GAME 1 | MIN @ TOR

[Klomp]

The funny thing is that during the pregame, Pete and Grady mentioned that the wolves lead the league in assists throughout the entire preseason.

What happened to that formula? This team loses their trust in each other when things get tight. Then they try to get it all back in one shot or go to hero ball.

You see this especially late in games which is a reoccurring theme with this team. Once Ant seemed to assert himself early feeling the need to score rather than just make the right play, it went downhill from there.

Towns body language changed a bit, other guys started to rush.

Also, with the depth we’re allegedly supposed to have, finch will have a tough task with trying to figure out what combinations work now that teams are playing their main guys.

To me, one of Ant, Karl, or Rudy needs to be on the floor at all times. You cannot have a spurt where they’re all on the bench at once.

But keep in mind, it was just the first game and Jaden was out. Teams are typically over amped that first game. A lot of good players throughout the league had poor shooting nights.I mean the bulls already had a players only meeting.

One thing we can’t do though is treat Karl like Ayton in phx. As long as he’s on the team, you have to feature him in some way. He was not in rhythm at all during the game and was missed on quite a few PnR opportunities.

Finch also needs to talk to Rudy about flashing in the paint when guys are driving. He brought his defender e on a Naz drive that completely messed it up.

It’s early but no time to panic

Ant was the only guy making shots early. It gave him overconfidence in his ability to carry the team and less of a willingness to trust his teammates at times.

[Klomp]

Skimming through this thread, I'm definitely glad I took a full day away. It's ultimately just one game. And while it's a game you could say we should have won, it's also arguably one of our toughest stylistic matchups. I don't want to make any grandiose statements about this season on just this one game.

[Klomp]

I think the 3-point math could be a tipping point in our favor tonight. Toronto made just 49 3s in the preseason in 4 games (12.3 per game). Minnesota made 79 in 5 games (15.8 per game)

Welp

[younggunsmn]

Westbrook used to be pretty elite just because of his drive and kick.

Yeah, I mentioned Westbrook because I honestly believe that Edwards is already elite slasher. Providing him with all multiple shooters will unlock his drive and kick game. I also think that Gobert as screener, roll man or in dunker spot provides spacing as well. But when he is sealing his opponent for a few seconds and our offense fails to feed him - then things gets complicated. I just hope that McDaniels will learn how to involve Gobert. It always makes me wonder why Anderson despite being slow and unathletic, keeps making those smart entry passes to Gobert? Anderson really has "only" these awkward long floaters in his arsenal but these are meshing so well with passing to Gobert.

The only thing Ant kicks maybe are the nuts of the defender. He sometimes goes too fast at the basket to even have the kick option. How Luka leverage Lively in a dynamic way is our blueprint going forward.

We use Gobert as a screener all the time last year. I would think in general - 1/3 the time Gobert is a screener, 1/3 Gobert post up/seal, 1/3 Gobert at dunk spot with Towns around the block. It's not one or nothing and depends on matchups. Part of the reason I like to see Towns use the mid-range baby hook more is so he slows down a little on the drive and opens up more passing opportunities. Effectively play a little more like KA instead of a bull in a china shop with his drives.

Also, want to remind everyone that Towns had bad passes to other people too. Some of the force feed to Gobert was when Towns/Ant weren't shooting well and we had some relatively success in the game with it.

Maybe it's time to give John Wall a call. He still can drive.

No, as by far the lowest skilled offensive player in any lineup we put out, Gobert should be screening 85% of the time and looking to put himself into scoring postion 15% of the time.

We are not getting to even 2nd or 3rd options in our offense much less 4th or 5th.
That's a huge reason for all the bad shots.
Rudy is often setting one screen and immediately diving to the basket.
Once he does that, it brings the ball and player movement to a grinding halt.
He has taken himself out of the mix as a screener, plus cut off teammates avenues for drives and backdoor cuts.
He should only be flashing to the basket when his defender is well out of position to help and there is a good passing angle available.

Let me give you an example:
Good offense:

They start with a horns set with KAT and Rudy at the top of the box.
Rudy sets a flare screen for KAT to set him up in the left slot.
He moves to the right slot to set a curl screen for Ant.
Then he goes to the right corner to set a screen for Jaden/NAW that they can either curl or backdoor cut off.
Finally, he sets up in the dunker spot on the right baseline where he is in position for a dump off pass or to set a screen for Conley who may be cutting through the baseline to fill the corner Jaden vacated depending on what happened in the play.

