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Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread)

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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#441 » by KGdaBom » Sat Oct 5, 2024 8:49 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
What do you mean? They have talent and were just as good as us last year, losing to the same team we lost to last year...

Talent = potential. They didn't live up to it. Yeah they lost to the same team we did, but not conference finals. We were better and I think still are. We are also better than Dallas. We were just worn down by the time we faced them. More depth this year. We will stay fresher.


I think people are underestimating what a boost Hartenstein and Caruso are going to be for them.
Chet goes from getting bullied by bigger stronger guys to being a menace as a weakside shotblocker who can roam and move his feet.

Whether or not they take the next IMHO depends on J-Will's ability to be the secondary shot creator and scorer they need him to be.
He had superstar efficiency last year, if he can scale that up, the rest of league is in serious trouble because that team is already loaded and owns enough draft picks to start 2 more expansion teams.

They have potential to be the best. Teams seldom live up to potential. Time will tell.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#442 » by Slim Tubby » Sat Oct 5, 2024 9:34 pm

winforlose wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:We all know what we lost in KAT from a productivity standpoint. However, can anyone really say that we didn't get more overall contributions to winning with Randle and DDV coming back to MIN?

KAT is a tremendous human being and I worry about him and how he copes with the NY media when he plays poorly. The Knicks' bench is terrifyingly shallow and there will be no place to hide if their injury-prone starters go down.

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Counterpoints

1. Randle’s inconsistency from deep creates spacing issues with Rudy.

2. Randle is a stretch 5 whereas Karl was an all NBA C. If Rudy goes down we have very little behind him.

3. Karl is worth more than a possible Randle rental, DDV, a protected first, and KBD. We got too little value back.
I don't disagree with your points. The positional flexibility with KAT that we lost was my biggest concern about the trade.

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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#443 » by Chislic » Sat Oct 5, 2024 11:35 pm

Minnesotan Knicks fan here. We're a rare breed, but we exist. :wink: I like the trade for both teams.

Julius Randle... don't buy into any of the hate. He's a good dude. A bit moody, but the players will like him. When he's locked in, you better lock in. I was there when Julius dropped 57 on you. :nod: You'll like his passing and physicality.

I've watched ALL 82 games regular season games (+playoff games) of Donte DiVincenzo's only season with the Knicks. I thought he did better as a starter, but also produced very will with minutes. When his shot goes up you'll have 3 fingers in the air anticipating a make. Very good defender most nights. There will be players he doesn't match up well against occasionally, but he's scrappy.

Hope this trade works out for you. See you at the Target Center December 19th!
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#444 » by Clav » Sun Oct 6, 2024 12:01 am

What will be Minnesota's best lineup ??

Gobert/Randle/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards ?
+ edwards and randle as initiator

Reid/Randle/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley ?
+ a very balanced lineup where 3 players can play the 5 without being useless outside


Any other ideas of what might be the best lineup we deploy?
Cheers
\m/
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#445 » by KGdaBom » Sun Oct 6, 2024 12:30 am

Clav wrote:What will be Minnesota's best lineup ??

Gobert/Randle/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards ?
+ edwards and randle as initiator

Reid/Randle/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley ?
+ a very balanced lineup where 3 players can play the 5 without being useless outside


Any other ideas of what might be the best lineup we deploy?

Gobert
Reid
Ant
DDV
Conley

That's what I see as our best lineup.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#446 » by TimberKat » Sun Oct 6, 2024 1:06 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Clav wrote:What will be Minnesota's best lineup ??

Gobert/Randle/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards ?
+ edwards and randle as initiator

Reid/Randle/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley ?
+ a very balanced lineup where 3 players can play the 5 without being useless outside


Any other ideas of what might be the best lineup we deploy?

Gobert
Reid
Ant
DDV
Conley

That's what I see as our best lineup.

Naz is great in his 6th man role. I would try Randle first. He could hit open 3s ever other year. Put him in post up for bully ball. Kick out to others. I think they still can run Ant drives using Gobert pick and roll. Doesn't have to be 5 out all the time. Randle can still hit corner 3s, maybe not as efficient as Towns.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#447 » by Colbinii » Sun Oct 6, 2024 1:36 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Clav wrote:What will be Minnesota's best lineup ??

