38: Grizzlies at Wolves, 7 pm

[winforlose]

Finch at post game ITW say both team play well. 18TO, 23 more FGA for the Grizz, no defense, destroy at offensive board but we play well...... did not see exactly the same game. We shoot well ( Except ANT), which keep us in the game but the rest....

The Grizzlies played well. The Wolves shot well.

Disagree. DDV was passing and rebounding very well, Jaden was defending well, finding himself in the correct place for easy dunks, Mike was playing two man with Rudy very well. There was less standing around and more off ball movement/screens. Boxing out is a problem, being undersized was a big problem (when Rudy was on the bench and Eddy in the game we were so outsized,) JJJ is a tough matchup for Randle, and Brandon Clark isn’t exactly small. This was a game where Ant and Randle just made too many mistakes, and bad 4th quarter decision making (the DDV quick heat check heave as an example,) doomed us.

[BlacJacMac]

Finch at post game ITW say both team play well. 18TO, 23 more FGA for the Grizz, no defense, destroy at offensive board but we play well...... did not see exactly the same game. We shoot well ( Except ANT), which keep us in the game but the rest....

The Grizzlies played well. The Wolves shot well.

Disagree. DDV was passing and rebounding very well, Jaden was defending well, finding himself in the correct place for easy dunks, Mike was playing two man with Rudy very well. There was less standing around and more off ball movement/screens. Boxing out is a problem, being undersized was a big problem (when Rudy was on the bench and Eddy in the game we were so outsized,) JJJ is a tough matchup for Randle, and Brandon Clark isn’t exactly small. This was a game where Ant and Randle just made too many mistakes, and bad 4th quarter decision making (the DDV quick heat check heave as an example,) doomed us.

I stand by not playing well.

Shooting 57% overall and 41% on 42 3PAs can cover a lot of warts.

Not to mention, we let them speed us up as we tried to match their pace.

[Klomp]

These kinds of games reinvigorate the idea of trading Randle for Ball and Smith.

Biggest issues in the game? Rebounding and turnovers.

To the money thing discussed elsewhere, there would have to be a discussion around whether a potential MLE option could give you what Smith can. There's also a tiny bit of free agency protection baked in, given that Ball is a guard (in case NAW leaves) and Smith is a PF/C (in case Reid leaves). Could you imagine if all three of Randle, Naz and NAW decided to leave in free agency?!

[winforlose]

These kinds of games reinvigorate the idea of trading Randle for Ball and Smith.

Biggest issues in the game? Rebounding and turnovers.

To the money thing discussed elsewhere, there would have to be a discussion around whether a potential MLE option could give you what Smith can. There's also a tiny bit of free agency protection baked in, given that Ball is a guard (in case NAW leaves) and Smith is a PF/C (in case Reid leaves). Could you imagine if all three of Randle, Naz and NAW decided to leave in free agency?!

This game proves Ball is a terrible fit. Plug him for DDV we don’t score enough. Plug him in for Mike and lose the spacing. Ball is a massive problem playing with Rudy and puts a non shooter on the floor with any lineup without Rudy.

[Klomp]

These kinds of games reinvigorate the idea of trading Randle for Ball and Smith.

Biggest issues in the game? Rebounding and turnovers.

To the money thing discussed elsewhere, there would have to be a discussion around whether a potential MLE option could give you what Smith can. There's also a tiny bit of free agency protection baked in, given that Ball is a guard (in case NAW leaves) and Smith is a PF/C (in case Reid leaves). Could you imagine if all three of Randle, Naz and NAW decided to leave in free agency?!

This game proves Ball is a terrible fit. Plug him for DDV we don’t score enough. Plug him in for Mike and lose the spacing. Ball is a massive problem playing with Rudy and puts a non shooter on the floor with any lineup without Rudy.

So DDV, Mike, and Rudy are the only three players who play minutes? What about when they sit?

Minott was a -5 in two minutes....give those minutes to Ball.

[winforlose]

These kinds of games reinvigorate the idea of trading Randle for Ball and Smith.

Biggest issues in the game? Rebounding and turnovers.

To the money thing discussed elsewhere, there would have to be a discussion around whether a potential MLE option could give you what Smith can. There's also a tiny bit of free agency protection baked in, given that Ball is a guard (in case NAW leaves) and Smith is a PF/C (in case Reid leaves). Could you imagine if all three of Randle, Naz and NAW decided to leave in free agency?!

This game proves Ball is a terrible fit. Plug him for DDV we don’t score enough. Plug him in for Mike and lose the spacing. Ball is a massive problem playing with Rudy and puts a non shooter on the floor with any lineup without Rudy.

So DDV, Mike, and Rudy are the only three players who play minutes? What about when they sit?

