At the Trade Deadline

[Worm Guts]

I don't like how undersized we are up front, and I think we eventually have to chose between Love and Jefferson.

Fun little debate... I don't think a Love/Jefferson full-time frontcourt is really that undersized. Is Detroit undersized (Wallace/Wallace went 6'10" and 6'7", and Wallace/McDyess was 6'10"/6'9")? How about the Nuggets or (as Devilz pointed out) the Jazz? And that's leaving out all the teams that play uptempo and so are undersized by choice.

I'm with shrink... love Johnson, but not at the cost of Jefferson. Jefferson is as close to untouchable as any Wolf can be. It would take a 1st team all-NBAer for the Wolves to move him, IMO.

Rasheed is listed at 6'11.

You can get away with being undersized if the guys are quick and explosive like the Wallaces. You can't get away with being undersized if you're Jefferson and Love.

[Worm Guts]

I admire Joe Johnson's ability, but SG is not where this team needs to invest.

This team needs a go to guy on the perimeter. Maybe Foye or McCants turn into that guy, but it's highly doubtful either will ever be as good as Johnson. Mainly though, I think the Wolves need to not have their two best players play same position.

[revprodeji]

You can get away with lack of height if both guys are strong and good rebounders. Al and Love are both decent shot blockers too. If you play them together you should have an advantage on the boards and in the paint. I do not think the size issue is much with them.

[ChazzleDazzle]

I admire Joe Johnson's ability, but SG is not where this team needs to invest.

I would argue that, as this team is currently constructed, SG is exactly where our biggest need is. I think Miller is showing that he can't guard most 2's, and McCants seems better off as a 6th man... As is, I don't think we have a true starting SG.

Plus, I think it's easier to acquire a stud SG or SF than any other position. Dominant C's, PG's and even low post 4's are pretty highly valued, unless you're Memphis. Johnson fits for me because he makes it less important for Foye to be a true PG, and he's in the right age range. You're right that he'll be leaving that prime age just about the time Love is coming into his own, so maybe there is a better fit...

I do think, however, that if we want a dominant center, we're going to have to draft him. No one will trade away a dominant center (the Shaq situation was unique, I think), so we'd either have to take a chance on a young guy who hasn't lived up to his potential, or an older guy who's outlived his performance.

[shrink]

Plus, I think it's easier to acquire a stud SG or SF than any other position. Dominant C's, PG's and even low post 4's are pretty highly valued, unless you're Memphis.

I agree with this take, and I'd add that its easier to develop SG's and SF's too. I think since every team except for the Wolves have a dominant swingman, we may overvalue them. In fact, that very fact limits the number of possible buyers for a guy like Joe Johnson, and makes his trade price far less than Al Jefferson.

I think if ATL wanted to trade Joe, you could get him for Brewer and McCants, or at least Foye and McCants, and we wouldn't need to touch Al. I just dont see other teams making better offers -- or at least they'd just try to pick him up in free agency. Joe Johnson expires in 2010 -- we could keep our assets and wait, right?

[Worm Guts]

You can get away with lack of height if both guys are strong and good rebounders. Al and Love are both decent shot blockers too. If you play them together you should have an advantage on the boards and in the paint. I do not think the size issue is much with them.

There's defensive issues which are hard to deny. The quickness issues might be more important than the size issues.
I'm not saying Love and Jefferson definitely won't work together. I'm saying their weaknesses overlap enough that it's possible that it will be a problem, and if we get the opportunity to diversify our strengths, it's something we should look at.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Rasheed is listed at 6'11.

And Love is listed at 6'10". My Dad can beat up your Dad... point is none of the Detroit guys have/had ideal size, but they're explosive, as you say, and have very high basketball IQs.

You can get away with being undersized if the guys are quick and explosive like the Wallaces. You can't get away with being undersized if you're Jefferson and Love.

You're right, although Love's explosiveness is underrated. He's not a terrible athlete, and he'll look better when he's adjusted to the speed and pace of the NBA game.

I guess I'd sign on to a Jefferson for LeBron trade (duh.) Or even Jefferson for Johnson and another commodity... Johnson and Horford for Jefferson? That would be an intriguing lineup:

Brewer/Miller
Love/Gomes
Horford/Collins
Johnson/McCants
Foye/Telfair

I think ATL would consider that. But for the Wolves, there has to be another player if Jefferson is traded. Otherwise the value just isn't there, IMO.

