NY/MN/HOU: TMAC/Curry/Gallo/Expirings

[shrink]

And it is not a crime to not call someone a superstar. I don't care which board I am on.. KG is a celtic now, again. time to move on.. Just because you are a wolves fans doesn't mean that you were more of a KG fan than Me or anyone else.... I stated why I think KG was not a superstar along with other players.. that is something you should be able to accept... You don't have to agree with it..... that is fine... And for the record two of my favorite players don't even play for the knicks...should I not feel free to talk about them on their boards?

I don't agree with that. There's some things you don't say on other teams boards, even if it's your opinion, even if it's a fair opinion.

so if it is a fair opinion, don't say it? not sure I agree with that as well... If it is fair, then I don't see the problem...

And you decide what's fair. Period.

Yesterday when a poster had an opinion you disagreed with "Wilson Chandler is Wack Azz" you threatened the guy that his post could be considered baiting. Regular posters with opinions don't carry your moderator club, and don't threaten to use it.

That's the difference. You behaved like a bully, with a different moderator set of rules for yourself and a knick poster than for others. I think when a moderator does that, he causes posters to lose respect for the position, and reduces other RealGM moderators ability to manage the forum.

[john2jer]

TKF - you threatened john2jer that saying that recent small-time Wilson Chandler was "Wack Azz" was baiting, then post on this board and say that Kevin Garnett, our most beloved franchise player of all time, wasn't a superstar, and say that's not baiting.

I struggle to think of a bigger baiting statement you could make on a Minnesota message board. Can you think of one?

You've lost your objectivity. I would enjoy discussing your opinions, but you shouldn't have the power to threaten (and eventually issue) punishments as a moderator for opinions you disagree with, when they involve the knicks.

come on man, move on, you have no clue what you are talking about.. . I could care less what he thinks about chandler. Heck there are knicks fans who dislike chandler and we have great conversations. so you have no point here.....John2jer was warned for something else, something I am not at liberty to discuss with you.. if you want to talk basketball, fine, but honestly, I talked with your mod about the situation, he understands why I warned the poster, so just move on..

And yet I still sit here wondering why I was "warned"? I got a blank PM with a subject saying I was "warned", then a promise on this forum that I would get further information later in the day. Further information that never came. Comes across as a mod with an agenda, who's a little hurt, at this point. But that's just my opinion until I get all the information.

So really that "warning" doesn't mean jack. Other than it made me laugh yesterday.

After all this non-sense of being repressed by the statistical minority(Knicks fan on a Wolves board), now I know how Nelson Mandela felt.

[TKF]

who really trades superstars? shaq to miami, but shaq was clearly on the decline.. KG to boston? KG some can say had already peaked, and really is KG a superstar, or more along the lines of pierce and ray allen, who are the tier below the superstars... I mean, no one really trades superstars...

I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a superstar. He got traded to LAL after averaging 30/14/4/3/.513%. Charles Barkely got traded. Clyde Drexler got traded. That's 3 top-50 players of all time that I can think of of the top of my head.

To answer your question, teams that have a superstar that requests a trade will trade him.

Drexler was traded arter 12 seasons at age 33.. no longer on a superstar level, Barkley after 8 years and 30 years old... kareem is about the only one.. but lets take a look, really can't count drexler he was past his prime pretty much... so if you take kareem and barkley to some extent, that is two players in the past 35 years...

As I said, teams rarely if ever trade superstars.....

[john2jer]

Isn't coming to the Wolves board and claiming that KG isn't a superstar like going to the Cavs board and claiming that LeBron's guaranteed to be a Knick in 2010? Pretty sure that wouldn't go over well and would be considered baiting.

And seriously, KG is constantly referred to as a top 4 player from this past decade. To say otherwise is crazy. (I await the butt-pirate response.) And that's not coming from fans, that's coming from "experts" and guys who make a living off NBA commentary and analysis. (The KG ranking, not the butt-pirate comment.)

[Worm Guts]

KG's career is pretty much on par with Barkley's. If Barkley's a superstar, so is KG.

[TKF]

And you decide what's fair. Period.

Yesterday when a poster had an opinion you disagreed with "Wilson Chandler is Wack Azz" you threatened the guy that his post could be considered baiting. Regular posters with opinions don't carry your moderator club, and don't threaten to use it.

That's the difference. You behaved like a bully, with a different moderator set of rules for yourself and a knick poster than for others. I think when a moderator does that, he causes posters to lose respect for the position, and reduces other RealGM moderators ability to manage the forum.

again, that is not what he was warned for.... why cant' you understand that?

[john2jer]

And you decide what's fair. Period.

Yesterday when a poster had an opinion you disagreed with "Wilson Chandler is Wack Azz" you threatened the guy that his post could be considered baiting. Regular posters with opinions don't carry your moderator club, and don't threaten to use it.

That's the difference. You behaved like a bully, with a different moderator set of rules for yourself and a knick poster than for others. I think when a moderator does that, he causes posters to lose respect for the position, and reduces other RealGM moderators ability to manage the forum.

again, that is not what he was warned for.... why cant' you understand that?

So what was he warned for? Enquiring minds want to know.

[jballer_13]

Yeah KG was only third in league MVP voting the year he was traded to Boston, which would be higher than Lebron/Howard/Duncan/etc. but he was not a superstar.

But even if you don't consider him to be top-tier, the whole argument over "trading a superstar" was started with the mention of Chris Paul being traded.... I would like to hear some arguments explaining how CP3 is a superstar and KG is not.

that is not an argument I made.. when I made the comment about superstars not being traded, I really paid no attention to CP3 at all.... But if you want to be honest.. guys like CP3 are rarely if ever traded at this point in their careers, same goes with deron williams, brandon roy and wade..... Not saying they are superstars, but if these kind of great players are not moved, how much more as superstars never traded...