Minott was a -5 in two minutes....give those minutes to Ball.

Why don’t you propose some lineups and minutes where Ball is not a massive liability? We can talk further once you do. Also, trading Randle two for one means Minott is not getting any minutes. Probably true of Dilly as well.

[BlacJacMac]

This game proves Ball is a terrible fit. Plug him for DDV we don’t score enough. Plug him in for Mike and lose the spacing. Ball is a massive problem playing with Rudy and puts a non shooter on the floor with any lineup without Rudy.

So DDV, Mike, and Rudy are the only three players who play minutes? What about when they sit?

Minott was a -5 in two minutes....give those minutes to Ball.

Why don’t you propose some lineups and minutes where Ball is not a massive liability? We can talk further once you do. Also, trading Randle two for one means Minott is not getting any minutes. Probably true of Dilly as well.

Last 2 games for Ball:

5/9, 5/8, 0/0
4/7, 4/7, 0/0

In 6 January games Ball is shooting 45% overall and 39% from 3. He's averaging over 2 steals in 23 minutes and has a 3/1 AST/TO Ratio.

So maybe his shot is starting to come back?

Even so, he's still a massive positive on the floor for the entire season:

Team:
On Floor: eFG% .572, ORtg: 118.9
Off Floor: eFG% .557, ORtg: 113.0

Opponent:
On Floor: eFG% .523, ORtg: 111.8
Off Floor: eFG% .551, ORtg: 117.7

[Klomp]

Why don’t you propose some lineups and minutes where Ball is not a massive liability?

It's pretty easy actually
Ball / Edwards / DiVincenzo / McDaniels / Reid
Ball / Edwards / DiVincenzo / Reid / Gobert

Alexander-Walker can be subbed in for either Edwards or DiVincenzo, while Smith can be subbed in for either McDaniels or Gobert in the five-man groups.

[winforlose]

So DDV, Mike, and Rudy are the only three players who play minutes? What about when they sit?

Minott was a -5 in two minutes....give those minutes to Ball.

Why don’t you propose some lineups and minutes where Ball is not a massive liability? We can talk further once you do. Also, trading Randle two for one means Minott is not getting any minutes. Probably true of Dilly as well.

Last 2 games for Ball:

5/9, 5/8, 0/0
4/7, 4/7, 0/0

In 6 January games Ball is shooting 45% overall and 39% from 3. He's averaging over 2 steals in 23 minutes and has a 3/1 AST/TO Ratio.

So maybe his shot is starting to come back?

Even so, he's still a massive positive on the floor for the entire season:

Team:
On Floor: eFG% .572, ORtg: 118.9
Off Floor: eFG% .557, ORtg: 113.0

Opponent:
On Floor: eFG% .523, ORtg: 111.8
Off Floor: eFG% .551, ORtg: 117.7

Do me a favor, exclude the last 2 games and give me those numbers again. He had 2 hot shooting nights and you want to say he got his shot back. He had them before 3/4 from deep off the top of my head, he followed it up with multiple games of crap.

[winforlose]

Why don’t you propose some lineups and minutes where Ball is not a massive liability?

It's pretty easy actually
Ball / Edwards / DiVincenzo / McDaniels / Reid
Ball / Edwards / DiVincenzo / Reid / Gobert

Alexander-Walker can be subbed in for either Edwards or DiVincenzo, while Smith can be subbed in for either McDaniels or Gobert in the five-man groups.

Your top lineup is small ball. You actually favor small ball? The bottom lineup is two non shooters. Ant will have packed paint, DDV will always be closed out on, and Naz won’t be able to play in the post. Then again you didn’t mind playing with two non shooters (Kyle and Rudy) so why would you mind now. It is great if you want Ant to be even more frustrated than he is now, and demand out ASAP.

[BlacJacMac]

Why don’t you propose some lineups and minutes where Ball is not a massive liability? We can talk further once you do. Also, trading Randle two for one means Minott is not getting any minutes. Probably true of Dilly as well.

Last 2 games for Ball:

5/9, 5/8, 0/0
4/7, 4/7, 0/0

In 6 January games Ball is shooting 45% overall and 39% from 3. He's averaging over 2 steals in 23 minutes and has a 3/1 AST/TO Ratio.

So maybe his shot is starting to come back?

Even so, he's still a massive positive on the floor for the entire season:

Team:
On Floor: eFG% .572, ORtg: 118.9
Off Floor: eFG% .557, ORtg: 113.0

Opponent:
On Floor: eFG% .523, ORtg: 111.8
Off Floor: eFG% .551, ORtg: 117.7

Do me a favor, exclude the last 2 games and give me those numbers again. He had 2 hot shooting nights and you want to say he got his shot back. He had them before 3/4 from deep off the top of my head, he followed it up with multiple games of crap.

