GAME THREAD!!!!!! MIN VS. MIL PRESEASON

[El_Lobo_3]

I was at the game and man...Al and Love are going to be something special down low this year and from here on out...Love looks even more polished than last year, the both of them seem quicker and more athletic...and love was knocking down almost every outside shot he lined up (not to mention rebounding every missed shot of the night it seemed like)...Flynn looked very solid, his shooting stats are a little deceptive, he didnt try to score much at all besides at the end of the shot clock under duress..he did a great job distributing and was much more under control than sessions was...Sasha and Hollins definitely surprised me, I like what both of those guys bring to the table..and they seem to have great chemistry rolling already which is huge for these young guys..It is going to be a great start towards the end goal this year with Al/Love/Flynn playing together. Go wolves!

[mg]

I think the Wolves can surprise a few people this year.

Love/Al/Flynn all have potential to be future all stars. Sessions will only get better as he gets used to playing with his new teammates. Gomes is solid. We just need one or two of the wings (Brewer/Pavlovic) to produce. I have a feeling Pavlovic will be one of the most improved players in the League in Rambis' system. All these players are still young it should be a fun season.

[Vega06]

I was at the game and man...Al and Love are going to be something special down low this year and from here on out...Love looks even more polished than last year, the both of them seem quicker and more athletic...and love was knocking down almost every outside shot he lined up (not to mention rebounding every missed shot of the night it seemed like)...Flynn looked very solid, his shooting stats are a little deceptive, he didnt try to score much at all besides at the end of the shot clock under duress..he did a great job distributing and was much more under control than sessions was...Sasha and Hollins definitely surprised me, I like what both of those guys bring to the table..and they seem to have great chemistry rolling already which is huge for these young guys..It is going to be a great start towards the end goal this year with Al/Love/Flynn playing together. Go wolves!

Sounds awesome, could you tell us what Rambis' system looks like so far?

[revprodeji]

I am hesitant on Pavolvic. But apparently Rambis really wanted him, and Kahn was excited to have him as well. Wolves2011 knows his stuff and is excited about him also.

[Vega06]

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/Wo ... 10_04.html

Post game audio

[ChazzleDazzle]

* Flynn scored 14 PTS .. 14-for-15 from the line. 0-for-5 from the field.

Starting backcourt was 0-fer for the game though, and Ellington's 1 bucket made doesn't help much. First preseason game, so I'm remembering to breathe (and yes, I'm only working off the Box, so I'll accept the reality from those that have it), but are we worried about the backcourt already?

Or should I just settle down. Prolly that, yeah?

[colincb]

Most would consider Pavlovic's a shooter who most would consider a SG. He's never been known as a great defensive player or a great shooter either for that matter. Gomes has a considerably higher career PER than Pavlovic (13.9 vs 9.0) and a better eFG%. Pavlovic will get some minutes, but I'd bet it's at the 2 where Brewer is.

[Basti]

meh nba.com doesn't even have any video recap. this sucks.

[Wolves2011]

Most would consider Pavlovic's a shooter who most would consider a SG. He's never been known as a great defensive player or a great shooter either for that matter. Gomes has a considerably higher career PER than Pavlovic (13.9 vs 9.0) and a better eFG%. Pavlovic will get some minutes, but I'd bet it's at the 2 where Brewer is.

I'm a big believer in stats like PER or wins produced, but you have to know what they mean.

PER is only an offensive stat. So defense isn't included as it is for wins produced [from wages of wins journal]

PER is heavily influenced by shots taken and made [offensive efficiency], it you take too few shots - it hurts your PER. In Cleveland Sasha was competing for shots with Lebron - never a good thing.

With the Wolves new running offense and triangle he should get more shot attempts, he shoots at a decent percentage, so his PER should be higher

If you compare "Wins Produced"... and assume they all played the same minutes 30 minutes per game for arguments sake...

Sasha is WP48 0.072 = 3.7 wins produced
Gomes is WP48 0.012 = 0.6 wins produced
Brewer is WP48 0.053 = 2.7 wins produced

Hoops hype on Sasha: Pretty good athlete, good shooting skills, one of the top Euros when it comes to defense.

Cleveland's half court offense wasn't a good one for Sasha and he played behind Lebron at SF, never good for anyone if you want to play.

He will look much better here than Cleveland. I'm saying we don't want to get a great Wing in the draft or free agency in 2010.

I am saying that Sasha might be the best out of Sasha, Brewer and Gomes.

Phil Jackson said, and I'm paraphrasing: Sasha is one of the best defenders on Kobe in the NBA. Thats probably one reason why Kurt asked Kahn to get him.

[dennis00]

Flynn currently has the worst FG% in the league!1

[Zeitgeister]

We are going off stats, which have never told the whole story about Brewer's game. The +15 means he is doing something right.

+/- stats are basically useless on a per game basis.

