ImageImageImage

***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread***

Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks

KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 22,461
And1: 6,044
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#41 » by KGdaBom » Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:53 am

Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
He didn't really prove us wrong last year. He had a full year to live up to his value and he couldn't.

The bar for Rudy's respect is commensurate with the value he was traded for. The only player who had a trade of that value in recent years was probably Paul George. And even though Kawhi was technically the reason that deal was done, PG still hasn't lived up to the hype. He still gets dogged on all the time and I actually like him.

Donovan Mitchell is another player who had a similar trade. Yet people aren't **** on him because he was a fringe MVP candidate last year.

He played a lot better than the piece of **** that YoungGuns clearly thinks he is whether he says so or not. YoungGuns as far as I can tell believes Rudy is a POS regardless of what he was traded for.


Still doesn't change the fact that he didn't live up to his value last year.

he didn't live up to my expectations for him last year. 100% agreement. My expectations were VERY HIGH. However, he was a good player for us and he will continue to be so. He won't be a worthless POS holding us back. He might even bounce back and be closer to the player he was in Utah. I hope so. :D
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 22,461
And1: 6,044
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#42 » by KGdaBom » Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:54 am

Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
We don't have the best team we ever had because if we did our record would match that. And it doesn't. Rudy had a full year and he didn't do diddly ****. Mostly because he's unplayable on offense and can only run drop coverage on defense.

We didn't trade 5 picks and role players for Ant. We did trade all that for a garbage offensive player.

And Ant is the only reason this offense even breathes, so take Rudy's nuts out of your mouth for 5 seconds.

I'm going to really enjoy how much Rudy proves you wrong. I mean spectacularly wrong. However, no matter what he does you won't admit it.


Like I said he didn't live up to his value last year, I definitely don't see that happening this year.

Are you just going to post this every year he's with us?

As long as people post that he is a worthless POS I am going to continue to post this. To me he isn't a garbage offensive player. He does some things on offense well. Also do you really have to say things like take Rudy's nuts out of your mouth. That is flat out sick. As a matter of fact you could probably be reported for it. I won't, but I don't appreciate it at all.
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 22,461
And1: 6,044
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#43 » by KGdaBom » Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:57 am

Note30 wrote:
Calinks wrote:
Note30 wrote:
We don't have the best team we ever had because if we did our record would match that. And it doesn't. Rudy had a full year and he didn't do diddly ****. Mostly because he's unplayable on offense and can only run drop coverage on defense.

We didn't trade 5 picks and role players for Ant. We did trade all that for a garbage offensive player.

And Ant is the only reason this offense even breathes, so take Rudy's nuts out of your mouth for 5 seconds.

Come on now. Rudy is not a flashy or offensive player but he was still instrumental in us making the playoffs last year. We were still a good defensive team in large part hanks to him. Can't act like he did nothing out there.


Absolutely of course he helped get us to the playin last year. That doesn't change the fact that considering what we gave up he definitely didn't live up to the expectations of what we traded him for.

Yeah he helped out our half court defense. But our half court defense wasn't all that horrible prior to the trade.

My point isn't oh yeah Rudy is dog ****. My point is that people are far overvaluing what he brings to the table.

Your points have been that he didn't meet expectations mostly. A couple of times you implied he was bad. It's YoungGuns that I have my issues with regarding Rudy. Not very much with you. Sorry YoungGuns I still think you are cool, but to me you go way overboard trashing Rudy.
FrenchMinnyFan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,912
And1: 1,111
Joined: Feb 10, 2023
     

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#44 » by FrenchMinnyFan » Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:02 am

Rudy is 3 times best defender on the league but based on some comments here, he shoud be out of the league ! So ridiculous. Rudy is a really poor offensive player, we all know that. Yes we pay too much to get him we all know it specially after kessler step up. But we have a great team and we will be good this year with Rudy doing his job. Like it or not.
Mamba4Goat
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 11,767
And1: 8,071
Joined: Dec 13, 2013
     

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#45 » by Mamba4Goat » Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:22 am

Call me crazy but I thought there was a lot of encouraging things Rudy did on offense. I think he’ll be vastly more playable on that end compared to last year.
Rest in peace Mamba. There'll never be another Kobe.
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 22,461
And1: 6,044
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#46 » by KGdaBom » Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:35 am

Mamba4Goat wrote:Call me crazy but I thought there was a lot of encouraging things Rudy did on offense. I think he’ll be vastly more playable on that end compared to last year.