Gobert/Randle/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards ?
+ edwards and randle as initiator

Reid/Randle/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley ?
+ a very balanced lineup where 3 players can play the 5 without being useless outside


Any other ideas of what might be the best lineup we deploy?

Gobert
Reid
Ant
DDV
Conley

That's what I see as our best lineup.


McDaniels is better than Conley.

DDV
ANT
McDaniels
Randle
Gobert
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#448 » by minimus » Sun Oct 6, 2024 6:27 am

winforlose wrote:1. Randle’s inconsistency from deep creates spacing issues with Rudy.


I feel like spacing is the most overrated and underrated thing here. Let me explain. First, I see big difference between "active spacing" and "passive spacing".

Active spacing means that team actively CREATE and USE spacing. By cutting, relocating without the ball, passing the ball, filling corners, creating gaps, setting off ball screens, making good decisions with the ball. Teams like SAC play four out and have GREAT offense

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Randle had NO issues playing next to non shooting Hartenstein. Because Hartenstein is a very smart basketball player. Knicks were 9-1 last season with Randle, Anunoby, Brunson, Hartenstein, DiVincenzo. 126.6 points per 100 possessions in 180 minutes. Here is more familiar example why Anderson is a good offensive player despite being non shooting.

Read on Twitter


Meanwhile "passive spacing" means putting on the floor players who on paper can shoot three and expect a good, modern offense. Good example of it was IND with Myles Turner and Sabonis. On paper both were shooting threes, but in reality in was offensive scheme that made difference. Sabonis got traded to SAC and blossom into a star. Because IMO passing is the next big thing for a bigman, not shooting. If a big can pass it opens so many things for him.

Read on Twitter


Randle will be fine. He is not direct Karl replacement, he is more Anderson replacement. Bigger, more aggressive, more skilled. However, Naz Reid is ALREADY Karl replacement in terms of volume of shooting and acccuracy.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


winforlose wrote:2. Randle is a stretch 5 whereas Karl was an all NBA C. If Rudy goes down we have very little behind him.


Anderson and Reid filled that role for us in last two season. Randle and Reid can do it as well. No need to panic here.

winforlose wrote:3. Karl is worth more than a possible Randle rental, DDV, a protected first, and KBD. We got too little value back.


Another statement that lacks content. Yes, you could possibly traded Towns to let say rebuilding team such as Brooklyn, got expiring contracts and multiple picks. It is much more easier to do with rebuilding teams because they dont have a 2nd apron limits around their neck, like NY. However, trading Towns to a mess like Brooklyn NEVER was an option for Connelly for obvious reason: you dont do it to your best and loyal player.

So trade MUST comply with following requirements:

- trade to East
- trade to Contender
- get a high volume movement shooter
- get a starting PF

Trading to Contender means dealing with all new constraints and rules of new CBA. Technically it was a very complicated trade, which CANNOT be done in regular season.

;t=1s

Finally lets compare DDV contract with other similar players/contracts.

- Malik Monk signed for $78 million over 4 years (average annual value (AAV) — $20 million). No defense
- Josh Hart signed for $80 million over 4 years (AAV — $20 million). Inconsistent 3pt shot
- Klay Thompson extended for $50 million over 3 years (AAV — $20 million). No defense
- Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (KCP) got $66 million over 3 years (AAV — $20 million), and this comparison is particularly interesting because both players (KCP and DiVincenzo) are champions.

Donte DiVincenzo re-signed for $36 million over 3 years. He has a BARGAIN deal. On trade market such player values is at least two FRPs. He is basically a prime Klay Thompson in terms of 3pt shooting volume, accuracy and defense

Read on Twitter


Randle 3× NBA All-Star (2021, 2023, 2024), All-NBA Second Team (2021), All-NBA Third Team (2023).

So if you told me six months ago that we would trade Towns for a prime Klay Thompson copy on a bargain contract and 3 time AllStar power forward on exipiring contract. I would have say you are crazy. But here we are.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#449 » by KGdaBom » Sun Oct 6, 2024 6:42 am

Colbinii wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Clav wrote:What will be Minnesota's best lineup ??

Gobert/Randle/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards ?
+ edwards and randle as initiator

Reid/Randle/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley ?
+ a very balanced lineup where 3 players can play the 5 without being useless outside


Any other ideas of what might be the best lineup we deploy?

