Best Trade Ever?

[Child of Wonder]

Mark Blount + Ricky Davis for Walker + Simien + Doleac + MIA protected 1st

This is hands down the best trade because we then took the trade exception from the deal and got Carney, Booth, and another 1st.

So the deal above is really:

Mark Blount + Ricky Davis for Walker + Simien + Doleac + MIA protected 1st + Carney + Booth + Utah protected 1st

Who would have ever thought we'd get that kind of value for Davis and Blount?

[Vindicater]

The NBA is so stacked these days and guys work so hard for 12 months a year, you have to have the complete package and Roy falls a little short athletically.

You see, I dont understand this at all?

This is what is killing our game. This is why players like Gerald Green and Stromile Swift keep getting shots in the NBA.

Roy has all the skills, he was never badly outplayed by any of the so-called Superstars like Wade/Lebron/Kobe. In fact, when looking back at his numbers,he generally broke even with them. Some games he was better, other games they beat him.

He can score, he can rebound, he can pass, he can defend.

Sure, he might not be able to jump as high as Kobe, or run as fast Wade or be as strong as Lebron. But you know what? Thats okay, None of those three players have the basketball IQ that Roy has.

Roy is not at the same level as these guys yet, and maybe he will never make it either. But to say that he does not have a shot at being a superstar because he's not a freak athlete is ignorant.

[Worm Guts]

He can score, he can rebound, he can pass, he can defend.

Sure, he might not be able to jump as high as Kobe, or run as fast Wade or be as strong as Lebron. But you know what? Thats okay, None of those three players have the basketball IQ that Roy has.

Roy is not at the same level as these guys yet, and maybe he will never make it either. But to say that he does not have a shot at being a superstar because he's not a freak athlete is ignorant.

It's not ignorant, it's a realistic look at Roy's talent. I'm not sure what makes you think Roy has more BBIQ than Kobe, Wade or Lebron. He knows how to play basketball, for sure, but so do those guys.

[Devilzsidewalk]

The NBA is so stacked these days and guys work so hard for 12 months a year, you have to have the complete package and Roy falls a little short athletically.

You see, I dont understand this at all?

This is what is killing our game. This is why players like Gerald Green and Stromile Swift keep getting shots in the NBA.

Roy has all the skills, he was never badly outplayed by any of the so-called Superstars like Wade/Lebron/Kobe. In fact, when looking back at his numbers,he generally broke even with them. Some games he was better, other games they beat him.

He can score, he can rebound, he can pass, he can defend.

Sure, he might not be able to jump as high as Kobe, or run as fast Wade or be as strong as Lebron. But you know what? Thats okay, None of those three players have the basketball IQ that Roy has.

Roy is not at the same level as these guys yet, and maybe he will never make it either. But to say that he does not have a shot at being a superstar because he's not a freak athlete is ignorant.

thats regular season fam.
In a big game against the best...

*flashback*

With the Blazers leading, 83-82, Roy missed a long 3-pointer and Zydrunas Ilgauskas grabbed the rebound and took a timeout with 4.9 seconds left. Damon Jones inbounded the ball to James, who drove to the basket virtually untouched.

Roy and LBJ matchup in the 4th Roy goes 1 for 5 and misses the clinching 3, LBJ goes off for 17 in the 4th and annihilates Roy OTD for an easy layup. Game over. Thats just how it is. LBJ is at the top of the mountain, Roy is not.

How can you be a franchise player if there are several other counterparts at your position that can consistently outplay you with the chips on the line? The Blazers are a collective effort thus far like Detroit. Maybe Oden can be a franchise guy in the future though.

And he (Roy) does have a shot at being elite, I said Aldridge had no shot because he's too far behind in comparison to the elite. Roy has great skills, but as mentioned, so does Kobe Bryant and the like. But Bryant destroys him in physical ability, and for Roy to compensate, he'd have to make what are most likely unrealistic gains in skills. Possible, yes. Probable, no.

[farzi]

^ True, but LeBron has done that to most anyone in the league at one time or another. Basing anything off of 1 time is foolish.

For an extreme counterexample, look at the 4th quarter in the final Lakers - Blazers game. Kobe and Roy were checking eachother. Roy was scoring at will, Kobe struggled. Laker fans on the general game thread acknowledged that Kobe can't guard Roy.

If we went off just off of THAT game, he's going to be a top 5 all time. See, you have to take the whole season and put it in perspective.

[casey]

How can you be a franchise player if there are several other counterparts at your position that can consistently outplay you with the chips on the line?

They can't. I'm not where you get that perception about Roy.

[Devilzsidewalk]

edited for the rare 3x post

[Devilzsidewalk]

whats this, triple post?

chicken butt

[Devilzsidewalk]

^ True, but LeBron has done that to most anyone in the league at one time or another. Basing anything off of 1 time is foolish.

For an extreme counterexample, look at the 4th quarter in the final Lakers - Blazers game. Kobe and Roy were checking eachother. Roy was scoring at will, Kobe struggled. Laker fans on the general game thread acknowledged that Kobe can't guard Roy.

If we went off just off of THAT game, he's going to be a top 5 all time. See, you have to take the whole season and put it in perspective.

in a game where they were out of the playoffs and the Lakers were locked? Thats not really the high stakes stuff I'm talking about. And he didn't struggle that much, he still got 34/5/5 and went to the line 13 times. And Roy got a lot of help as Frye and Aldridge both had 20/10 games

Maybe my standards for franchise player are too high. And I'm probably a hypocrite because I think Big Al is absolutely going to be a franchise guy and soon and he's given up numbers too and his team has played zero meaningful games.

