DAL-TOR-MN

[shrink]

This is a variation on JES12's trade that seems to be getting some positive feedback.

Dallas trades: Howard, Diop, Stack, Wright
Dallas receives: Miller, O'neal, Moon

(same deal) Dallas gets some reseblense of a post player, but more of a defensive player to complement Damp & Dirk while watering down the swing. We add more money this year and next, but we trim Diop's contract down to 2 -- jes.

Toronto trades: Moon, O'neal, 1st
Toronto receives Howard, Diop, Cardinal, UTA 1st (Top 23 prot)

Compared to the original deal *, this changes Stack to Cardinal ($4.75 more in 2009-10), but the Raptors keep the useful Parker, and they get the protected UTA 1st. I don't know if I like this though -- TOR adds better stuff at a fair price, but do the Raptors want better talent or money? Cardinal will be a valuable expiring this summer, and the UTA 1st might be delayed until next year (Top 17 protected in 2010), and deferring the pick a year might be a good thing.

Minnesota trades: Mike Miller, Cardinal, UTA 1st (Top 23 prot)
Minnesota receives: Stack, Wright, Tor 1st

They take a production downgrade and use a 1st to move Cardinal, but create much more cap room.

* original deal http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Here's a better breakdown for MIN:

The TOR pick is #11 right now.

Wright is on a decent $1.8 mil contract for 2 years. He's a 6' 7" SG and can play a little defense. The deal works fine financially if we send him to TOR.

We get a $6.5 mil TPE this season, and we'd be far enough under the lux to use it. Its worth more than cash in trade value .. double or more to teams over the lux. Its easily worth an additional pick or a very good prospect.

Stackhouse is only guaranteed for $2 mil next season, so with Wright's $1.8 mil, we clear almost $13 mil in 2009 cap space, and are far enough under the cap to offer a max deal in free agency, or more likely, trade the cap space for a star player on a rebuilding team.

[shrink]

TOR has mentioned an interest in McCants in other threads, so this deal could also serve as a bridge

Dallas trades: Howard, Diop, Stack, Wright
Dallas receives: Miller, O'neal, Moon

Toronto trades: Moon, O'neal, 1st
Toronto receives Howard, McCants, Diop, Cardinal

Minnesota trades: Mike Miller, Cardinal, McCants
Minnesota receives: Stack, Wright, Tor 1st

.. this just sends out McCants but we keep the UTA pick.

[GopherIt!]

I think this takes us backwards. We give up a valuable player for a mere ~2 mil extra in cap space and a possible few slots increase with a first round pick in a (likely) weak draft. Plus we now have an additional roster spot tied up next year to a marginal player (Stack & Wright vs just Cardinal)

Are you trying to clear cap space to sign someone like M Williams??? Perhaps we can move Gomes and/or Cookie. If we have Williams, Miller, Brewer & Foye at the wings we won't have any room for Gomes at SF anyway. This assumes though that you are targeting Williams.

I wouldn't touch any more 1st rounders this year with a ten foot pole. In fact, I wouldn't mind if we actually gave up one or two of our later picks vs getting saddled down with guaranteed contracts for guys who will end up marginal pro prospects. Ask JES what he thinks of Maurice Ager!

[shrink]

I think this takes us backwards. We give up a valuable player for a mere ~2 mil extra in cap space and a possible few slots increase with a first round pick in a (likely) weak draft.

To be fair, its $13 mil in extra cap space, and a $6.5 mil TPE this season. ($15.5 mil/ $9 mil with McCants-UTA pick option)

The TOR pick is likely late lottery (11-13), maybe a little better if you think JO > Josh Howard.


I'm not against using up some the picks we have ... in general, I just want to do so to get better picks for next year's draft .. in my mind, potential lottery picks.

To me, either deal is a little better than the Cavs deal. It's a couple mil less cap space next season and we lose the prot Uta pick, but we upgrade the pick from 28-ish to 12-ish, and a very valuable TPE we could use now .. say for an expiring + something decent.

[C.lupus]

I think I like it. I can't keep all the TPE/CBA facts straight in my head, though. What are the specifics on the TPE? Would we have to use it before season's end? If so, is there someone in mind to use it on?