Gobert
Reid
Ant
DDV
Conley

That's what I see as our best lineup.


McDaniels is better than Conley.

DDV
ANT
McDaniels
Randle
Gobert

No primary facilitator in that lineup. If we start McDaniels than we shouldn't be starting DDV. I would disagree with you that McDaniels is better than Conley.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#450 » by winforlose » Sun Oct 6, 2024 12:59 pm

minimus wrote:
winforlose wrote:1. Randle’s inconsistency from deep creates spacing issues with Rudy.


I feel like spacing is the most overrated and underrated thing here. Let me explain. First, I see big difference between "active spacing" and "passive spacing".

Active spacing means that team actively CREATE and USE spacing. By cutting, relocating without the ball, passing the ball, filling corners, creating gaps, setting off ball screens, making good decisions with the ball. Teams like SAC play four out and have GREAT offense

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Randle had NO issues playing next to non shooting Hartenstein. Because Hartenstein is a very smart basketball player. Knicks were 9-1 last season with Randle, Anunoby, Brunson, Hartenstein, DiVincenzo. 126.6 points per 100 possessions in 180 minutes. Here is more familiar example why Anderson is a good offensive player despite being non shooting.

Read on Twitter


Meanwhile "passive spacing" means putting on the floor players who on paper can shoot three and expect a good, modern offense. Good example of it was IND with Myles Turner and Sabonis. On paper both were shooting threes, but in reality in was offensive scheme that made difference. Sabonis got traded to SAC and blossom into a star. Because IMO passing is the next big thing for a bigman, not shooting. If a big can pass it opens so many things for him.

Read on Twitter


Randle will be fine. He is not direct Karl replacement, he is more Anderson replacement. Bigger, more aggressive, more skilled. However, Naz Reid is ALREADY Karl replacement in terms of volume of shooting and acccuracy.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


winforlose wrote:2. Randle is a stretch 5 whereas Karl was an all NBA C. If Rudy goes down we have very little behind him.


Anderson and Reid filled that role for us in last two season. Randle and Reid can do it as well. No need to panic here.

winforlose wrote:3. Karl is worth more than a possible Randle rental, DDV, a protected first, and KBD. We got too little value back.


Another statement that lacks content. Yes, you could possibly traded Towns to let say rebuilding team such as Brooklyn, got expiring contracts and multiple picks. It is much more easier to do with rebuilding teams because they dont have a 2nd apron limits around their neck, like NY. However, trading Towns to a mess like Brooklyn NEVER was an option for Connelly for obvious reason: you dont do it to your best and loyal player.

So trade MUST comply with following requirements:

- trade to East
- trade to Contender
- get a high volume movement shooter
- get a starting PF

Trading to Contender means dealing with all new constraints and rules of new CBA. Technically it was a very complicated trade, which CANNOT be done in regular season.

;t=1s

Finally lets compare DDV contract with other similar players/contracts.

- Malik Monk signed for $78 million over 4 years (average annual value (AAV) — $20 million). No defense
- Josh Hart signed for $80 million over 4 years (AAV — $20 million). Inconsistent 3pt shot
- Klay Thompson extended for $50 million over 3 years (AAV — $20 million). No defense
- Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (KCP) got $66 million over 3 years (AAV — $20 million), and this comparison is particularly interesting because both players (KCP and DiVincenzo) are champions.

Donte DiVincenzo re-signed for $36 million over 3 years. He has a BARGAIN deal. On trade market such player values is at least two FRPs. He is basically a prime Klay Thompson in terms of 3pt shooting volume, accuracy and defense

Read on Twitter


Randle 3× NBA All-Star (2021, 2023, 2024), All-NBA Second Team (2021), All-NBA Third Team (2023).

So if you told me six months ago that we would trade Towns for a prime Klay Thompson copy on a bargain contract and 3 time AllStar power forward on exipiring contract. I would have say you are crazy. But here we are.


We know how most teams want to guard Ant because we saw it last year. When Jaden was ice cold and Rudy was a non shooter, adding Kyle killed the space. Randle is a more willing shooter, but he is every bit as inconsistent as Jaden. If you want the lane open for Ant you need guys on the perimeter that defenders cannot leave, is Randle such a player?