Floor is balanced, ball is moving, defense is forced to move and react, there is space in the middle of the floor if a drive is available.
A "switch everything" defense has now been forced to switch 4 times and there are mismatches everywhere.

What is happening:
Rudy sets the first screen. Immediately flashes to the paint looking for a pass and tries to seal his man.
Defense does not have to adjust, perimeter defenders have locked in. There is no space available in the middle of the floor.

Either a pass is forced to Rudy, Ant/KAT put up a contested jumper or drive into 2-3 defenders, or ball is swung to a closely contested corner shooter. This was our offense for 80% of the game against Toronto.
They have good defenders, but we made it very easy for them.

Rudy needs to understand his best looks are going to come after 3-4 maybe even 5 passes, after he has cut up the defense with screens and forced defenders into switches and/or chasing, getting them out of their comfort zones.

Slo-Mo was a team high +15 against the Raptors in no small part because he is our highest IQ player.
Rudy was -11. only NAW was worse at -17.
You would like to think that we wouldn't have to rely on Slo-Mo as a crutch again with a fully healthy team this year, but he seems to be the only guy who really gets it when it comes to spacing and movement on offense.

The player movement may be even more important than the ball movement, because it takes a lot of defensive energy, mental and physical, to properly defend a good screen or cut.
An offense that has 5 guys screening/cutting with great synergy is very hard to stop.
We are pretty damn far away from that right now.

[Note30]

Yeah, I mentioned Westbrook because I honestly believe that Edwards is already elite slasher. Providing him with all multiple shooters will unlock his drive and kick game. I also think that Gobert as screener, roll man or in dunker spot provides spacing as well. But when he is sealing his opponent for a few seconds and our offense fails to feed him - then things gets complicated. I just hope that McDaniels will learn how to involve Gobert. It always makes me wonder why Anderson despite being slow and unathletic, keeps making those smart entry passes to Gobert? Anderson really has "only" these awkward long floaters in his arsenal but these are meshing so well with passing to Gobert.

The only thing Ant kicks maybe are the nuts of the defender. He sometimes goes too fast at the basket to even have the kick option. How Luka leverage Lively in a dynamic way is our blueprint going forward.

We use Gobert as a screener all the time last year. I would think in general - 1/3 the time Gobert is a screener, 1/3 Gobert post up/seal, 1/3 Gobert at dunk spot with Towns around the block. It's not one or nothing and depends on matchups. Part of the reason I like to see Towns use the mid-range baby hook more is so he slows down a little on the drive and opens up more passing opportunities. Effectively play a little more like KA instead of a bull in a china shop with his drives.

Also, want to remind everyone that Towns had bad passes to other people too. Some of the force feed to Gobert was when Towns/Ant weren't shooting well and we had some relatively success in the game with it.

Maybe it's time to give John Wall a call. He still can drive.

No, as by far the lowest skilled offensive player in any lineup we put out, Gobert should be screening 85% of the time and looking to put himself into scoring postion 15% of the time.

We are not getting to even 2nd or 3rd options in our offense much less 4th or 5th.
That's a huge reason for all the bad shots.
Rudy is often setting one screen and immediately diving to the basket.
Once he does that, it brings the ball and player movement to a grinding halt.
He has taken himself out of the mix as a screener, plus cut off teammates avenues for drives and backdoor cuts.
He should only be flashing to the basket when his defender is well out of position to help and there is a good passing angle available.

Let me give you an example:
Good offense:

They start with a horns set with KAT and Rudy at the top of the box.
Rudy sets a flare screen for KAT to set him up in the left slot.
He moves to the right slot to set a curl screen for Ant.
Then he goes to the right corner to set a screen for Jaden/NAW that they can either curl or backdoor cut off.
Finally, he sets up in the dunker spot on the right baseline where he is in position for a dump off pass or to set a screen for Conley who may be cutting through the baseline to fill the corner Jaden vacated depending on what happened in the play.

Floor is balanced, ball is moving, defense is forced to move and react, there is space in the middle of the floor if a drive is available.
A "switch everything" defense has now been forced to switch 4 times and there are mismatches everywhere.

What is happening:
Rudy sets the first screen. Immediately flashes to the paint looking for a pass and tries to seal his man.
Defense does not have to adjust, perimeter defenders have locked in. There is no space available in the middle of the floor.