I won't call you crazy.
TimberKat
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,973
And1: 3,005
Joined: Jul 02, 2022
         

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#47 » by TimberKat » Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:55 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
Calinks wrote:Come on now. Rudy is not a flashy or offensive player but he was still instrumental in us making the playoffs last year. We were still a good defensive team in large part hanks to him. Can't act like he did nothing out there.


Absolutely of course he helped get us to the playin last year. That doesn't change the fact that considering what we gave up he definitely didn't live up to the expectations of what we traded him for.

Yeah he helped out our half court defense. But our half court defense wasn't all that horrible prior to the trade.

My point isn't oh yeah Rudy is dog ****. My point is that people are far overvaluing what he brings to the table.

Your points have been that he didn't meet expectations mostly. A couple of times you implied he was bad. It's YoungGuns that I have my issues with regarding Rudy. Not very much with you. Sorry YoungGuns I still think you are cool, but to me you go way overboard trashing Rudy.

For how bad anyone thinks Rudy played last year, he was still a top 65 player in the league by most player ratings. We compliant about Rudy's offense but seems to be OK with Venderbilt's but Rudy has a higher shooting pct and scores more points. I bet 30 out of 30 GM still think at this moment, Rudy is a better player that Kassler. OK, we overpaid but that doesn't mean he is a bad player. We had to suck for a few years and got lucky with the ping pong balls to get Ant so it's not like Ant didn't cost anything.

If given the choice of 4 first round picks or a top 50 player. I take the top 50 player. What is the chance of landing a top 50 player with 4 first round picks? You can go back and look at all the team's history and I bet it's not often.
Folklore
Pro Prospect
Posts: 852
And1: 250
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
 

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#48 » by Folklore » Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:13 am

Neeva wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
We don't have the best team we ever had because if we did our record would match that. And it doesn't. Rudy had a full year and he didn't do diddly ****. Mostly because he's unplayable on offense and can only run drop coverage on defense.

We didn't trade 5 picks and role players for Ant. We did trade all that for a garbage offensive player.

And Ant is the only reason this offense even breathes, so take Rudy's nuts out of your mouth for 5 seconds.

I'm going to really enjoy how much Rudy proves you wrong. I mean spectacularly wrong. However, no matter what he does you won't admit it.


They will never admit anything they will just disappear like the McDaniels and Ant skeptics (although those posters do appear early in the seasons if Jaden and Ant have slow starts to call Jaden a skinny non entity and Ant Dion Waiters 2.0 then when Jaden and Ant get going as the season goes on, they disappear)


I'm here. I've called him like JR Smith. I should be clear because stats aren't what I'm talking about. I see ant as a very skilled player but he has low bbiq that he needs to clean up before I see him as a dependable star player. When he's cold he keeps shooting instead of making a smart play.

He over dribbles a lot then everyone else just watches. he needs to be more decisive. I like flash but he gets butterfingers too much. And I'm tired of the Kobe "HEY!" yelling. I feel like he should have cut back on a lot of those things by now. but right now, he's an elite microwave player to me.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,279
And1: 19,284
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#49 » by shrink » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:30 pm

TimberKat wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
Absolutely of course he helped get us to the playin last year. That doesn't change the fact that considering what we gave up he definitely didn't live up to the expectations of what we traded him for.

Yeah he helped out our half court defense. But our half court defense wasn't all that horrible prior to the trade.

