Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[Biff Cooper]

Would KAT straight up for Julius Randle make us a better team on the court?

Would KAT straight up for Pascal Siakam make us a better team on the court?

I'm not going to pretend to know either of their games well enough to say one way or the other. It just seems like these might be ways to pivot away from the 2 center lineup and make room to keep Naz on the roster.

[shangrila]

Would KAT straight up for Julius Randle make us a better team on the court?

No. Maybe a slight increase defensively but offensively he's worse, although by less than people might think.

I've made an argument for a Towns-Randle based swapped and it boils down to Randle being about 80-85% as good as KAT but at roughly 60% of the cost.

Would KAT straight up for Pascal Siakam make us a better team on the court?

Yes. Siakam is worse offensively but significantly better defensively.

[shangrila]

I think that's too big of a pipedream. Sengun is a stud, and I don't think he'd fit with Rudy anyway.

I think that’s a pass for me. Scoot is the prize and only reason to entertain trading Kat for lesser pieces.

Why not trade with Charlotte at 2?

Nobody is talking about this.

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

[SO_MONEY]

I think that’s a pass for me. Scoot is the prize and only reason to entertain trading Kat for lesser pieces.

Why not trade with Charlotte at 2?

Nobody is talking about this.

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

[Norseman79]

Why not trade with Charlotte at 2?

Nobody is talking about this.

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

In no way am I moving McDaniels from where he played last year. Let him be the three. It also forces Ant to the 3 where he is less effective. In the scenario you laid out, I am moving Conley and Prince for an average starting 4/vet and then using Simons as instant offense 6th man... Manu ginobli style.

[Krapinsky]

I think that's too big of a pipedream. Sengun is a stud, and I don't think he'd fit with Rudy anyway.

I think that’s a pass for me. Scoot is the prize and only reason to entertain trading Kat for lesser pieces.

Why not trade with Charlotte at 2?

Nobody is talking about this.

Well Portland trading the #3 for a 'win-now' player makes a lot more sense than Charlotte trading the #2 for a 'win-now' player. My growing sense is that Charlotte takes Scoot at #2 and keeps him.

[Battletrigger]

Why not trade with Charlotte at 2?

Nobody is talking about this.

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

You don't make the PO with that lineup. The point here is trade Town and continue being competitive. We have given too many first to begin a reconstruction.

If we could swap Towns for Siakam that would be awesome. Siakam is a player in Towns tier that fit much better and make a really good defensive team.

Conley - Ant - McDaniels - Siakam - Gobert

With Naz, Naw, Anderson of the bench.

That team is top 4 in the West.

[urinesane]

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

You don't make the PO with that lineup. The point here is trade Town and continue being competitive. We have given too many first to begin a reconstruction.

If we could swap Towns for Siakam that would be awesome. Siakam is a player in Towns tier that fit much better and make a really good defensive team.

Conley - Ant - McDaniels - Siakam - Gobert

With Naz, Naw, Anderson of the bench.

That team is top 4 in the West.

I think that a healthy roster with KAT and what they currently have is a 3-4th seed. I know there are a lot of worries about the lux tax in the coming years, but neither KAT nor Rudy need to be here longterm. I think that they need KATs offensive versatility pretty badly. I know Ant is... well he's Ant (which is awesome) and Jaden is improving, but KAT can create a lot of gravity and opportunity with his skillset (and offer a lot of flexibility for the coaching staff).

Plus, if they are REALLY worried about KAT's supermax kicking in after next season, they could always trade him before the deadline (and hopefully let him raise his value to get an impact player, rather than lottery tickets or rotational guys). Also, if KAT gets back to All-NBA type form and Rudy is more on par with his normal play, they can probably get some decent value for Gobert as well (not what they sent out necessarily, but maybe some picks and a solid defensive anchor).

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

You don't make the PO with that lineup. The point here is trade Town and continue being competitive. We have given too many first to begin a reconstruction.

If we could swap Towns for Siakam that would be awesome. Siakam is a player in Towns tier that fit much better and make a really good defensive team.

Conley - Ant - McDaniels - Siakam - Gobert

With Naz, Naw, Anderson of the bench.

That team is top 4 in the West.

Totally agree with that. Definitly a contender with this line up for me.

[SO_MONEY]

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

In no way am I moving McDaniels from where he played last year. Let him be the three. It also forces Ant to the 3 where he is less effective. In the scenario you laid out, I am moving Conley and Prince for an average starting 4/vet and then using Simons as instant offense 6th man... Manu ginobli style.

100% disagree.

[minimus]

Because the potential deal is less attractive.

Assuming you get Scoot in either scenario then it's between Simons+Nurkic and Hayward (you could do Rozier+Martin, but Hayward makes more sense). The only piece that "fits" is Hayward but both Simons and Nurkic have better value which could be used to plug the new hole at the 4 we'd have.

