MIN-CHI (#16 and No Hinrich)

[shrink]

I flashed the Hinrich deal that most posters are happy with (at the bottom), and one CHI poster asked if it was possible to create the cap space to sign Ben Gordon and still keep Hinrich. Would you guys do this?

MIN GETS: Brad Miller + Tim Thomas + Jerome James + #16
CHI GETS: Mike Miller + Cardinal + Madsen + Bobby Brown + $5.11 mil TPE

Unlike Hinrich, Brad Miller is an expiring, so I like him more than Hinrich. Jerome James is 80% covered by insurance, so the $5 mil Taylor needs to kick in for the TPE is covered off the books. #16 pick in this draft isn't going to be spectacular, but Is Mike Miller worth more?

CHI GIVES: Kirk Hinrich (3 yr) + Tim Thomas + Jerome James + #16
CHI GETS: Stackhouse + Shawne Williams + Cardinal + Telfair + $3.65 mil TPE

MIN GIVES: Mike Miller + Cardinal + Telfair ($19,130,937)
MIN GETS: Kirk Hinrich + Tim Thomas + Jerome James + #16 ($22,566,600)

DAL GIVES: Stackhouse (ung) + Shawne Williams
DAL GETS: Mike Miller

[mandurugo]

Mike Miller is worth more in my opinion. But the last few times I saw Brad Miller play he looked bad, so he didn't add much value to the trade. The wolves aren't in a position to keep adding first round draft picks, so that is only of value if they can combine some to trade up or they are acquiring them to sell. The second option might be a legitimate plan for a business man, but it's not too interesting to think about from a fan perspective.

[cpfsf]

Could a third team be added that needs Brad Miller? I think Brad Miller will improve the team because we won't be so undersized, but I'm not sure if we need that if the plan is to compete in 2010.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I kind of like it, Brad Miller seems like he could show Love a couple things. The thing is the draft picks, I seem to like these guys more than the Wolves based on the feeling I'm getting from quotes. I'd be all too happy to grab 3 players in the top 20 and it'd ensure we'd get one of the better PG prospects between Jennings, Flynn, Lawson..... and Holiday I suppose.

[casey]

Don't we already have three 1st round picks? Why would we need another?

[mnWI]

Yeah, the team would try and get rid of a pick or two, not try to add more mid-round firsts in the weakest draft in recent memory.

[Devilzsidewalk]

weak for superstars at the top, but I don't think there's anything weak about getting a guy like Lawson, Flynn, or Teague in the teens, doesn't matter what year it is.

2003 had Wade Melo and LBJ, but I'll take Lawson Flynn or Teague over anybody in the 03 draft from picks 7 to 26 outside of David West

[shrink]

Don't we already have three 1st round picks? Why would we need another?

Playing for 2010, where the #16 pick would be the only thing on either team's books. There's also always the possibility of combining picks and moving up.

The more I look at this, the more I think that we could do better elsewhere. The prospect at #16 in this weak draft might not be much better than some of the prospects that get drafted in the late first round, that are bought for $3 mil in cash. Even if this is pick is worth more, is he worth $5 mil? And $5 mil in raw cap space is worth even more. And our players are certainly better than theirs.

Now if this was the only deal in town, would I do it? Maybe, because I'm probably more willing to accept losses in 2009 than they ticket-buying fan, and I'm firmly convinced that having the #16 is better than not having. But this is an expensive deal, and I think the Wolves could probably find something better.

[Devilzsidewalk]

how it boils down is that trading Mike Miller is one of the few ways to get an impact player in MN.

We know Mike Miller's impact, it's probably only going to lessen over time, or maybe be nothing at all if we go our separate ways after next season.
A chance to trade a guy on the way down for a guy on his way up is a no-brainer. It's a weak draft for a #1 pick and it's a weak draft for our 28th pick, but that 10-20 range is shaping up nicely. There's some nice PGs then you got Johnson from Wake, Gani Lawlz, Maynor, Daye, Mullens, Blair, then theres, um...ok it's kind of a weak draft, but there's definitely some talent and some intriguing prospects too.


It's a solid, average draft. Definitely not the weakest of all time or anything like that. I'm on record that it'll be better than '06.

[Winter Wonder]

It is an interesting idea. I don't mind B. Miller at all, though I don't think hhe plus the #16 are quite enough value. If we could reduce some of the deal, leave M. Miller with MN, trade Smith and drop T. Thomas or something from the Chi side, I would be more inclined. Not sure what works finacially since the trade checker won't let me figure out those contracts that have options that need to be exercised yet. Regardless, it isn't bad, it is kinda close, but not exactly what I would be leaping for.