[Worm Guts]

I think if ATL wanted to trade Joe, you could get him for Brewer and McCants, or at least Foye and McCants, and we wouldn't need to touch Al. I just dont see other teams making better offers -- or at least they'd just try to pick him up in free agency. Joe Johnson expires in 2010 -- we could keep our assets and wait, right?

Atlanta's not going to trade Johnson for Foye-McCants unless they want to trade Johnson. They might trade Johnson for Jefferson just because they want Jefferson.

[Worm Guts]

Rasheed is listed at 6'11.

And Love is listed at 6'10". My Dad can beat up your Dad... point is none of the Detroit guys have/had ideal size, but they're explosive, as you say, and have very high basketball IQs..

Fine, forget about size, quickness or any other physical attributes. Love and Jefferson aren't in the same realm defensively as the Wallaces. Both Wallaces and All-NBA type defenders. I'm not sure either Al or Kevin would be considered average defensively at this point.

You can get away with being undersized if the guys are quick and explosive like the Wallaces. You can't get away with being undersized if you're Jefferson and Love.

You're right, although Love's explosiveness is underrated. He's not a terrible athlete, and he'll look better when he's adjusted to the speed and pace of the NBA game.

I guess I'd sign on to a Jefferson for LeBron trade (duh.) Or even Jefferson for Johnson and another commodity... Johnson and Horford for Jefferson? That would be an intriguing lineup:

Brewer/Miller
Love/Gomes
Horford/Collins
Johnson/McCants
Foye/Telfair

I think ATL would consider that. But for the Wolves, there has to be another player if Jefferson is traded. Otherwise the value just isn't there, IMO.

I think you're overrating Jefferson's trade value if you think he could net Johnson-Horford. I think Jefferson for Johnson is a fair deal. There's definitely not an Al Horford difference.
If I'm wrong and Jefferson's value is that high, then we should trade him tomorrow.

[shrink]

I think if ATL wanted to trade Joe, you could get him for Brewer and McCants, or at least Foye and McCants, and we wouldn't need to touch Al. I just dont see other teams making better offers -- or at least they'd just try to pick him up in free agency. Joe Johnson expires in 2010 -- we could keep our assets and wait, right?

Atlanta's not going to trade Johnson for Foye-McCants unless they want to trade Johnson. They might trade Johnson for Jefferson just because they want Jefferson.[/quote]

I think you can overpay to get almost anybody, but I agree with you.

I assume that if Joe Johnson is available, we could make an offer without Al that would be better than anyone else's. If not, we could make the same offer for, say, Michael Redd, or Jason Richardson, etc. etc. I think this is why you didn't see anyone step up to pay Ben Gordon obscene amounts of money in a trade -- because they are already paying some swingman on their team obscene amounts of money to score. I don't know if ATL will be looking to rebuild if they are mediocre mid-season, but SOME team will be, and their first task will be to find a buyer for that expensive vet swingmen. I don't think there will be a lot of buyers, and our offer won't need to include Al Jefferson. In any event, there's no rush to do it now and overpay.

[Worm Guts]

I think if ATL wanted to trade Joe, you could get him for Brewer and McCants, or at least Foye and McCants, and we wouldn't need to touch Al. I just dont see other teams making better offers -- or at least they'd just try to pick him up in free agency. Joe Johnson expires in 2010 -- we could keep our assets and wait, right?

Atlanta's not going to trade Johnson for Foye-McCants unless they want to trade Johnson. They might trade Johnson for Jefferson just because they want Jefferson.

I think you can overpay to get almost anybody, but I agree with you.

I assume that if Joe Johnson is available, we could make an offer without Al that would be better than anyone else's. If not, we could make the same offer for, say, Michael Redd, or Jason Richardson, etc. etc. I think this is why you didn't see anyone step up to pay Ben Gordon obscene amounts of money in a trade -- because they are already paying some swingman on their team obscene amounts of money to score. I don't know if ATL will be looking to rebuild if they are mediocre mid-season, but SOME team will be, and their first task will be to find a buyer for that expensive vet swingmen. I don't think there will be a lot of buyers, and our offer won't need to include Al Jefferson. In any event, there's no rush to do it now and overpay.[/quote]

I see Joe Johnson as a significantly better player than Michael Redd, Jason Richardson or Ben Gordon. Johnson passes, rebounds, scores volume and shoots 40% from 3. He's an awesome overall player compared to those other guys you mentioned who are mostly one dimensional scorers or have significant flaws.