I think Charlotte also owes a future 1st to someone but I'm not sure of the protections, so that could hamper what picks they could include to bridge the value gap.

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

In no way am I moving McDaniels from where he played last year. Let him be the three. It also forces Ant to the 3 where he is less effective. In the scenario you laid out, I am moving Conley and Prince for an average starting 4/vet and then using Simons as instant offense 6th man... Manu ginobli style.

Yeah. Playing MCD full time at PF, and Edwards at SF is receipt for disaster. This is definition of being big on paper and small in the game, they will lack physicality. Not to mention that Simmons is one of the worst defenders in NBA. I also doubt Scoot will be a good defender from day one, because he lacks NBA experience.

Trade Towns for #2, #29 and Hayward (30 mil expiring), keep both Reid and NAW, next season extend Anderson and maybe Conley and TP

Starting five: Conley-Edwards-MCD-Anderson-Gobert

Bench unit: Scoot-NAW-Hayward-TP-Reid

Trade Towns for #3, Simmons, keep both Reid and NAW, next season extend Anderson and maybe Conley. First Scoot season:

Starting five: Conley-Edwards-MCD-Anderson-Gobert

Bench unit: Scoot-NAW-Simmons-TP-Reid

Simmons as 6th with 26 mil contract is not an ideal option, but if he can partially share PG duties (as backup PG) with Scoot when Conley retires it will be win-win. As backup PG he fits well with defensive minded NAW, but we will need to figure out PF position, maybe resign Anderson and Minott will develop into rotation player. Second Scoot season:

Starting five: Scoot-Edwards-MCD-???-Gobert

Bench unit: Simmons-NAW-???-Reid

[Norseman79]

McDaniels should be our PF in that case.

Scoot, Simions, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid.

In today's NBA that is at least a start of something. Then at some point you can address a trade to upgrade the overall team sliding anywhere 2-4 with our positional flexibility but probably after next draft. 1-3 are pretty important nowadays and McDaniels is less of a weakness at the 4... an attribute really. What you want to do is upgrade Simions eventually.

In no way am I moving McDaniels from where he played last year. Let him be the three. It also forces Ant to the 3 where he is less effective. In the scenario you laid out, I am moving Conley and Prince for an average starting 4/vet and then using Simons as instant offense 6th man... Manu ginobli style.

Yeah. Playing MCD full time at PF, and Edwards at SF is receipt for disaster. This is definition of being big on paper and small in the game, they will lack physicality. Not to mention that Simmons is one of the worst defenders in NBA. I also doubt Scoot will be a good defender from day one, because he lacks NBA experience.

Trade Towns for #2, #29 and Hayward (30 mil expiring), keep both Reid and NAW, next season extend Anderson and maybe Conley and TP

Starting five: Conley-Edwards-MCD-Anderson-Gobert

Bench unit: Scoot-NAW-Hayward-TP-Reid

Trade Towns for #3, Simmons, keep both Reid and NAW, next season extend Anderson and maybe Conley. First Scoot season:

Starting five: Conley-Edwards-MCD-Anderson-Gobert

Bench unit: Scoot-NAW-Simmons-TP-Reid

Simmons as 6th with 26 mil contract is not an ideal option, but if he can partially share PG duties (as backup PG) with Scoot when Conley retires it will be win-win. As backup PG he fits well with defensive minded NAW, but we will need to figure out PF position, maybe resign Anderson and Minott will develop into rotation player. Second Scoot season:

Starting five: Scoot-Edwards-MCD-???-Gobert

Bench unit: Simmons-NAW-???-Reid

Regarding the Charlotte idea

MN out: Towns, Moore
In: #2, Hayward, Thor, 2027 1

Char out: Hayward, Thor, #2, 2027 1
In: Towns, Moore

PG - Conley, Henderson
SG - Ant, Naw
SF - McDaniels, Hayward, Minott
PF - Anderson, Thor
C. - Gobert, Reid

Now the Portland trade to me requires a 3rd or 4th team.

Por out: #3, 2027 1, 2024 2, Simons, Grant (S&T), Nurkic, Little
In: Kat, Prince, Hield, Hardway Jr.

Dallas out: Hardway Jr
In: Nurkic

Indiana out: Jalen Smith, Buddy Hield, #29
In: Simons, Grant

Minnesota out: Kat, Prince
In: Jalen Smith, Nassir Little, #3, #29, 2027 1, 2024 2nd

Minnesota

PG Conley, Scoot
SG Ant, NAW
SF McDaniels, Little/Minott
PF Smith, Anderson
C. Gobert, Reid

[Domejandro]

I don't really see Charlotte doing it. Makes more sense from a timeline perspective for them to just draft Scoot Henderson.