[Tommy Udo 6]

some Chicago fans do not understand what the Bulls are planning.

They have 3 expiring contracts & 2 others that are technically expirings.
Miller is an expiring
Tim Thomas is an expiring
Jerome James (once he opts in) is an injured expiring & insurance will pay about 80% of his salary.
Salmons will almost certainly opt out of the last year of his contract, making him technically an expiring
Tyrus Thomas is in year 4 of his rookie contract & next year is subject to a Qualifying Offer; thus, he also is an expiring.

Between those 5 players is $38 million in expiring deals - more than enough to make the Bulls major players in 2010. Plus, there is enough expirings there to make a trade offer for any elite player that may become available during 2009-10

So the Bulls will not trade any of those players unless there is a player that they really want.
Bulls fans like to unload anyone on the roster who they dont like - but Bulls management thinks differently.

Most likely Bull to be traded is Hinrich.
Next most likely is Tyrus Thomas, but only in a PF trade.

I dont think others are going to be traded except as salary fillers.

[shrink]

Between those 5 players is $38 million in expiring deals - more than enough to make the Bulls major players in 2010. Plus, there is enough expirings there to make a trade offer for any elite player that may become available during 2009-10

So the Bulls will not trade any of those players unless there is a player that they really want.
Bulls fans like to unload anyone on the roster who they dont like - but Bulls management thinks differently.

Every player CHI gets back is also an expiring, so this trade would be irrelevant to your 2010 plans. It would just give you cap space in 2009 for Ben Gordon.

[MJ-23]

How about

Hinrich for Cardinal, Madsen, 18th and 47th pick.

[BrooklynBulls]

The talent swap is pretty fair, but...we don't want it. If the goal is to resign Gordon, we end up with:

Rose, Hinrich, Gordon, Miller, Salmons, Deng. At the 1,2,3 spots. And probably the 26th pick somewhere in there. It's disastrous for chemistry, and then our only Center is Noah, whose favorite pastime is getting into foul trouble. He's good at it, too.

I'd like to leave the Miller/Miller swap alone.

[shrink]

The talent swap is pretty fair, but...we don't want it. If the goal is to resign Gordon, we end up with:

Rose, Hinrich, Gordon, Miller, Salmons, Deng. At the 1,2,3 spots. And probably the 26th pick somewhere in there. It's disastrous for chemistry, and then our only Center is Noah, whose favorite pastime is getting into foul trouble. He's good at it, too.

I'd like to leave the Miller/Miller swap alone.

No problem. Like I said, it was a different Bulls poster that asked me if I could come up with a way to create the cap space to keep Gordon, but he didn't want to give up Hinrich. This spends Taylor's money to do it.

You ought to keep it in mind though in combination with your other trades if you find a sucker .. I mean "taker" for Luol Deng, that will give you a center instead. The deal solves the financial hurdle for keeping Ben Gordon, the bigger hurdle I think, and leaves you with the "problem" of moving a productive player for a better fitting big man. It might work well adding talent in a different way, combined with a Bosh deal.

Finally, I think the Bulls get off kind of lightly in this trade. Turning $5 mil of off-the-books insurance into a $5 mil TPE might be worth the #16 alone. Then I think Mike Miller is a lot more productive than anything on the Bulls side.

[skorff26]

I would rather go for Milwaukee or Washington's 1st then Chicago's but if we couldn't get those 2 then I'd be interested.

[BrooklynBulls]

You ought to keep it in mind though in combination with your other trades if you find a sucker .. I mean "taker" for Luol Deng, that will give you a center instead. The deal solves the financial hurdle for keeping Ben Gordon, the bigger hurdle I think, and leaves you with the "problem" of moving a productive player for a better fitting big man. It might work well adding talent in a different way, combined with a Bosh deal.

I'm having trouble believing the market for Luol Deng is "here, take a decent Center off our hands." If it is, it's probably not a bad move to make. Though, you never want to sell low, And Luol Deng's underground right now. I'm more interested in seeing what Salmons can get from Dallas. I happen to think its Stackhouse and #22, which frankly, is more advantageous than this deal, don't you think?

Finally, I think the Bulls get off kind of lightly in this trade. Turning $5 mil of off-the-books insurance into a $5 mil TPE might be worth the #16 alone. Then I think Mike Miller is a lot more productive than anything on the Bulls side.

I don't disagree that it's a good deal, valuewise. But there's a problem of roster construction, and it would be pretty damn awful.

[casey]

^ur avatar hurts my head

[Devilzsidewalk]

^ur avatar hurts my head

ur avatar hurts the hearts of Timberwolves fans everywhere