My point isn't oh yeah Rudy is dog ****. My point is that people are far overvaluing what he brings to the table.

Your points have been that he didn't meet expectations mostly. A couple of times you implied he was bad. It's YoungGuns that I have my issues with regarding Rudy. Not very much with you. Sorry YoungGuns I still think you are cool, but to me you go way overboard trashing Rudy.

For how bad anyone thinks Rudy played last year, he was still a top 65 player in the league by most player ratings. We compliant about Rudy's offense but seems to be OK with Venderbilt's but Rudy has a higher shooting pct and scores more points. I bet 30 out of 30 GM still think at this moment, Rudy is a better player that Kassler. OK, we overpaid but that doesn't mean he is a bad player. We had to suck for a few years and got lucky with the ping pong balls to get Ant so it's not like Ant didn't cost anything.

If given the choice of 4 first round picks or a top 50 player. I take the top 50 player. What is the chance of landing a top 50 player with 4 first round picks? You can go back and look at all the team's history and I bet it's not often.

Yes. Why do we run plays for Gobert? Because if we get him a lob or dunk, he usually scores.

I understand people who hate him can only see the misses. However, Rudy last season shot .6593 on his 7.8 FGA’s last year. If that number sounds high, that’s because it is. It’s the 18th highest season-long FG% in NBA history! In fact, of the top 20 seasons in NBA history, Rudy has six of them. Yes, these are dunkers (for example, 4 seasons from DeAndre Jordan on less volume, 2 from Wilt Chamberlain on greater volume), but .. stay with me here .. dunks are effective basketball plays. Only a fool wouldn’t use Rudy both for dunks, and to create gravity in the middle for our shooters.
younggunsmn
Head Coach
Posts: 6,739
And1: 2,566
Joined: May 28, 2007
Location: Hiding from the thought police.

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#50 » by younggunsmn » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:51 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I am going to really enjoy how much Rudy will prove you wrong. I mean spectacularly wrong. :D


He didn't really prove us wrong last year. He had a full year to live up to his value and he couldn't.

The bar for Rudy's respect is commensurate with the value he was traded for. The only player who had a trade of that value in recent years was probably Paul George. And even though Kawhi was technically the reason that deal was done, PG still hasn't lived up to the hype. He still gets dogged on all the time and I actually like him.

Donovan Mitchell is another player who had a similar trade. Yet people aren't **** on him because he was a fringe MVP candidate last year.

He played a lot better than the piece of **** that YoungGuns clearly thinks he is whether he says so or not. YoungGuns as far as I can tell believes Rudy is a POS regardless of what he was traded for.


I am making very specific points about what I do not like about Rudy's game, his significantly negative effect on the team offense, and his lack of willingness to change to make the team and his teammates better.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun and Finch will fix things and the spacing will look drastically different in the regular season than its been in preseason. But I don't want a repeat of last year's offense. I don't think the rest of you do either.

You specifically, and most of the rest of you here in general, can't make any legitimate counterpoint to that argument,
and Instead you all just bark that Gunz hates Rudy.
You all want to put your fingers in your ears and live through the cognitive dissonance, that's on you.
You lash out not because I'm being cruel or mean or unfair, but because I'm over the target.
I'm looking for ways to fix the offense, and that doesn't happen without Rudy bringing the BBIQ up, spacing much better, and being much more unselfish.

Sure Ant's decision making can improve a lot, but those problems are exacerbated by having a guy who is always in the way who needs to be spoonfed with little margin for error, who has no skill whatsoever to help Ant carry that load.
It is night and day difference for Ant when he is playing with Rudy and when he is playing with Naz.
Because Naz gives him space and options.
Rudy can be a lot more effective and help us be a lot more effective than we have been, but he needs to calm down and take a step back for that to happen.
I don't like those stepbacks from Ant, it's really poor offense, especially in crunch time, but they are often the result of the offense really breaking down from lack of spacing, playcalling, and really poor synergy between teammates.