[Slim Tubby]

In no way am I moving McDaniels from where he played last year. Let him be the three. It also forces Ant to the 3 where he is less effective. In the scenario you laid out, I am moving Conley and Prince for an average starting 4/vet and then using Simons as instant offense 6th man... Manu ginobli style.

Yeah. Playing MCD full time at PF, and Edwards at SF is receipt for disaster. This is definition of being big on paper and small in the game, they will lack physicality. Not to mention that Simmons is one of the worst defenders in NBA. I also doubt Scoot will be a good defender from day one, because he lacks NBA experience.

Trade Towns for #2, #29 and Hayward (30 mil expiring), keep both Reid and NAW, next season extend Anderson and maybe Conley and TP

Starting five: Conley-Edwards-MCD-Anderson-Gobert

Bench unit: Scoot-NAW-Hayward-TP-Reid

Trade Towns for #3, Simmons, keep both Reid and NAW, next season extend Anderson and maybe Conley. First Scoot season:

Starting five: Conley-Edwards-MCD-Anderson-Gobert

Bench unit: Scoot-NAW-Simmons-TP-Reid

Simmons as 6th with 26 mil contract is not an ideal option, but if he can partially share PG duties (as backup PG) with Scoot when Conley retires it will be win-win. As backup PG he fits well with defensive minded NAW, but we will need to figure out PF position, maybe resign Anderson and Minott will develop into rotation player. Second Scoot season:

Starting five: Scoot-Edwards-MCD-???-Gobert

Bench unit: Simmons-NAW-???-Reid

Regarding the Charlotte idea

MN out: Towns, Moore
In: #2, Hayward, Thor, 2027 1

Char out: Hayward, Thor, #2, 2027 1
In: Towns, Moore

PG - Conley, Henderson
SG - Ant, Naw
SF - McDaniels, Hayward, Minott
PF - Anderson, Thor
C. - Gobert, Reid

Now the Portland trade to me requires a 3rd or 4th team.

Por out: #3, 2027 1, 2024 2, Simons, Grant (S&T), Nurkic, Little
In: Kat, Prince, Hield, Hardway Jr.

Dallas out: Hardway Jr
In: Nurkic

Indiana out: Jalen Smith, Buddy Hield, #29
In: Simons, Grant

Minnesota out: Kat, Prince
In: Jalen Smith, Nassir Little, #3, #29, 2027 1, 2024 2nd

Minnesota

PG Conley, Scoot
SG Ant, NAW
SF McDaniels, Little/Minott
PF Smith, Anderson
C. Gobert, Reid

I love the CHA and 3-team trade options along with what Minimus proposed. The POR offer gives me pause because I'm not a fan of Simons and I'm not sure how any team in the NBA will be able to afford a $26M/year bench player moving forward unless they have 2-3 starters still on their Rookie deals.

I really like the ideas, though!

[Slim Tubby]

I don't really see Charlotte doing it. Makes more sense from a timeline perspective for them to just draft Scoot Henderson.

Sadly, I agree although it creates a weird fit with LaMelo on the roster unless the plan is to move him.

ESPN had Scoot on the other day and it was my first chance to hear him speak. He's so likable, well spoken and confident that outside of Mykal Bridges, he's #1 on my wish list for any KAT trade.

[minimus]

^^ regarding PF position: IMO you can afford a non shooter if you have an elite shooter to compensate. Example: Adebayo-Butler frontcourt and Herro-Duncan.

You can have a below average shooter and multiple above average shooters. Example: Sabonis and Huerter, Murray, Monk, Fox and Barnes. Aaron Gordon in DEN, Gobert in UTA.

We have three positions set: Gobert at C, MCD at SF, Edwards at SG. Conley will most likely be starting PG again, so PF position is really a joker card here. Anderson was excellent in regular season, but his lack of shooting was exposed in playoffs. Ideally he should be our 6th man. As starting PF I prefer 6'8"-6'9" 230-240 lbs who can hit open 3s and defend PF/SF and some C and SG like Aaron Gordon, Butler.

[TimberKat]

I don't really see Charlotte doing it. Makes more sense from a timeline perspective for them to just draft Scoot Henderson.

I see Charlotte do this trade in a heart beat. Get an all star player to pair with Ball. Now just need to attract another quality player to have a very good team. Also dump Hayward's salary and get out of the awkward situation of playing both Scoot and Ball. They would throw in 2 future number ones to make this work if we wanted it.