Team:
On Floor: eFG% .572, ORtg: 118.9
Off Floor: eFG% .557, ORtg: 113.0

Opponent:
On Floor: eFG% .523, ORtg: 111.8
Off Floor: eFG% .551, ORtg: 117.7

[minimus]

Healthy Lonzo Ball is a winning player. You can question his health, but not his game.

[winforlose]

Last 2 games for Ball:

5/9, 5/8, 0/0
4/7, 4/7, 0/0

In 6 January games Ball is shooting 45% overall and 39% from 3. He's averaging over 2 steals in 23 minutes and has a 3/1 AST/TO Ratio.

So maybe his shot is starting to come back?

Even so, he's still a massive positive on the floor for the entire season:

Team:
On Floor: eFG% .572, ORtg: 118.9
Off Floor: eFG% .557, ORtg: 113.0

Opponent:
On Floor: eFG% .523, ORtg: 111.8
Off Floor: eFG% .551, ORtg: 117.7

Do me a favor, exclude the last 2 games and give me those numbers again. He had 2 hot shooting nights and you want to say he got his shot back. He had them before 3/4 from deep off the top of my head, he followed it up with multiple games of crap.

Team:
On Floor: eFG% .572, ORtg: 118.9
Off Floor: eFG% .557, ORtg: 113.0

Opponent:
On Floor: eFG% .523, ORtg: 111.8
Off Floor: eFG% .551, ORtg: 117.7

Give me MORE data. Who is on the floor with him, how many non shooters. How many other ball handlers. How many other POA defenders? Who is rim protecting behind him? One non shooter is fine, two is not. Three ball handlers on the floor can work better than 2, how many does he play with? Context is how you make this point. How does it transfer to our team?

[Klomp]

Why don’t you propose some lineups and minutes where Ball is not a massive liability?

It's pretty easy actually
Ball / Edwards / DiVincenzo / McDaniels / Reid
Ball / Edwards / DiVincenzo / Reid / Gobert

Alexander-Walker can be subbed in for either Edwards or DiVincenzo, while Smith can be subbed in for either McDaniels or Gobert in the five-man groups.

Your top lineup is small ball. You actually favor small ball? The bottom lineup is two non shooters. Ant will have packed paint, DDV will always be closed out on, and Naz won’t be able to play in the post. Then again you didn’t mind playing with two non shooters (Kyle and Rudy) so why would you mind now. It is great if you want Ant to be even more frustrated than he is now, and demand out ASAP.

Every team in the NBA runs "sub-lineups." It's like a NFL team switching from their base 4-3 to a nickel, dime or quarters coverage. If you ran these lineups for 48 minutes, sure it wouldn't be ideal. But you see teams run lineups like these over the course of a game all the time.

Jaden's shooting concerns lessen greatly when he slides to the 4 and playing next to a spacer like Naz. We've seen them run these looks many times. And putting them with great 3-point shooters in Edwards, DiVincenzo and Alexander-Walker, the floor is spaced just fine.

[minimus]

Give me MORE data. Who is on the floor with him, how many non shooters. How many other ball handlers. How many other POA defenders? Who is rim protecting behind him? One non shooter is fine, two is not. Three ball handlers on the floor can work better than 2, how many does he play with? Context is how you make this point. How does it transfer to our team?

You don't need more data. Just watch his games. It is similar to Anderson effect in MIN, when he was the only one who knew how to beat zone defense. When he started in place of Gobert or Towns, when he defended Jokic, Valanciunas and Doncic, when he involved Gobert etc. Glue guy who makes everyone on the floor better.

[BlacJacMac]

Do me a favor, exclude the last 2 games and give me those numbers again. He had 2 hot shooting nights and you want to say he got his shot back. He had them before 3/4 from deep off the top of my head, he followed it up with multiple games of crap.

Team:
On Floor: eFG% .572, ORtg: 118.9
Off Floor: eFG% .557, ORtg: 113.0

Opponent:
On Floor: eFG% .523, ORtg: 111.8
Off Floor: eFG% .551, ORtg: 117.7

Give me MORE data. Who is on the floor with him, how many non shooters. How many other ball handlers. How many other POA defenders? Who is rim protecting behind him? One non shooter is fine, two is not. Three ball handlers on the floor can work better than 2, how many does he play with? Context is how you make this point. How does it transfer to our team?

His best 2-man line-up (and many of his Top multi-player line-ups) is with Giddey. A notorious non-shooter.

Actually his line-up data from 2-man through 5-man is an amazing sea of positive numbers. Literally the only 2 players he's not a marked positive with are Julian Phillips and THT.

Dude just absolutely drives winning on both ends of the court. He might be one of the very best "connectors" in the game.