration all season by both his teammates and fans alike towards Gobert. I put all this on our 8-million-dollar GM. We should have never been a play-in team in a pretty weak Western Conference. Oh well, on to Denver. Stranger things have happened. Go Wolves!!

FYI, when Utah traded for Mike, Jazz fans did nothing but bitch and moan for the entire first season. It took Mike over a year to start playing well for the Jazz. Some Jazz fans still insist it was a terrible trade, just because they can't admit to being wrong.

The point I'm making is that it often takes time for a player to adjust to a new team. Even if Conley had been included from the beginning, it would likely have taken some time for Gobert to adjust to playing with everyone else. Gobert had similar problems in Utah playing next to Derrick Favors as he has had next to Kat, and Utah spent considerable time trying to make it work. Obviously, Kat is on a whole different level offensively, but playing Rudy next to another big is a challenge that will likely continue to be an issue at times.

[Nick K]

That sequence with Gobert a few minutes into the 4th quarter was bizarre. The one where he brings the ball up court, gets his pass/dribble picked in transition, we get the ball back and then Gobert goes behind his back dribbling the ball and then up for the least smooth layup I've seen in a long time. That was basically our season in one sequence.

If not the season, it sums up the Gobert trade. He is great, he sucks, what did he do? Oh, he is good.

I like that. That's good. It pretty much says it all. Ah, he life of a fan.....

[Klomp]

He’s top 3 PG in wolves history already with Cassell and Marbury

He’s not ahead of Brandon.

Mike Conley is maybe my favorite player right now. I love the way he hustles and controls the game. Anti-DLo.

But my heart belongs to Rubio.

Also, how cool is it that we are talking right now about the greatest moments in franchise history? I know a lot of negativity surrounds this team’s inconsistencies, but whenever you are at a point that you are considering the greatest moments of all time, we need to appreciate where we are.

It's interesting to look at the numbers...Conley really isn't that far off from everyone else.

Marbury averaged 16.9 ppg and 8.3 apg
Brandon averaged 15.6 ppg and 8.3 apg
Cassell averaged 17.2 ppg and 6.4 apg
Rubio averaged 10.1 ppg and 8.1 apg
Russell averaged 18.5 ppg and 6.5 apg

Those were the five usually at the top of any franchise PG debates. Conley's come in and averaged 14.0 ppg and 5.0 apg. But his 42.0% 3FG dwarfs any of the others and we know about his leadership.

[younggunsmn]

He’s not ahead of Brandon.

Mike Conley is maybe my favorite player right now. I love the way he hustles and controls the game. Anti-DLo.

But my heart belongs to Rubio.

Also, how cool is it that we are talking right now about the greatest moments in franchise history? I know a lot of negativity surrounds this team’s inconsistencies, but whenever you are at a point that you are considering the greatest moments of all time, we need to appreciate where we are.

It's interesting to look at the numbers...Conley really isn't that far off from everyone else.

Marbury averaged 16.9 ppg and 8.3 apg
Brandon averaged 15.6 ppg and 8.3 apg
Cassell averaged 17.2 ppg and 6.4 apg
Rubio averaged 10.1 ppg and 8.1 apg
Russell averaged 18.5 ppg and 6.5 apg

Those were the five usually at the top of any franchise PG debates. Conley's come in and averaged 14.0 ppg and 5.0 apg. But his 42.0% 3FG dwarfs any of the others and we know about his leadership.

This sent me down a basketball reference rabbit hole to see how my memory matched up with Reality.

Rubio spent 7 full seasons here (2 were cut short by injuries).
Marbury, Cassell, and Brandon each only had 2 full seasons here that weren't trade or injury shortened.
Russell had the equivalent of 3 full seasons.

There have also been Pooh Richardson (3 full seasons) and Michael Williams (2 full seasons and 2 years missed to injury),
short stints by Bobby Jackson, Chauncey Billups (2 full seasons), and Troy Hudson Played 5 seasons here, was hurt for most of 3 of them and only started mostly in his 1st year.

89-91 Pooh Richardson (draft)
We traded Pooh Richardson for Michael Williams after 3 seasons
92, 93 Michael Wililams. Williams plays 1 game in 94 and gets hurt
94 Winston Garland starts 58 games
95 Terry Porter (signed as free agent) and Spud Webb. KG's rookie year.
Porter played 3 years here, playing all 82 games each year but mostly coming off the bench his last 2 years
96-97 Stephon Marbury (draft)
98- lockout year, Marbury traded mid year for Terrell Brandon
99-2000 Terell Brandon, Billups plays 77 games
2001 - Brandon starts 28 games and gets hurt, Billups starts 54 games
2002 - Brandon hurt, Billups leaves as a FA. Troy Hudson starts 74 games and we won 47 games
2003 - Sam Cassell 57 wins and WCF appearance
We traded Marc jackson and Brandon's contract for Latrell Sprewell,
and Anthony Peeler and Joe Smith for Sam Cassell and Ervin Johnson
2004 - Cassell
2005 - Marko Jaric and Marcus Banks (traded Cassell + 1st (austin Rivers) for Jaric
2006 - Mike James started 65 games
2007 - jaric and Sebastian Telfair
2008 - Telfair, Foye, and Kevin Ollie
2009 - Jonny Flynn started 81 games
2010 - Luke Ridnour started 66 games
2011 - Rubio and Ridnour
2012 -2016 - Ricky Rubio
2017 - Jeff Teague (47-35, lost 1st round)
2018 - Jeff Teague played 41 games, injured for 41. Tyus Jones and Derrick Rose also started games
2019 - Jeff Teague, Shabazz Napier started 22 games, Russell acquired at trade deadline and started 12 games
2020 - Ricky Rubio started 51 games, Russell played 42 games starting 26. Ant's Rookie Year
2021 - Russell and Patrick Beverly
2022 - Russell started 54 games, Mike Conley started 24 games.


A lot of pretty bad years of PG play there. The guys who were good that we remember either left or fell off due to injuries.

Rubio had the most longevity, but also did not make the playoffs once while here.
Cassell probably had the most statistically impressive season here in '03-04 and our only playoff series win, but was older when he got here and fell off pretty badly the following year.
Marbury looked like a budding superstar when he came here and losing both him and Gugliotta in back to back years was devastating because that team looked like it was going to be good for a really long time and it was a decade of trying to patch holes around KG after that.

I really like Conley, and his defense and leadership have been tremendous.
If we can make deep playoff runs this year and next, he will be right up there.
I'm going to put Rubio up there just because of the 7 years here and how great he was to the fans, plus the two years we all spent waiting for him to come over watching highlights, it's really like he was here for 9 years.