But Kobe, Wade, and LBJ always put up huge numbers on Roy. Wade w/ a 21/10/9 and 37/5. Kobe w/ a 33/7/5 and a 34/5/5, LBJ w/ a 37/14/ 2 blocks, 2 steals, and a 24/11/10 next game. LBJ is the King and I think the best in the NBA, but Roy didn't do anything on offense either game against him. Kobe and Wade had some monster performances against the King, Kobe a 33/12/6 after a 21/5/5 "off game" the first time, Wade w/ a 22/8/6 and a classic 42/7/6.

Roy is great, he's just not at the top. I don't see what the problem is, its not a knock, he plays winning basketball. Maybe in another era he'd be at the top, but in this era he's got some guys in front of him. Maybe in another era Mitch Richmond would've been at the top, but unfortunately he had Jordan in front of him.

Anyways, I like to keep the "franchise player" moniker for the top 3 or so at their positions. The unstoppable. Its poorly defined, mostly just my opinion on how elite a guy truly is and whether he can be an equal to any other at his position in a playoff atmosphere

[Worm Guts]

If you look at the numbers, it's pretty difficult to compare Roy to Kobe, Wade, Lebron. Roy put 19,6 and 5 last season. Lebron's younger and put 30, 8 and 7 last season; at Roy's age Wade put up 24,7 and 5; Kobe put up 28, 5, and 6.

[thegreatblaze]

^^Good thing Roy isn't all about numbers.

And to the guy who said Roy isn't very athletic, that's just flat out wrong. He has a 41" vert and can be extremely explosive at times. Thing is, he never relies on his athleticism. He's a smart player that is very, very unselfish, maybe too unselfish.

[Worm Guts]

^^Good thing Roy isn't all about numbers.

I'm not sure what you mean by that but I have a hard believing that you or anyone else thinks Roy is in the same category as those other guys. I think the numbers are reflective of the talent gap.

And to the guy who said Roy isn't very athletic, that's just flat out wrong. He has a 41" vert and can be extremely explosive at times. Thing is, he never relies on his athleticism. He's a smart player that is very, very unselfish, maybe too unselfish.

No one said that Roy isn't athletic, but he doesn't have elite athleticism like Wade, Kobe, or Lebron. Do you really disagree with that?

[thegreatblaze]

I'm not sure what you mean by that but I have a hard believing that you or anyone else thinks Roy is in the same category as those other guys. I think the numbers are reflective of the talent gap.

To answer your question first...no, I do not think Roy is in the same category as these guys at the present moment.

But my point is, anyone who knows Roy or watches him play realizes that his importance to the Blazers goes farther than the numbers on the stat sheet. He has great leadership and is very clutch. I wish he was a little more selfish though, he may be the most unselfish player I've ever seen. He took under 16 shots per game last year. He really doesn't demand a lot of shots, and I believe he could be a mid-20's scorer if he takes 20-22 shots like some of these other players. But overall, his cool and calming demeanor is a big reason why we surpassed peoples expectations this past season.

No one said that Roy isn't athletic, but he doesn't have elite athleticism like Wade, Kobe, or Lebron. Do you really disagree with that?

Well people said below that he 'falls short athletically' and that he isn't a great athlete. I disagree.

Again, Roy does not rely on his athleticism like these other guys (maybe Kobe to a lesser degree), the fact that he has a 41" vert should speak for itself, and he has proven to be very explosive when he chooses to be. Sometimes I wish he used it more often.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Again, Roy does not rely on his athleticism like these other guys (maybe Kobe to a lesser degree), the fact that he has a 41" vert should speak for itself, and he has proven to be very explosive when he chooses to be. Sometimes I wish he used it more often.

so when I say he falls short athletically in comparison to Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade, you read "isn't a great athlete"?


and his vertical test isn't very meaningful to athleticism. Kevin Love tested better than Amare in that dept. Jordan Farmar also has a 41" vertical in his testing. Does that make him a better athlete than Arenas? Because Gilbert posted a 36" vert in his combine testing, but his predraft coach - former olympian Milan Tiff - said he could be a sub 10 second 100 meter sprinter if he would've trained to be an olympic sprinter.

There is a lot of room between "unathletic" and "the most athletic in the NBA". Saying Roy isn't in the latter category doesn't automatically place him in the former.

[Vindicater]

I was not saying Roy is on the same level as Kobe, Wade/Lebron/Etc.

All I was saying is that you have basically writtin him off as never having the chance to be that good because hes not a freak athlete like thoe guys.

The guys has been in the NBA for two seasons and your allready saying he cant be a top player in the NBA.

As I said before, Roy is not at their level, and hell, chances are good that he might never get to their level. But to say that he does not have a chance to be that good based on athletic merits alone? PLease.

Go tell Steve Nash, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and John Stockton about how good an athlete they all are. All four of those guys are probably ranked in consencus top five ALL-TIME at their position and all four are not athletic freaks.

Again, Roy does not compare to these guys yet (hes only been around 2 seasons after all) but merely raising a point thhat freakish atheltic ability is not how to judge a basketball player merit.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I don't get it, are you also OdenRoyLMA2

[casey]

The guys has been in the NBA for two seasons and your allready saying he cant be a top player in the NBA.

Before he even played a game in the NBA some people on this board were saying he already topped out on his potential.

[Vindicater]

those people were and probably still are idiots

[schaffy]

So for Devilzsidewalk it means clutch. But under that definition, has Kobe won sans Shaq; what has Lebron ever won; and was it Wade being clutch or the Mavericks choking it away?

Has Shaq ever won without an incredibly gifted SG with him (Penny, Kobe, Wade)

See: LeBron vs Detroit 2007