What would you give up for Noah?

[shrink]

Amazing how many people in Minnesota dislike the guy just because of the way he looks and his demonstrative personality...

"Demonstrative personality." I love it! It is a polite way of saying ....?

[Dewey]

We'd be crazy to turn down a good deal to acquire Noah. I hesitate to even comment because it's unlikey it'll happen. Thereare tons of moron's out there in the NBA, lets not isolate a bunch of problems to one young guy.

I agree, putting McCants in a package for Noah would be terrific.

[deeney0]

I like Noah more than most people, but Al and Love need to play MORE together, not less. I'm against adding any front court players in the near future.

[karch34]

I like Noah more than most people, but Al and Love need to play MORE together, not less. I'm against adding any front court players in the near future.

Agree they need to play together more. I think that's the master plan as they're trying to bring Love along albeit slowly sometimes.

That said having another option with size that could potentially fit in the rotation long term is something we should look at. Love and Jefferson won't play all 48 minutes. We all love Rhino, but there's certain matchups where he's not going to be the ideal option and the others don't appear to be viable options either based on playing time.

[PeeDee]

We need Rubio and Pekovic on this team stat.

[GopherIt!]

I like Noah more than most people, but Al and Love need to play MORE together, not less. I'm against adding any front court players in the near future.

Agree they need to play together more. I think that's the master plan as they're trying to bring Love along albeit slowly sometimes.

That said having another option with size that could potentially fit in the rotation long term is something we should look at. Love and Jefferson won't play all 48 minutes. We all love Rhino, but there's certain matchups where he's not going to be the ideal option and the others don't appear to be viable options either based on playing time.

That's what I've been thinking for a while too. I could see Jefferson-Love-Noah with the later pair rotating off the bench becoming a quality front line trio in a year or two. Jefferson-Love-Pekovic seems too redundant. As for Smith, he just doesn't fit here if both Al & Love stay.

[C.lupus]

That's what I've been thinking for a while too. I could see Jefferson-Love-Noah with the later pair rotating off the bench becoming a quality front line trio in a year or two. Jefferson-Love-Pekovic seems too redundant. As for Smith, he just doesn't fit here if both Al & Love stay.

I've been thinking the same thing. I think Pekovic will be good but I would rather add someone with some height and defensive ability to mix it up more. We just have too many offensive-oriented PFs here.

[PeeDee]

I'm pretty sure Pek is being brought here to bang, rough people up, use fouls and be a dump off dunk guy. He'll be guarding the centers of the NBA and I trust an athletic beefy guy like him to do that more than I trust a skinny 'center' like Noah.

Pek was drafted because he's strong and mean and efficient, not because he has anywhere near the offensive game of Jefferson or even Love. I don't think he's redundant at all.

On offense he'll be setting hard screens and running to the rim for dunks, Pek and Roll, baby.

On defense he'll be making dudes on the block work to get position. The only thing we have to worry about is his help defense, that's the only way I see him being redundant with Love and Al.

[C.lupus]

If he does that, then I'm good. I still think a big, defensive guy would be good to throw in the mix, though. What worries me (besides the fact that he looks like Malcolm in the Middle on steroids) is Draftexpress' writeup:

Comparisons:
Best Case: Al Jefferson
Worst Case: Rasho Nesterovic

Strengths:

• Productivity at highest level outside NBA
• Top center in the Euroleague
• Strength
• Frame
• Wingspan
• Hands
• Ability to establish position inside
• Back to the basket scoring
• Finishing with either hand
• Supreme toughness
• Throws body around in paint
• Offensive rebounding
• Defensive rebounding
• Setting screens
• Rarely misses from close range
• Extremely efficient
• Mid-range jumper
• Doesn’t make mistakes
• Late bloomer
• Very little downside

Weaknesses:

• Big enough to play center?
• Average athleticism
• Fundamentals
• Range on shot
• Lateral quickness
• Defensive potential
• Average basketball IQ
• Half-court player
• Ball-handling skills
• Passing ability

Sounds like a good rebounding, half-court, low post scorer who is a bit undersized, unathletic and slow with questionable defensive potential. Sounds like a couple guys I know.

[revprodeji]

The write up was written before he grew. He has gained almost 20lbs of muscle since the write-up. I think DX explains that.

Pek is not a defensive power, but he is mean. He is strong and will be aggressive. He will be a nice 3rd wheel.

[PeeDee]

Agreed. I think our defense will be predicated on hustle and strength in the future. If it works, I can see our 3 big lugs making people work harder than they want to, thus wearing them out.

[revprodeji]

Would help if our wings could keep a man in front of them.

The team I coach starts 2 sf's, 2 sg's and a pg. Defensively we are top because of the help defense and hustle.

[mamba81]

I'd give up a couple of Mountain Dews for him.





Wait, no I want those Dews, I don't want him.

[GopherIt!]