Oh I see what you did then... you picked apart Narf's argument by taking his "superstar" statement out of context.

I agree that the likelihood of those type of players being traded is very low. I would respond more to that post but the last sentence is not making any sense. Could you clarify?

[shrink]

And you decide what's fair. Period.

Yesterday when a poster had an opinion you disagreed with "Wilson Chandler is Wack Azz" you threatened the guy that his post could be considered baiting. Regular posters with opinions don't carry your moderator club, and don't threaten to use it.

That's the difference. You behaved like a bully, with a different moderator set of rules for yourself and a knick poster than for others. I think when a moderator does that, he causes posters to lose respect for the position, and reduces other RealGM moderators ability to manage the forum.

again, that is not what he was warned for.... why cant' you understand that?

and again, warned isn't threatened .. why can't you understand that?

[TKF]

Kobe had a losing season, in which I think he was injured for the most part I think.. but can't discount 4 rings.... just can't...

He played 66 games in his losing season, but his only won 34. KG would have 4 rings if he played Shaq, I have no doubt in my mind.

don't like the per stat.. doesn't take into account a lot of things, while adding in defensive stats which tends to overblow the number... KG is going to get more boards and blocks than pierce and allen.. It distorts the value a bit..

KG and dirk are both great players, but I can't say they were significantly above, kidd, iverson, pierce or even T-mac in his prime and healthy....

I might be able to give you other guys to some extent, but not Pierce. Pierce has never had an MVP caliber season.

well we may just dissagree on that.. But do you think that KG on the current lakers team wins a ring? I don't think so... I think kobe was more of the driving force behind the lakers success than shaq....

[TKF]

And you decide what's fair. Period.

Yesterday when a poster had an opinion you disagreed with "Wilson Chandler is Wack Azz" you threatened the guy that his post could be considered baiting. Regular posters with opinions don't carry your moderator club, and don't threaten to use it.

That's the difference. You behaved like a bully, with a different moderator set of rules for yourself and a knick poster than for others. I think when a moderator does that, he causes posters to lose respect for the position, and reduces other RealGM moderators ability to manage the forum.

again, that is not what he was warned for.... why cant' you understand that?

and again, warned isn't threatened .. why can't you understand that?

ok, man.. so I will play along with your game.. Calling a player "whack Azz" and saying that a player is Great, just not on the level of duncan or kobe is the same thing? if you think they are the same, then really, there is no reason to continue.... I didn't threaten the poster.. I called his actions baiting for a completely different post... I refrenced the chandler comment when I was explaining why the knick poster might have responded in the way he did, which I said, he was wrong for responding in such a manner... again, what point do you have here?

[john2jer]

I'm assuming TKF has me on ignore since he refuses to answer my question.

But for the record, although it IS hilarious, I never said that Wilson Chandler was "Whack Azz". I feel I'm being misquoted. I said, "Wilson Chandler DOES suck ass."

Which I have to apologize for, I've been trying to strike the word "ass" from my vocabulary and instead use the word arse. Mostly because of a tragic mounting climbing incident with a donkey when I was in college.

[jballer_13]

ok, man.. so I will play along with your game.. Calling a player "whack Azz" and saying that a player is Great, just not on the level of duncan or kobe is the same thing? if you think they are the same, then really, there is no reason to continue.... I didn't threaten the poster.. I called his actions baiting for a completely different post... I refrenced the chandler comment when I was explaining why the knick poster might have responded in the way he did, which I said, he was wrong for responding in such a manner... again, what point do you have here?

Wow way to ignore the situation.

Scenario #1: Calling a player "whack Azz" on your own board when another poster joins your conversation and calls someone else a "butt-pirate".

Scenario #2: Questioning the credentials of the most beloved player of a franchise on that team's board.

They seem awfully similar when taking everything into context.

[shrink]

.. again, what point do you have here?

OK, let me sum up. I'll say one last thing, and be done with this.

I used to run a forum a while ago, with about 40 moderators. If I witnessed one of my mods behave like you have done, they'd be gone, right after a formal apology. There are four main reasons:

1. You have to enforce the same rules for everyone. If a knicks poster calls a person a "butt-pirate," you can't look the other way, then warn someone over the word "blowhard." When a moderator shows bias, it reduces their effectiveness. Moreover, that's just an obvious dereliction of duty in the face of a blatant TOS violation.

2. You waded in, without knowing the social structure of this forum, and proceeded to make the situation worse. What do you think was going to happen when you say, "don't stoop to their level?" There were several incidents like this, and detracted from a decent conversation.

3. Bullying people with threats of warnings for "baiting" for opinions you disagree with is an abuse of power.

4. A moderator needs wisdom. A good moderator would never threaten a poster with baiting for his opinion on Chandler, then show up the very next day telling everyone that the beloved Kevin Garnett is not a superstar. Even if your opinion is 100% legitimate, there's a time and place to say it, and a time to talk about it later. Posting your opinions today demonstrates not just hypocrisy, but some idea that your opinion is more valuable than the flow of the forum.


I reported the thread the moment I saw you had escalated to using your power to issue warnings. If I was responsible for RealGM moderators, I'd want to know. I have been interested to hear your opinions as a fan, which I find very intelligent. However, as a moderator, I think you have demonstrated a lack of fairness and wisdom, which is vital because it earns moderators the respect of posters, that all moderators need to do their important job. RealGM doesn't need days like yesterday, with cowboy roving moderators who don't have the wisdom to use their powers fairly.

OK - I've said my piece. I guess we'll see if RealGM takes these things seriously or not.

[Klomp]

Another one bites the dust.

-Klomp