[colincb]

Most would consider Pavlovic's a shooter who most would consider a SG. He's never been known as a great defensive player or a great shooter either for that matter. Gomes has a considerably higher career PER than Pavlovic (13.9 vs 9.0) and a better eFG%. Pavlovic will get some minutes, but I'd bet it's at the 2 where Brewer is.

I'm a big believer in stats like PER or wins produced, but you have to know what they mean. PER is only an offensive stat. So defense isn't included as it is for wins produced [from wages of wins journal] .

John Hollinger: "To generate [PER], I created formulas -- which I outlined in tortuous detail in the book "Pro Basketball Forecast" -- that return a value for each of a player's accomplishments. That includes positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls.”

PER’s not just an offensive stat. It’s a variant of the efficiency stat that can be found on NBA.com that Hollinger developed. There are problems with the efficiency stat in that it undervalues defensive specialists, but Sasha is not a defensive specialist. There are other issues with PER, but I don't think they're relevant to this discussion.

PER is heavily influenced by shots taken and made [offensive efficiency], it you take too few shots - it hurts your PER. In Cleveland Sasha was competing for shots with Lebron - never a good thing. With the Wolves new running offense and triangle he should get more shot attempts, he shoots at a decent percentage, so his PER should be higher.

PER’s a lot broader stat than that. He’s a below average 2FG% shooter over his career at 43.6 % (vs Gomes at 47.6%). At the FT line he’s averaged a hair above 70% over his career which is poor for a SG. He may get some more FG attempts, but it won’t be enough to drive his PER up much because he doesn’t do anything else well that shows up statistically and he’s a historically below-average FT shooter and rebounder.

If you compare "Wins Produced"... and assume they all played the same minutes 30 minutes per game for arguments sake...

Sasha is WP48 0.072 = 3.7 wins produced
Gomes is WP48 0.012 = 0.6 wins produced
Brewer is WP48 0.053 = 2.7 wins produced

Gomes has an EWA of 2+. Pavlovic is -1 which is poor. Guess it depends on what W/L stat you pick. They all suck as far as I’m concerned.

Hoops hype on Sasha: Pretty good athlete, good shooting skills, one of the top Euros when it comes to defense.

Go look on the Cavs' forums for a less favorable opinions of him. He is a pretty good athlete, he should shoot better than he does and being one of the top Euro defenders is very faint praise. Pavlovic’s a borderline rotation player, Gomes is a borderline starter. Been that way all their careers so far.

Cleveland's half court offense wasn't a good one for Sasha and he played behind Lebron at SF, never good for anyone if you want to play. He will look much better here than Cleveland. I'm saying we don't want to get a great Wing in the draft or free agency in 2010. I am saying that Sasha might be the best out of Sasha, Brewer and Gomes.

Phil Jackson said, and I'm paraphrasing: Sasha is one of the best defenders on Kobe in the NBA. Thats probably one reason why Kurt asked Kahn to get him.

Pavlovic had trouble getting off the bench until 2007 because he didn’t play defense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/sport ... 8nets.html

Apparently he finally got the message in the 2007 season, but his offense suffered and his 2FG% dropped to 38.6% and his 3PG% dropped to 29.6% for the 2008 season when he earned a career-high 23.3 mpg. He got injured, lost PT and was never able to recover. I think it’s pretty telling that given the problems the Cavs had defensively against the Magic that Sasha basically saw so little time in the playoffs.

I’m saying Gomes is better than Pavlovic. A lot of better teams passed on Pavlovic for the same chump change you gave him. He’s 25, injury prone and on his 4th team. I actually think he's worth a flyer, at that number since you guys need some depth. Most people thought you got Gomes at a fair value as a RFA. IMO Brewer OTOH is a bust who can’t play because offensively he’s like Superman to whom the ball is kryptonite. It's tough to believe that he's as bad as he appears and hasn't really improved.

If you have a chance to get a player worth max money at any position other than Al’s next year you go get them. This year you’ll be better than people expect if the first unit is healthy (Flynn - Sessions-Gomes-Love-Al) which should give you a shot at a max player given your favorable cap situation.

[GopherIt!]

Aquintatas sayeth:

They should change the name of the Free Throw line to the Jonny Flynn line

How many Flynn Throw Attempts did Big Al and Love get anyway?


Big Al sayeth:

"Ever since I heard that triangle offense was coming, I've been working on that jumper," said Jefferson, who had three rebounds, an assist, a blocked shot, a turnover and three fouls before leaving the game at halftime. "If you watched the Bulls and the Lakers when they ran the triangle, they always had a big man who could hit that jumper, besides Shaq [O'Neal]. Those jumpers should be wide open for me."

man, if this new offense has a significant effect on Big Al's efficiency that will make a huge difference for this team.


Wolves looking promising. Vikings beat the Pack. Twins tomorrow. Good times.

[Wolves2011]

Most would consider Pavlovic's a shooter who most would consider a SG. He's never been known as a great defensive player or a great shooter either for that matter. Gomes has a considerably higher career PER than Pavlovic (13.9 vs 9.0) and a better eFG%. Pavlovic will get some minutes, but I'd bet it's at the 2 where Brewer is.

I'm a big believer in stats like PER or wins produced, but you have to know what they mean. PER is only an offensive stat. So defense isn't included as it is for wins produced [from wages of wins journal] .

John Hollinger: "To generate [PER], I created formulas -- which I outlined in tortuous detail in the book "Pro Basketball Forecast" -- that return a value for each of a player's accomplishments. That includes positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls.”

PER’s not just an offensive stat. It’s a variant of the efficiency stat that can be found on NBA.com that Hollinger developed. There are problems with the efficiency stat in that it undervalues defensive specialists, but Sasha is not a defensive specialist. There are other issues with PER, but I don't think they're relevant to this discussion.

PER is heavily influenced by shots taken and made [offensive efficiency], it you take too few shots - it hurts your PER. In Cleveland Sasha was competing for shots with Lebron - never a good thing. With the Wolves new running offense and triangle he should get more shot attempts, he shoots at a decent percentage, so his PER should be higher.

PER’s a lot broader stat than that. He’s a below average 2FG% shooter over his career at 43.6 % (vs Gomes at 47.6%). At the FT line he’s averaged a hair above 70% over his career which is poor for a SG. He may get some more FG attempts, but it won’t be enough to drive his PER up much because he doesn’t do anything else well that shows up statistically and he’s a historically below-average FT shooter and rebounder.

If you compare "Wins Produced"... and assume they all played the same minutes 30 minutes per game for arguments sake...

Sasha is WP48 0.072 = 3.7 wins produced
Gomes is WP48 0.012 = 0.6 wins produced
Brewer is WP48 0.053 = 2.7 wins produced

Gomes has an EWA of 2+. Pavlovic is -1 which is poor. Guess it depends on what W/L stat you pick. They all suck as far as I’m concerned.

Hoops hype on Sasha: Pretty good athlete, good shooting skills, one of the top Euros when it comes to defense.

Go look on the Cavs' forums for a less favorable opinions of him. He is a pretty good athlete, he should shoot better than he does and being one of the top Euro defenders is very faint praise. Pavlovic’s a borderline rotation player, Gomes is a borderline starter. Been that way all their careers so far.

Cleveland's half court offense wasn't a good one for Sasha and he played behind Lebron at SF, never good for anyone if you want to play. He will look much better here than Cleveland. I'm saying we don't want to get a great Wing in the draft or free agency in 2010. I am saying that Sasha might be the best out of Sasha, Brewer and Gomes.

Phil Jackson said, and I'm paraphrasing: Sasha is one of the best defenders on Kobe in the NBA. Thats probably one reason why Kurt asked Kahn to get him.

Pavlovic had trouble getting off the bench until 2007 because he didn’t play defense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/sport ... 8nets.html

Apparently he finally got the message in the 2007 season, but his offense suffered and his 2FG% dropped to 38.6% and his 3PG% dropped to 29.6% for the 2008 season when he earned a career-high 23.3 mpg. He got injured, lost PT and was never able to recover. I think it’s pretty telling that given the problems the Cavs had defensively against the Magic that Sasha basically saw so little time in the playoffs.

I’m saying Gomes is better than Pavlovic. A lot of better teams passed on Pavlovic for the same chump change you gave him. He’s 25, injury prone and on his 4th team. I actually think he's worth a flyer, at that number since you guys need some depth. Most people thought you got Gomes at a fair value as a RFA. IMO Brewer OTOH is a bust who can’t play because offensively he’s like Superman to whom the ball is kryptonite. It's tough to believe that he's as bad as he appears and hasn't really improved.

If you have a chance to get a player worth max money at any position other than Al’s next year you go get them. This year you’ll be better than people expect if the first unit is healthy (Flynn - Sessions-Gomes-Love-Al) which should give you a shot at a max player given your favorable cap situation.

lol....I know whats in the PER, and Win formulas. I've calculated them for "fun" just to see if I came with the same answers as the analysts posting them to make sure I understood what they said.

Sasha's bad season [2007-2008] was the year he "held out" for more money. No training camp and he missed a bunch of games early in the season for contract reasons.

Sasha is a very good defender now. Thats and important reason "RAMBO" wanted him.

As I've said on a number of occasions, Jackson called him one of the best defenders on Kobe. Someone not easy to guard.

Sometime between now and the trading deadline, we'll see how Sasha, Gomes and Brewer do. I think they are competing mostly with each other for minutes, though Sasha and Brewer can also play SG and Gomes is limited to also playing PF, where his minutes shouldn't be needed by the Wolves since we have both Love and Jefferson to play there.