Expirings to trade for

[PeeDee]

A lot of us would like to see the Wolves opt for a bit of financial flexability this offseason.
Heres a list of guys that fit the following criteria:

1. Player has an expiring contract
2. Player plays on a team that could use Miller (our best trade asset)

Here we go:

Miller, Cardinal/Collins and McCants/Madsen for Shawn Marion

Miller, Cardinal and Collins for Stephon Marbury

Miller for Ron Artest and Luther Head

Miller for Rasho and Josh McRoberts (whitest trade ever)

Miller for Drew Gooden and Cedric Simmons

Miller and Cardinal/Collins for Wally Szerbiak

Miller and McCants/Madsen for Eric Snow and Sasha Pavlovich(unguaranteed)

Miller for Jerry Stackhouse(unguaranteed), Gerald Green and James Singleton

Miller for Stomile Swift and Jarvis Hayes

Miller for Andre Miller

That whole Portland deal in the other thread...

Miller for Mikki Moore(unguaranteed) and Sheldon Williams

Theres probably more but my eyes started to glaze over. Are any of these more likely than others? Do you want to see Miller traded?

Of course we could always just go right for the jugular and trade for Marvin Williams now.

Miller for Marvin Williams, Solomon Jones and Mario West. Ok, now my head hurts, I'm done.

[jade_hippo]

I wouldn't mind Miller/Collins for Wally. Wally brings pretty much everything to the table Miller can/does bring (9/6 in 30min for Miller, 7/3 in 20min Wally) they shoot a pretty similar clip from the field and from 3pt. The only problem is I don't see Cleavland doing this. About the only deals I see the other team doing are a couple of the Knicks trades, the Indiana trade and the Sacto trade, but we probably wouldn't be interested in those... so I guess it will be interesting how the next few weeks up to the deadline play out.

[WallyWorld]

I was thinking into the 09 situation, and how much money do we need to free up to really be a player? I am a big proponent of a Cardinal or Miller trade, but would a smaller deal involving Craig Smith or Mark Madsen be more sensible and realistic?

A Craig Smith and a first for an expiring trade seems pretty realistic, and that should give us just around 10 million in cap space with our picks signed. Plenty if you ask me. Plus this ensures we have a good chunk for 2010 as well.

I say this because I think the big $7 million + expiring contracts are going to be EXTREMELY hard to get from teams over the next month. Think about it. You essentially have to give a team like Cleveland enough value to justify their owner paying Mike Milers 10 million dollar salary for an additional year during a rough economy. Is a late first rounder enough to justify that much added to your payroll? An extra 10 MILLION when the league is suddenly all about our payroll? Is Mike's ability enough? I sure as heck dont think so.

A small Craig Smith deal leaves us with plenty of space for this summer.

[big3_8_19_21]

I wouldn't mind Miller/Collins for Wally. Wally brings pretty much everything to the table Miller can/does bring (9/6 in 30min for Miller, 7/3 in 20min Wally) they shoot a pretty similar clip from the field and from 3pt. The only problem is I don't see Cleavland doing this. About the only deals I see the other team doing are a couple of the Knicks trades, the Indiana trade and the Sacto trade, but we probably wouldn't be interested in those... so I guess it will be interesting how the next few weeks up to the deadline play out.

Miller and Wally have entirely different playing styles. The only similar skill they have is 3pt shooting. Miller is much more quick, agile and athletic and therefore is much better taking the ball to the basket and he is also a better passer than Wally. Wally is better with his back to the basket than Miller. Not very similar players at all, and I don't see why Cleveland doesn't do it. It definitely improves them.

[jade_hippo]

As far as I've heard Cleavland wanted to hang on to Wally/Snow/Pav and were just going to let them expire to save money now and maintain chemistry since they are rolling pretty well right now. I meant they both have fairly similar stats, Wally and Miller have remarkably similar career numbers.

[PeeDee]

Cleveland would be dumb to not do all they can to win a championship this year. They are in prime position to do so. Trading Wally won't wreck their chances, especially if you're getting a player like Miller. Miller is better than Wally in EVERY area.

To not use your chips in order to push you over the top is a move that could make LeBron leave. And with the way the Cavs season is going, I doubt they have to worry about finances.

[WallyWorld]

Cleveland would be dumb to not do all they can to win a championship this year. They are in prime position to do so. Trading Wally won't wreck their chances, especially if you're getting a player like Miller. Miller is better than Wally in EVERY area.

To not use your chips in order to push you over the top is a move that could make LeBron leave. And with the way the Cavs season is going, I doubt they have to worry about finances.

I agree here but do you think Miller's game is enough to justify the added salary next season? Think about these trades from a money perspective only, and the reason for Cleveland to do it. I think Wally's contract is going to be a hot commodity with only 4 teams (3 once you factor Boozer going to the Heat with little question) competing in '09 free agency. Cleveland could get a hell of a lot more than Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and a late first round pick. The value itself has to be enough to justify another year of big salary. So, people thinking the Wolves are going to be trading Mike for Wally and getting all these draft picks in addition can keep dreaming. We have to add SIGNIFICANT value to recieve an expiring contract of that caliber.