2. Anderson is gone, Naz is not a C anymore and does not excel when guarding and rebounding against big body Cs. Karl was gone for a little more than a month. When Karl was healthy he played real minutes at C and started at C when Rudy was out. You gonna start Randle at the 5 and Naz at the 4? That leaves Miller or Garza to back them up. That is a serious weakness.

3. Involve a 3rd team, give them Randle, get a prospect back and a couple more picks, and promote Naz to starting PF. The prospect would backup either PF or C. Move Dozier off the team, keep KBD as your emergency PF, and you’re good. Keeping Randle is questionable at best, money saving move at worst.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#451 » by minimus » Sun Oct 6, 2024 1:04 pm

winforlose wrote:...


You have completely missed all my points.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#452 » by Colbinii » Sun Oct 6, 2024 2:12 pm

minimus wrote:
winforlose wrote:...


You have completely missed all my points.


What else is new

Great post minimus. We may not always see eye to eye but you have presented an excellent, well thought-out breakdown of what you believe can and/or will happen.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#453 » by shangrila » Mon Oct 7, 2024 12:43 am

Colbinii wrote:
minimus wrote:
winforlose wrote:...


You have completely missed all my points.


What else is new

Great post minimus. We may not always see eye to eye but you have presented an excellent, well thought-out breakdown of what you believe can and/or will happen.

Agreed.

Not sure if you're interested in it minimus but you've got a good basis for more longer form articles/blog posts
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#454 » by shangrila » Mon Oct 7, 2024 12:47 am

Clav wrote:What will be Minnesota's best lineup ??

Gobert/Randle/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards ?
+ edwards and randle as initiator

Reid/Randle/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley ?
+ a very balanced lineup where 3 players can play the 5 without being useless outside


Any other ideas of what might be the best lineup we deploy?

Depends on the definition of "best".

I could see a lineup along the lines of NAW-DDV-McDaniels-Randle-Reid having an absurd differential in limited minutes. Overall though I'd say the best will likely be the starters with Reid swapped in for Randle (for spacing)
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#455 » by Klomp » Mon Oct 7, 2024 3:23 am

shangrila wrote:
Clav wrote:What will be Minnesota's best lineup ??

Gobert/Randle/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards ?
+ edwards and randle as initiator

Reid/Randle/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley ?
+ a very balanced lineup where 3 players can play the 5 without being useless outside


Any other ideas of what might be the best lineup we deploy?

Depends on the definition of "best".

I could see a lineup along the lines of NAW-DDV-McDaniels-Randle-Reid having an absurd differential in limited minutes. Overall though I'd say the best will likely be the starters with Reid swapped in for Randle (for spacing)

I'm not far off your best lineup...

Ant-Donte-Jaden-Julius-Naz

Switch everything. Do not underestimate the pressure you can put on an offense when Donte is your third-best perimeter defender in a lineup.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#456 » by FrenchMinnyFan » Mon Oct 7, 2024 4:10 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Gobert
Reid
Ant
DDV
Conley

That's what I see as our best lineup.


McDaniels is better than Conley.

DDV
ANT
McDaniels
Randle
Gobert

No primary facilitator in that lineup. If we start McDaniels than we shouldn't be starting DDV. I would disagree with you that McDaniels is better than Conley.


I disagree too. Jaden is a much better defender but miles away in terms of playmaking and efficiency.
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Re: Karl-Anthony Towns Traded to New York (Official Discussion Thread) 

Post#457 » by minimus » Mon Oct 7, 2024 7:11 am

shangrila wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
minimus wrote:
You have completely missed all my points.


What else is new

Great post minimus. We may not always see eye to eye but you have presented an excellent, well thought-out breakdown of what you believe can and/or will happen.

Agreed.

Not sure if you're interested in it minimus but you've got a good basis for more longer form articles/blog posts


Thank you guys for all the kind words! I really appreciate it! I actually have a telegram channel (named in honor of Naz Reid). I write my 5 cent takes there, not in English of course (ha-ha, I am pretty bad at both). I also participate in Timberwolves related podcasts as a guest and I am learning how to do play-by-play for Wolves games (commentator?). I do all of this as a hobby. I post on this board 10% of content I create.

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