Pee Dee, I finally realized your picture is from Troll 2. haha

True, Pek is about an inch taller than Al and could potentially bang around a little better in the middle, I agree with that. But aren't the strengths of his game are likely to be very similar to Al and to a lesser extent Love? If we are game planning, I just don't see a significant difference choosing between Pek and Al, say if we need a critical defensive stop. I just feel like we need one of our big men to stand out as a quality defender. Noah is certainly still too skinny right now and isn't there yet, but I do think one day he could fill that role for us pretty well.

Just for comparison, Detroit did this well with a trio of Sheed, Dyess and Big Ben. None of those guys are huge (or were ever superstars) but they each brought their own unique skill set to help in the Pistons front court. They could play the chess match with opposing teams and almost always hold their own. My hope is that the Wolves find three guys who compliment each other the way the Pistons did during their most recent run.

[PeeDee]

Best worst movie, yo.

[shrink]

This is going to be one of what I am sure is many Joakim Noah e-mails. I just don't get it. This is a guy who at Florida was a team leader and really gave his all on the court with excellent hustle and (what I thought was, though I could have been mistaken) good court sense. What is his problem? It almost seems like apathy because I give him credit for being smart enough to understand the game. That is also the only reason I can come up with for being so out of shape.

Lee

Sam: I can't say I saw it coming, either. He just seems not to want to work and has this sense of entitlement that is hardly earned. To paraphrase Denny Green, he's not what we thought he was and we took him anyway. I really thought he'd be a good piece because of the "skill" the scouts talk about as "energy" or "motor." It seemed a seven-footer who ran the court relentlessly would come up with 15 points of easy baskets every game and drive guys like Rasheed Wallace nuts. I was all for the pick at the time. But Noah came in with a bad attitude right away. He refused to do the harmless rookie stuff, like carrying bags and buying donuts, and held himself above the team and other players for some reason. I wonder if he has something like attention deficit hyperactivity, because he did finally admit this week in talking to the Daily Herald that he forgets the plays and is working on that, and that he is finally embarrassed about being perceived the way you perceive him, and is determined to change all that. Del Negro singled him and Tyrus Thomas out as a challenge, so we'll see how much pride he has. I thought he played well against the Knicks the other night and has had some moments, albeit brief. The team really needs him and he could really benefit with the style the team is playing now trying to run and keep the floor open. Which should provide more rebounding opportunities without the physical play Noah isn't ready for given how weak and skinny he is. He came in as a guy who seemed to have lots of interests beyond basketball and would be intriguing to talk with. Many in the media looked forward to that as the Bulls have a relatively quiet group short on much interesting to say, if not bad guys. But Noah almost immediately was difficult to just about everyone. He'd stay in the trainer's room or shower even when he had a good game to avoid reporters and seemed to like to make reporters run after him. He seemed to seek out foreign reporters and talk while avoiding the Americans. International writers would tell the local writers Noah had loads of bad things to say about the U.S. reporters and wasn't going to be cooperative. He closed himself off so much that he seemed perpetually angry and resentful. He didn't make many friends in the locker room. But if in his second season he figures it out, it's hardly too late and worth the wait. It's never too late when you are 23.

The Bulls placed Joakim Noah on the inactive list for Friday’s game against the 76ers after the rookie forward engaged in an angry exchange with assistant coach Ron Adams at the team’s morning shootaround.

Two team sources said Noah kept forgetting plays and blowing assignments during the walkthrough, then snapped when Adams kept riding him.

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/nba-news/j ... 46947.html

[shrink]

In the interest of being "fair and balanced," I thought this was a good post too:

That article tells one side of the story.

I have hear a ton of discussion about the other side from UF alumni, both people who know Noah personally and people who know Donovan personally. Noah has apparently been in contact with lots of folks here and voiced a lot of frustration about how things have gone so far.

His core problem with his teammates is that in his opinion, most of them are losers, guys who don't care or try very hard on a regular basis. That's a brash call for a Rookie to make, and pretty much an untenable position, but he was right. Guys like Larry Hughes and Ben Gordon coasting and holding out for ridiculous money make a mockery of players who actually want to compete. The whole Ben Wallace fiasco.

He doesn't respect these guys, and in many cases they earned it. Unfortunately, he tried to buck the NBA pecking order as a rookie and got ostracized (more so than isolating himself.) Being disliked by teammates has been hard on him given his previous experiences as a leader and rallying point. As far as the press stuff . . . I think it goes without saying that he has felt unfairly treated by the Chicago press since in his mind, "the other guys are the losers." Take editorial opinion of him with a grain of salt

He needs to get out of there. His temperament and his psychological energy will never work in a losing locker room. Unfortunately that also makes it highly unlikely that he can ever be the kind of player to turn a bad team around. His motor was/is for real. If he's not running on all cylinders right now effort and focus wise that is at some level a result of the poor circumstances in Chicago when he got there.

He's also probably smoking too much weed.

I was not a Noah fan during his time at UF. I did not get fired up by his antics, and thought him something of an idiot. I became a fan when I watched him play in the NBA at 110% effort vs. the slugs that go through the motions in the NBA paint. He's not Tim Duncan, and never will be, but he's better than what the Bulls are getting out of him now. If his value is bottoming out, it a very low cost high potential pickup.

[GopherIt!]

great reads, thanks Shrink.