As I said, I think our best bet is to free up just a small amount of additional cap space, similar to what Philly did by trading Carney and Booth to us, and make a move that way. Craig Smith, Maddog and our first round picks are great places to start.

Lets also not forget Mike Miller and Cardinal could have ridiculously valuable contracts during the 2009-2010 season.

[jade_hippo]

To not use your chips in order to push you over the top is a move that could make LeBron leave. And with the way the Cavs season is going, I doubt they have to worry about finances.

I understand the logic, its just every rumor/print seems to suggest Cleavland is unwilling to do anything with their expirings for chemistry and financial reasons.

[shrink]

Nice post PeeDee! I'll comment on the individual deals when I have a little more time.

Its a good discussion about Wally's expiring too, but popular opinion is that its a deal both teams can say "no" to. Wally is not a guy that I think of for "team chemistry," and other players probably dictate that much more than Wally. And while I'm generally one of the biggest advocates for a team trying to get under the lux, by ignoring it the last couple years and trying to add talent next to LeBron, CLE is one of the most profitable teams in the NBA, and they are now the fifth most valuable franchise as well. Maintain those extra dollars for a year will keep the turnstyles swinging, and if they can win a championship, they get the bonus prize of perhaps keeping LeBron James in a Cavs jersey. And don't forget, the CLE 1st is in the 28-30 range, and also adds guaranteed money.

As for Craig Smith, he's worth his small contract, and it only runs two years ($2.5 mil, $2.3 mil). You'd have to find the right situation to compensate for smith's limitations, but even here he is worth that money. He would probably draw an expiring and a 2nd on its own, if he could be traded that way. He's a tiny BYC right now.

[PeeDee]

I agree here but do you think Miller's game is enough to justify the added salary next season? Think about these trades from a money perspective only, and the reason for Cleveland to do it. I think Wally's contract is going to be a hot commodity with only 4 teams (3 once you factor Boozer going to the Heat with little question) competing in '09 free agency. Cleveland could get a hell of a lot more than Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and a late first round pick. The value itself has to be enough to justify another year of big salary. So, people thinking the Wolves are going to be trading Mike for Wally and getting all these draft picks in addition can keep dreaming. We have to add SIGNIFICANT value to recieve an expiring contract of that caliber.

*Cleveland's chances to win a title with Miller are better than they are with Szerbiak.
*Cleveland winning a title increases their chances of resigning LeBron.
*Miller and Cardinal(or Collins) will all be expired by 2010, allowing them to still be able to attract top free agents that Summer.
*Their ability to sign top free agents is contingent on whether or not LeBron stays, which is contingent on whether Cleveland shows it's willing to put the pieces around LeBron to win a title.

There, I have scientifically proven that if Cleveland does not trade for Miller, LeBron will leave and Cavaliers will be relocated to Oklahoma City.

[jade_hippo]

*Cleveland's chances to win a title with Miller are better than they are with Szerbiak.
*Cleveland winning a title increases their chances of resigning LeBron.
*Miller and Cardinal(or Collins) will all be expired by 2010, allowing them to still be able to attract top free agents that Summer.
*Their ability to sign top free agents is contingent on whether or not LeBron stays, which is contingent on whether Cleveland shows it's willing to put the pieces around LeBron to win a title.

There, I have scientifically proven that if Cleveland does not trade for Miller, LeBron will leave and Cavaliers will be relocated to Oklahoma City.

I remember during debate team I used similar logic to prove unwed teenage mothers would never allow the Yankees win the world series... I like this post with a passion

[C.lupus]

I like:
Miller for Rasho and Josh McRoberts (whitest trade ever)

Miller and Cardinal for Wally Szerbiak

Miller and McCants for Eric Snow and Sasha Pavlovich(unguaranteed)

That whole Portland deal in the other thread...

Miller for Andre Miller

I do not want Marion, Marbury, or Artest infecting the young pups, even for half a season. Gooden and Stro Swift would just cause lineup issues while they were here. The Stackhouse deal is OK but I'd rather not have Green back.

I'd be willing to trade for Williams now, too. If he really is our guy, we'd have to beat/match any offer anyway.

[shrink]

The key to these expirings is that they expire. We are not playing for even a play-off spot this year, so in general, the worse the production from the expiring, the better the trade works for both teams. For them, the production increase is greater, and for us, that makes it easier for them to give us more future compensation.

For that reason, I've not been a fan of the Andre Miller trade. While he could be a good fit on a floor next to Foye, having him for this season only to leave is a waste of his near 16-4-6 production. Give me something awful, like Wally, LaFrentz, Snow, or Stackhouse, and give me something we can use. Even if we thought Andre was a perfect fit, I'd rather use Miller elsewhere, and take a look at him in free agency. Same goes for Rasho, but of course, his trade value would be less.

I would greatly try to move Cardinal, because this magnifies the bonus we get from moving Mike Miller. The farther we get under that salary cap, the more leverage we're going to have.