[TimberKat]

Let’s look at the top 3 picks of last seven years:
2022 – Banchero, Holgren, Jabari Smith
2021- Cunningham, Jalen Green, Mobley
2020 – Ant, Wiseman, LaMelo Ball
2019 – Zion, Ja, RJ Barrett
2018 – Ayton, Bagley3, Luka
2017 – Fultz, Lonzo Ball, Tatum
2016 – Simmons, Ingram, Jaylen Brown

The only player that I consider can’t missed is Zion. Now you know how they turn out after a few years of service; Let’s trade Towns for one of them plus a #1 future pick. How many of those 20 prospects would you trade Towns for? Maybe 6 or 7? So, there is a 66% chance we will get it wrong with the #2 or #3 pick and lose Towns for nothing.

Draft picks are like new cars, as soon as they hit the floor, 66% of them will lose half of their value.

I also think the concern of Towns’ supermax salary is over rated. He is already signed and any team that pick him up will have to deal with it so it’s already factored into his current trade value. Teams like Huston or Charlotte will have money next year. Teams that are over the cap could always find enough salary to make it work. It may cost the Wolves one or two 2nd round picks to get other teams involve in the gymnastics.

[Norseman79]

Let’s look at the top 3 picks of last seven years:
2022 – Banchero, Holgren, Jabari Smith
2021- Cunningham, Jalen Green, Mobley
2020 – Ant, Wiseman, LaMelo Ball
2019 – Zion, Ja, RJ Barrett
2018 – Ayton, Bagley3, Luka
2017 – Fultz, Lonzo Ball, Tatum
2016 – Simmons, Ingram, Jaylen Brown

The only player that I consider can’t missed is Zion. Now you know how they turn out after a few years of service; Let’s trade Towns for one of them plus a #1 future pick. How many of those 20 prospects would you trade Towns for? Maybe 6 or 7? So, there is a 66% chance we will get it wrong with the #2 or #3 pick and lose Towns for nothing.

Draft picks are like new cars, as soon as they hit the floor, 66% of them will lose half of their value.

I also think the concern of Towns’ supermax salary is over rated. He is already signed and any team that pick him up will have to deal with it so it’s already factored into his current trade value. Teams like Huston or Charlotte will have money next year. Teams that are over the cap could always find enough salary to make it work. It may cost the Wolves one or two 2nd round picks to get other teams involve in the gymnastics.

I mean, I actually would say 13-14 of them I would trade Kat for knowing I would be getting more back than just player for player.

You are a Kat fan, you don't want him gone, makes sense. I wouldn't give him away either. I just want to maximize value and build this around Ant as soon as possible

[TimberKat]

Let’s look at the top 3 picks of last seven years:
2022 – Banchero, Holgren, Jabari Smith
2021- Cunningham, Jalen Green, Mobley
2020 – Ant, Wiseman, LaMelo Ball
2019 – Zion, Ja, RJ Barrett
2018 – Ayton, Bagley3, Luka
2017 – Fultz, Lonzo Ball, Tatum
2016 – Simmons, Ingram, Jaylen Brown

The only player that I consider can’t missed is Zion. Now you know how they turn out after a few years of service; Let’s trade Towns for one of them plus a #1 future pick. How many of those 20 prospects would you trade Towns for? Maybe 6 or 7? So, there is a 66% chance we will get it wrong with the #2 or #3 pick and lose Towns for nothing.

Draft picks are like new cars, as soon as they hit the floor, 66% of them will lose half of their value.

I also think the concern of Towns’ supermax salary is over rated. He is already signed and any team that pick him up will have to deal with it so it’s already factored into his current trade value. Teams like Huston or Charlotte will have money next year. Teams that are over the cap could always find enough salary to make it work. It may cost the Wolves one or two 2nd round picks to get other teams involve in the gymnastics.

I mean, I actually would say 13-14 of them I would trade Kat for knowing I would be getting more back than just player for player.

You are a Kat fan, you don't want him gone, makes sense. I wouldn't give him away either. I just want to maximize value and build this around Ant as soon as possible

2022 – Banchero – Maybe, Holgren – no, injury concerns, Jabari Smith - no
2021- Cunningham - no, Jalen Green - no, Mobley – Maybe,
2020 – Ant - Yes, Wiseman - No, LaMelo Ball – No, commitment to MN concerns
2019 – Zion – Maybe, injury, Ja – no, RJ Barrett - no
2018 – Ayton -no, Bagley3 - no, Luka - Yes
2017 – Fultz - no, Lonzo Ball- no, Tatum - Yes
2016 – Simmons - no, Ingram - Maybe, Jaylen Brown – Yes

So that is 4 Yeses (barely made AGT next round) and 4 Maybes. The other 1st round pick is likely going to be in the teens (or after) and is not going to help you win in the next 4 year. So we are rebuilding again? I am not a Towns homer but just feel you guys are totally under value him. Even if we think our winning timeline is Ant and JMac, it is still now. Next season is their 4th year. Brown, Tatum, Luka, Ja were all winning by their 4th year.