But muh FG%! If a guy makes 5 of 8 shots with 4 or 5 forced turnovers and an incredible amount of offensive capital spent getting him those 5 buckets, with his teammates taking lower quality shots all game because of the poor spacing, what is that really worth?

You look at a guy with a similar skill floor and body type like Steven Adams.
He was very effective playing with superstars like Durant, prime Westbrook, George, Morant.
Why was that? Because he understood his role very well, he understood spacing, he understood what his teammates were trying to do and how he needed to move off the ball to help them, at a high level.
He understands his limitations and the need to pass the ball to his much more talented teammates unless he's got an open dunk.

Those are the things I want to see from Rudy. I could care less what his FG% is or how many lobs he finishes in a game.
If he started doing that and played just above average defense, not even DPOY level, I could learn to appreciate him.
Right now all I get is frustration from watching him play.
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 22,461
And1: 6,044
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: ***Wolves vs Bulls final Pre-Season Game Thread*** 

Post#51 » by KGdaBom » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:58 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
He didn't really prove us wrong last year. He had a full year to live up to his value and he couldn't.

The bar for Rudy's respect is commensurate with the value he was traded for. The only player who had a trade of that value in recent years was probably Paul George. And even though Kawhi was technically the reason that deal was done, PG still hasn't lived up to the hype. He still gets dogged on all the time and I actually like him.

Donovan Mitchell is another player who had a similar trade. Yet people aren't **** on him because he was a fringe MVP candidate last year.

He played a lot better than the piece of **** that YoungGuns clearly thinks he is whether he says so or not. YoungGuns as far as I can tell believes Rudy is a POS regardless of what he was traded for.


I am making very specific points about what I do not like about Rudy's game, his significantly negative effect on the team offense, and his lack of willingness to change to make the team and his teammates better.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun and Finch will fix things and the spacing will look drastically different in the regular season than its been in preseason. But I don't want a repeat of last year's offense. I don't think the rest of you do either.

You specifically, and most of the rest of you here in general, can't make any legitimate counterpoint to that argument,
and Instead you all just bark that Gunz hates Rudy.
You all want to put your fingers in your ears and live through the cognitive dissonance, that's on you.
You lash out not because I'm being cruel or mean or unfair, but because I'm over the target.
I'm looking for ways to fix the offense, and that doesn't happen without Rudy bringing the BBIQ up, spacing much better, and being much more unselfish.

Sure Ant's decision making can improve a lot, but those problems are exacerbated by having a guy who is always in the way who needs to be spoonfed with little margin for error, who has no skill whatsoever to help Ant carry that load.
It is night and day difference for Ant when he is playing with Rudy and when he is playing with Naz.
Because Naz gives him space and options.
Rudy can be a lot more effective and help us be a lot more effective than we have been, but he needs to calm down and take a step back for that to happen.
I don't like those stepbacks from Ant, it's really poor offense, especially in crunch time, but they are often the result of the offense really breaking down from lack of spacing, playcalling, and really poor synergy between teammates.

But muh FG%! If a guy makes 5 of 8 shots with 4 or 5 forced turnovers and an incredible amount of offensive capital spent getting him those 5 buckets, with his teammates taking lower quality shots all game because of the poor spacing, what is that really worth?

You look at a guy with a similar skill floor and body type like Steven Adams.
He was very effective playing with superstars like Durant, prime Westbrook, George, Morant.
Why was that? Because he understood his role very well, he understood spacing, he understood what his teammates were trying to do and how he needed to move off the ball to help them, at a high level.
He understands his limitations and the need to pass the ball to his much more talented teammates unless he's got an open dunk.

Those are the things I want to see from Rudy. I could care less what his FG% is or how many lobs he finishes in a game.
If he started doing that and played just above average defense, not even DPOY level, I could learn to appreciate him.
Right now all I get is frustration from watching him play.

I think you greatly exaggerate his offensive deficiencies.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves