Wiz Fan Here With A Foye & Miller Question?

[dlts20]

Im not a troller or anything and these are real questions. Not about bragging about who got the best of the trade or whatever. Just honest answers.

1- How come Miller didnt workout with you guys? I saw his stats last year and they didnt really seem bad for his minutes & his percentages but I saw that alot of you said that he looked very reluctant. Im asking because most of our fans and media who have seen him absolutely love him. Ive only seen clips until the last game where I finaly got to see him and he looks like he can do it all. He has great size, good handles, passes very well, can rebound, is a great shooter, has good playmaking skills, and just seems like a vetran who knows how to play. Was the problem more with him being on a young team and it never really fit but maybe he will do well with us?

2- What are your honest thoughts of Foye. So far in Washington the results have been about 50/50. Everyone who has seen the camp raves about him but the one criticism from alot of people is that he is clearly not a PG, yet he will be the backup PG for us. I think Ive heard alot of you say the same things about him. When he's at the point he seems to only be able to create for himself, doesnt do a great job of getting others involved, and is a hog on alot of occasions. So far its not really been any problems but with the scorers we have, Im sure there not going to like that. That makes alot of our fans worry but Im not. I tell them that Gil is going to play probably 36-38mpg which only leaves 10-12 for Foye at the point and the rest of the time he will be at the 2. It may hurt us if Gil gets hurt again but if he gets hurt then we cant go nowhere serious anyways. Trust me though, its not a negative deal about Foye. He's playing very well, its just that his PG skills are lacking alot and some of the fans dont like that.
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Overall I think this will be a great trade for both teams as long as Rubio is more like Pistol Pete then he is Jason Williams but I also know that you guys might trade him. Everyone including me felt that Miller would be our starting SG and he very well may be but now alot of people think that he will come off the bench. That way it gives us a vet on the bench and it gives us another good ball handler & playmaker to play beside Foye. Foye & Young together may not be the best thing since they seem to only be able to do for themselves. Thats why I think Young will start and Miller will come off the bench with Foye, Blatche, and Oberto if necessary. I also think its good to start Young right now for an extra scorer because you can tell that Arenas is a little rusty and still trying to find himself all the way even though he is healthy and putting up good numbers. Stevenson will also be in the mix though, alot with McGuire so it will be some hard pics but I think Young will end up starting with the Minny boys coming off the bench. That also means that there numbers probably wont be indicative of how well they play since there time will probably be limited but we really like Foye so far and love Miller

[Basti]

1. I'm pretty sure the only person who could tell you why Miller was so passive is Miller himself. it was so freaking awful to watch him pass up wide open shots in order to penetrate and dish out again. sure it helped his assist numbers but overall it was awful to watch.

maybe a reason was that he got injured twice in the middle of the season and he lost his confidence in the process.

2. you just hit the nail on the head. Foye is a good player off the bench because he can get hot quite quickly but also shoot you out of a game. well not really but he sometimes (or rather more often than not) takes way too many shots from the outside. but even when he penetrated last year his ability to make shots at the rim was nowhere. when he was a rookie he was a good/great finisher at the rim (from what I saw and remember) but after his sophomore season and his longterm injury he couldn't finish at the rim at all (seemingly).

and no he's not a real faciliator. yes he had some games when he had 10+ assists but they were rather rare.

[mandurugo]

1- How come Miller didnt workout with you guys? I saw his stats last year and they didnt really seem bad for his minutes & his percentages but I saw that alot of you said that he looked very reluctant. Im asking because most of our fans and media who have seen him absolutely love him. Ive only seen clips until the last game where I finaly got to see him and he looks like he can do it all. He has great size, good handles, passes very well, can rebound, is a great shooter, has good playmaking skills, and just seems like a vetran who knows how to play. Was the problem more with him being on a young team and it never really fit but maybe he will do well with us?

Miller was fine for the wolves, I don't think anyone would have objected to keeping him on the team. But he did have a tendency to be more of a playmaker than a scorer for the wolves. He was the best shooter on the team but frequently took fewer shoots than bench players. I think the most surprising thing is that he wasn't ever able to develop a two-man game with Jefferson. Miller is obviously an excellent outside shooter, but his drive is better than expected, and he was one of the best if not the best playmaker on the team - with all that the two never complemented each other. Part of that is due to Jefferson's passing ability and certainly some must be due to coaching, but it was weird. He has an injury history, but other than falling to the floor and then limping to his feet and grimacing for 3-5 minutes four or five times a game he was pretty healthy for the wolves. Hopefully he is as healthy in the future. His defense isn't good, but he's not horrible.

2- What are your honest thoughts of Foye. So far in Washington the results have been about 50/50. Everyone who has seen the camp raves about him but the one criticism from alot of people is that he is clearly not a PG, yet he will be the backup PG for us. I think Ive heard alot of you say the same things about him. When he's at the point he seems to only be able to create for himself, doesnt do a great job of getting others involved, and is a hog on alot of occasions. So far its not really been any problems but with the scorers we have, Im sure there not going to like that. That makes alot of our fans worry but Im not. I tell them that Gil is going to play probably 36-38mpg which only leaves 10-12 for Foye at the point and the rest of the time he will be at the 2. It may hurt us if Gil gets hurt again but if he gets hurt then we cant go nowhere serious anyways. Trust me though, its not a negative deal about Foye. He's playing very well, its just that his PG skills are lacking alot and some of the fans dont like that.

Foye is at best a combo player off the bench. If he was able to play point guard he might have been a starter in the league but he is too undersized to play many minutes at shooting guard and as you've already noted is not a playmaker at point guard. The wolves gambled on him and lost. With lower expectations he might be fine in a 7th or 8th man role. Don't expect much defense from him at either position however.

[Tekkenlaw]

Im not a troller or anything and these are real questions. Not about bragging about who got the best of the trade or whatever. Just honest answers.

1- How come Miller didnt workout with you guys? I saw his stats last year and they didnt really seem bad for his minutes & his percentages but I saw that alot of you said that he looked very reluctant. Im asking because most of our fans and media who have seen him absolutely love him. Ive only seen clips until the last game where I finaly got to see him and he looks like he can do it all. He has great size, good handles, passes very well, can rebound, is a great shooter, has good playmaking skills, and just seems like a vetran who knows how to play. Was the problem more with him being on a young team and it never really fit but maybe he will do well with us?

He's a good 6-8 years older than the rest of our core, and I don't think they were interested at keeping him around for 4-5 million or whatever he stands to make in free agency. He's a good player, you're love him as a Wizards fan, but the fit wasn't there for us. Also, he seemed to pass up plenty of open looks to try and be a distrubuter. A lot of this might have been due to the lack of a good PG on the roster.

2- What are your honest thoughts of Foye. So far in Washington the results have been about 50/50. Everyone who has seen the camp raves about him but the one criticism from alot of people is that he is clearly not a PG, yet he will be the backup PG for us. I think Ive heard alot of you say the same things about him. When he's at the point he seems to only be able to create for himself, doesnt do a great job of getting others involved, and is a hog on alot of occasions. So far its not really been any problems but with the scorers we have, Im sure there not going to like that. That makes alot of our fans worry but Im not. I tell them that Gil is going to play probably 36-38mpg which only leaves 10-12 for Foye at the point and the rest of the time he will be at the 2. It may hurt us if Gil gets hurt again but if he gets hurt then we cant go nowhere serious anyways. Trust me though, its not a negative deal about Foye. He's playing very well, its just that his PG skills are lacking alot and some of the fans dont like that.

Honestly, I used to be high on Foye, at one point he was my favorite player on the Wolves, but he wore out his welcome here, and he didn't even have attitude problems. He isn't a starter in this league, he is not a point guard, can't run basic plays like the pick n' roll, and he is too small to guard shooting guards consistently. He's a good 6th or 7th man and offense off the bench but that's it. Also with him you have the same problem as with Miller, you're going to need to spend the mid-level to extend him, and is he really worth that when you can easily find a player like him in the mid-first round of most drafts?

Overall I think this will be a great trade for both teams as long as Rubio is more like Pistol Pete then he is Jason Williams but I also know that you guys might trade him. Everyone including me felt that Miller would be our starting SG and he very well may be but now alot of people think that he will come off the bench. That way it gives us a vet on the bench and it gives us another good ball handler & playmaker to play beside Foye. Foye & Young together may not be the best thing since they seem to only be able to do for themselves. Thats why I think Young will start and Miller will come off the bench with Foye, Blatche, and Oberto if necessary. I also think its good to start Young right now for an extra scorer because you can tell that Arenas is a little rusty and still trying to find himself all the way even though he is healthy and putting up good numbers. Stevenson will also be in the mix though, alot with McGuire so it will be some hard pics but I think Young will end up starting with the Minny boys coming off the bench. That also means that there numbers probably wont be indicative of how well they play since there time will probably be limited but we really like Foye so far and love Miller

I don't want to offend you but I don't think it was a good trade for the Wizards, I don't think it Miller or Foye pushes you over the edge though it does make you a better team. I think in a few years when it's time to rebuild you will regret not keeping the pick, paying Miller and Foye around 10 million per total, as opposed to Flynn, Rubio, Curry, Derozan, or even Hill on a rookie deal.

[big3_8_19_21]

1. He did everything but shoot the ball. Nobody here knows why he wouldn't shoot, but we would have been much better off if he took him open shots. Hopefully he'll start shooting again for you.

2. I'm not a Foye fan. He's too short to be a SG, and does not have PG skills. I should clarify. I am not a fan of 2008-09 Randy Foye. If the Randy Foye that can penetrate easily and finish at the rim consistently returns, then he'll be fine, but he's still not a PG. I'd rather have Mike Miller bring the ball up and have Foye play off the ball...which may have been part of the problem with Miller's passiveness last year, but he's a much better facilitator than Foye.

[younggunsmn]

On offense, Foye's main problems are his terrible court vision and his inability to drive with his left hand. One defense, well he's a turnstile, and one that is easily posted up.

He could be good as a bench scorer, but like others have said he can just as easily shoot you completely out of the game if his shot is off. His strength is playing off the ball, and spotting up or running off of picks ala rip hamilton.

Overall I think 10-15 minutes at backup PG is the most he should play. I would run a 3 man rotation of miller/butler/young at sg/sf with mcGuire and stevenson getting spot minutes.

Miller I think got caught in being McHale's "veteran example" for the other young players, which caused him to be more unselfish than needed. His passing will fit well on the wizards and his facilitating would fit nicely on the 2nd unit.

Defensively he is bad, but he is much worse at sg.

Overall I am satisfied with the asset we got for foye and miller. I don't think we would have gotten anything near rubio's rights for foye+miller at the trade deadline.

[dlts20]

Well we just didnt have any need for anymore young guys and I cant see anyone in the draft that wouldve made us better. Everyone loves Griffin but Im the only one who didnt even want him if we had the chance because I think Blatche will be good with a healthy Arenas. Miller has talked alot about getting open shots with the weapons we have so Im guessing he will pull the trigger but even if he doesnt, I think its fine for our team because we have plenty of guys for him to pass it to. I guess we all just have to wait & see how it plays out for both sides

[skorff26]

1. We don't know why Miller didn't shoot more, we wish he would have. As for the rest of his play, we were extremely happy. He moved the ball around nicely (maybe a little bit too much), he played fairly good D, and he was near the top of the league in rebounding for a guard.

2. Foye doesn't run a team that well. He is a very good scorer but not much of a playmaker. He would be a good 6th man that can come in and provide some decent scoring. I bet he will have many nights where he will have a line like 24min 18 pts 1ast 1reb.

[shrink]

Miller I think got caught in being McHale's "veteran example" for the other young players, which caused him to be more unselfish than needed.

This is a really good insight. I think Mike Miller was playing the game right, and making the pass to the open man, but unfortunately, that man was often Telfair who couldn't make a shot. Miller was in the top 10 in the NBA in 2-point FG% (I find this amazing for a jumpshooter to be in with the dunkers), so you can see Miller's dilemna. Do you play selfishly and take the shots if it helps you win now? Or with a young team, do you play the game correctly, hoping they'll learn to do things right? I hadn't considered that McHale might have been behind Miller's decision to go with option #2, but it makes sense that he'd be stressing the fundamentals, and telling Miller to provide a veteran example.

[Biff Cooper]

younggunsmn wrote:
Miller I think got caught in being McHale's "veteran example" for the other young players, which caused him to be more unselfish than needed.

This is a really good insight. I think Mike Miller was playing the game right, and making the pass to the open man, but unfortunately, that man was often Telfair who couldn't make a shot. Miller was in the top 10 in the NBA in 2-point FG% (I find this amazing for a jumpshooter to be in with the dunkers), so you can see Miller's dilemna. Do you play selfishly and take the shots if it helps you win now? Or with a young team, do you play the game correctly, hoping they'll learn to do things right? I hadn't considered that McHale might have been behind Miller's decision to go with option #2, but it makes sense that he'd be stressing the fundamentals, and telling Miller to provide a veteran example.

Good points. McHale did always back Miller's reluctancy to shoot with the excuse of "playing the right way". He definitely deserves ~50% of the credit for Miller playing this way by enabling it.

[KG_Wolves]

1. Mike Miller sucked with us, it was basically brick city. And his reluctance to shoot was beyond me, what kinda shooter refuses to shoot???

2. Foye is not a PG, but he can be a valuable off the bench player. A sixth man Ben Gordon type.

[Narf]

When people say Foye is not a PG, what they usually mean is he's not the borderline all star starting PG we thought he would become when we drafted him. He's a damn good combo guard off the bench, and Flip Saunders will work very well with him. Flip's offense is perfect for a guy like Foye, and when you look at 90% of "backup" PGs in the league Foye is clearly better any way you cut it.

I guess my answer to both your questions is Wittman was our coach. That's pretty much why our players underperformed.

[john2jer]

Typically you hope the 6th pick in the draft turns into better than a back-up PG, though. Randy Foye is a great combo guard 6th man type, but the Wolves need MUCH more than that. He's a Jason Terry type as far as his role.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Jason Terry in his role, not so much his execution. More like Flip Murray in his execution.

[Narf]

Typically you hope the 6th pick in the draft turns into better than a back-up PG, though. Randy Foye is a great combo guard 6th man type, but the Wolves need MUCH more than that. He's a Jason Terry type as far as his role.

Right. In fact, exactly right. He's a great young 6th man he's just not the guy you want starting at PG. The Wolves problem is we were starting him at PG with a bad coach to boot. You'll love Foye, because you won't have the same expectations we had. It's not his fault we picked him over Roy, but that doesn't mean we have to like him .

[Narf]

err, double post. Feel free to delete

[Narf]

Aaaand, triple post

[john2jer]

Jason Terry in his role, not so much his execution. More like Flip Murray in his execution.

Hence why I added in "role".

And apparently I said it so nice, Narf agreed thrice.