Either a pass is forced to Rudy, Ant/KAT put up a contested jumper or drive into 2-3 defenders, or ball is swung to a closely contested corner shooter. This was our offense for 80% of the game against Toronto.
They have good defenders, but we made it very easy for them.

Rudy needs to understand his best looks are going to come after 3-4 maybe even 5 passes, after he has cut up the defense with screens and forced defenders into switches and/or chasing, getting them out of their comfort zones.

Slo-Mo was a team high +15 against the Raptors in no small part because he is our highest IQ player.
Rudy was -11. only NAW was worse at -17.
You would like to think that we wouldn't have to rely on Slo-Mo as a crutch again with a fully healthy team this year, but he seems to be the only guy who really gets it when it comes to spacing and movement on offense.

The player movement may be even more important than the ball movement, because it takes a lot of defensive energy, mental and physical, to properly defend a good screen or cut.
An offense that has 5 guys screening/cutting with great synergy is very hard to stop.
We are pretty damn far away from that right now.

Not trying to be mean, but there is no offense in the world that would ever implement what you just talked about in your example above. What you're talking about is theoretically possible, but no defense will ever react to one screener doing all of that, especially if it's just repetition. They'd just cheat the screen, if there's no threat on the screen and no ball handler. I'd cheat the screen too if I knew the big wasn't gonna do **** after the screen.

Rudy can probably screen an additional time before diving to the basket but that means that he should part of pick and roll, not just a screen and dive.Otherwise if no one else screws you take away whether or not he's a threat.

You can run variations of pick and roll where the ball handler still kicks the ball and have someone else set backscreens or run a hammer screen set outside of the pick and roll to open up a three. Dwayne Casey absolutely loves that play, he runs it all the **** time.

It also helped that we had only one corner three shooter in Conley last game. With McDaniels back I don't estimate that to be the case.

I do agree that Rudy needs to do more than be part of a floppy screen and dive to the basket, I don't know what would be the best use of our personnel.

To be clear I do think he could theoretically set an additional screen, but unless other players are also setting screens no one is going to identify Rudy as a threat anywhere on the floor other than middle or in the dunkers spot, so you have to run multiple screens not just one guys running around setting screens

[younggunsmn]

3 or more screens on one possession for a player like Gobert not only common but should be a staple.
Watch what the Nuggets do for Murray or Bucks for Lillard.
Defense wants to cheat the screens or bring their big out to the perimeter?
Congratulations you've just moved the defense and taken help defenders out of the play.

Saw an example of what I'm talking about tonight on the corner 3 Conley hit after cutting along the baseline where Rudy took his defender out of the play with a screen from the dunker spot.

[Murphs56]

We just look so out of sorts offensively.

[TimberKat]

What is happening:
Rudy sets the first screen. Immediately flashes to the paint looking for a pass and tries to seal his man.
Defense does not have to adjust, perimeter defenders have locked in. There is no space available in the middle of the floor.

Either a pass is forced to Rudy, Ant/KAT put up a contested jumper or drive into 2-3 defenders, or ball is swung to a closely contested corner shooter. This was our offense for 80% of the game against Toronto.
They have good defenders, but we made it very easy for them.

Rudy needs to understand his best looks are going to come after 3-4 maybe even 5 passes, after he has cut up the defense with screens and forced defenders into switches and/or chasing, getting them out of their comfort zones.

Slo-Mo was a team high +15 against the Raptors in no small part because he is our highest IQ player.
Rudy was -11. only NAW was worse at -17.
You would like to think that we wouldn't have to rely on Slo-Mo as a crutch again with a fully healthy team this year, but he seems to be the only guy who really gets it when it comes to spacing and movement on offense.

Late to this post because too many games to watch. Some good and interesting stuff here. It seems to be better to discuss over some X and O's but will give it a try. If Gobert seal his man successfully, why not just pass to him? If not, he could move off or the ball handler can drive towards him (use him as screen). There is still a lot of variation that can be done. It's essentially a four out with Gobert down the middle. I think the bigger problem is Towns and Ant don't have a good mid range game. It works with KA because he has a better mid range game. Why not ask Ant and Towns learn spacing instead of run Ant ISO every play?

The mid range game is not dead. All the elite players have it. KD, SGA, Fox, etc. Traditional post up works too that was how Naz got a bunch of points in game two. Lob pass can be effective, just watch Luka to Lively.