[shrink]

I think I like it. I can't keep all the TPE/CBA facts straight in my head, though. What are the specifics on the TPE? Would we have to use it before season's end? If so, is there someone in mind to use it on?

The way I keep it straight is that its basically completing a trade at a later date. You've got one year to use a TPE, they can't be combined with players or other TPE's.

The best places to use them are on teams that are over the lux. For example, a couple years back PHO traded Kurt Thomas' expiring + two late 1sts for a $9 mil TPE (though it might have been cap space). It made sense for PHO because they were over the lux, and while Thomas may have been worth $4 mil, he wasn't worth $18 mil ($9 mil x 2). Adding in two late 1sts, that could be sold for $3 mil each), still makes the deal a major win for PHO financially, while it clearly angered fans. TPE's and cap space are liquid gold.

I'd really like to do something like trading for the TPE for an expiring and nice compensation, so the expiring doesn't affect our 2009 cap space. I'd consider a 2-year deal, but the compensation should be really big then. Its hard to know precisely who's over the lux right now, but using storyteller's latest (1/4/09) numbers ..

BOSTON 80,384,135
CLEVELAND 90,843,932
DALLAS 94,305,853
LA LAKERS 81,812,711

DETROIT 73,105,272
HOUSTON 71,411,753
NEW YORK 97,785,451
PHOENIX 76,215,165
TORONTO 72,249,093 (My numbers say the Hassan Adamas deal wasn't quite enough, but I could be wrong)

I set aside the first four, who are major contenders that probably aren't considering finances right now. Of the five remaining, it might be good to upgrade things with the three that are close. My first target would be PHO. Sarver has LONGED to get under the lux for years, and he's finally gotten somewhat close. I'd look at something like TPE for Barbosa, and we get Robin Lopez for Booth. Make it a three-teamer, sending Barbosa somewhere for an expiring back to us. PHO fills roster with vet min or cheap guys. The deal gets PHO under the lux in both years, so it probably saves Sarver over $25 mil. Maybe PHO sweetens it further .. its a lot of money.

However, that's just off the top of my head. All I can say is that a big TPE that we can use without going into the lux ourselves (unlike what most everyone else has), would have trememndous trade value.

[C.lupus]

Thanks. Maybe one of these times this stuff will stick in my feable brain.

I'm down for this trade now. I was one who really didn't want to move Miller but he has been extremely dissapointing this year and really isn't contributing much of anything. We might as well get some value from his contract and sign someone who may fit better.

[GopherIt!]

I think this takes us backwards. We give up a valuable player for a mere ~2 mil extra in cap space and a possible few slots increase with a first round pick in a (likely) weak draft.

To be fair, its $13 mil in extra cap space, and a $6.5 mil TPE this season. ($15.5 mil/ $9 mil with McCants-UTA pick option)

The TOR pick is likely late lottery (11-13), maybe a little better if you think JO > Josh Howard.


I'm not against using up some the picks we have ... in general, I just want to do so to get better picks for next year's draft .. in my mind, potential lottery picks.

To me, either deal is a little better than the Cavs deal. It's a couple mil less cap space next season and we lose the prot Uta pick, but we upgrade the pick from 28-ish to 12-ish, and a very valuable TPE we could use now .. say for an expiring + something decent.

I didn't see the TPE.

Wouldn't we assume that Howard>JO and that if he goes to Toronto that they will win a few more games and possibly make the playoffs? (Thus devaluing their pick a bit.) They are only 2 games behind current 7th seed (New Jersey) and 1.5 games behind current 8th seed Milwaukee. Still probably better than the Utah pick. I'm just concerned that this year could be like the 2000 draft in which there will be very few good players. Whether the pick is 12 or 28 they might not be a good prospect. Ironically, one of the few good players out of 2000 was Mike Miller. Brian Cardinal was drafted that year as well. Go figure!

I agree that it is better than the Cavs deal.

[younggunsmn]

That is horrible value for mike miller, considering what we gave up for him.
At the very LEAST I'd want Jamario Moon coming to us in the trade.
And a 2010 1st unstead of 2009, Toronto is on the decline and '09 draft depth sucks.

Dallas cripples their long term hopes here by giving up their only decent young player.

jermaine O'neal is done as a reliable player in this league, his knees are shot and his attitude is even worse.