offseason moves

[sillirichi]

couple of scenarios for you all to consider!

Trade Al Jefferson to Philly for Iguodala, draft Cousins at #4, and hope Ed Davis or Paul George falls to #16, and Gordon Hayward at #23

Trade Al Jefferson and #23 to Golden State for A. Randolph and A. Biedrins. Draft Wesley Johnson #4, and James Anderson #16

Starting lineup in scenario #1

PG - Flynn, Sessions, Rubio? maybe next year
SG - Brewer, Ellington
SF - Iguodala, Gomes, Hayward
PF - Love, Davis, Pekovic
C - Cousins, Milicic, Pekovic

Starting lineup in scenario #2

PG- Flynn, Sessions, Rubio
SG- Brewer, Ellington, Anderson
SF- Johnson, Gomes, Randolph
PF- Love, Randolph, Pekovic
C- Biedrins, Milicic, Pekovic

[Foye]

Cousins/Favors should be a lock to be drafted at #4. It doesn't matter which trades we make we should draft BPA.

[slinky]

I double dare you to go post trade 2 on the GSW board...I think 'Old Rem' will LOVE this TRADE...

[shrink]

I double dare you to go post trade 2 on the GSW board...I think 'Old Rem' will LOVE this TRADE...:-)

LOL! You're right, and I laugh because I wouldn't do that deal. As much as the GSW posters attack Al as a one-way player, if you look at the defensive metrics, I think Biedrins is a zero-way player.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I like deal 1 okay, but I still feel like Big Al can be a top 15-20 player in the NBA and I'd rather hold out for a really good deal rather than rush him out of the door for the best deal available

[Dewey]

I like deal 1 okay, but I still feel like Big Al can be a top 15-20 player in the NBA and I'd rather hold out for a really good deal rather than rush him out of the door for the best deal available

For Al to be a top 15-20 player he'd have to be considered the best player on half the teams ... He's probably a #2 or #3 player on most teams and that would put roughly in the top 50-100 players in the league. Now, I may not be interpreting this right, but value-wise, we have to understand that we''d be exptecting maybe a starting caliber wing coming back who could potentially be our #2 man ... since Al is a big man, we could possibly get a mid-round pick tossed in as well.

I'd prefer to do an Al Jefferson for Rudy Gay deal. First, I think Gay is improving his all-around game year by year and his stats support this. His defense is improving and he's getting to the charity stripe more and more each year. Second, the Triangle does not favor Als half-court offensive game and I don't believe he can become an effective passer or defender. Yes, this would force us to rely on Love (who I think will develop, offensively), Milicic, Pekovic, Hollins, maybe Cousins?, etc., but we do need to round out our roster some and this trade would allow us to sustain cap space while filling a void.

[shrink]

I like deal 1 okay, but I still feel like Big Al can be a top 15-20 player in the NBA and I'd rather hold out for a really good deal rather than rush him out of the door for the best deal available

I've come to this conclusion as well. The kid's baseline is already extremely high, and I think he can get better. His trade value was often considered in the Top 20 before his injury.

I am growing colder and colder on deals trading Jefferson.

[moss_is_1]

Well when Al was healthy, and at 23 and 11, most of us had him as better then Amare which is certainly debatable, and Amare is in the top 15 players for some reason. If Al was a super athlete he'd be higher but since he's an "under the rim" player he isn't overrated like Amare.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I like deal 1 okay, but I still feel like Big Al can be a top 15-20 player in the NBA and I'd rather hold out for a really good deal rather than rush him out of the door for the best deal available

For Al to be a top 15-20 player he'd have to be considered the best player on half the teams ... He's probably a #2 or #3 player on most teams and that would put roughly in the top 50-100 players in the league. Now, I may not be interpreting this right, but value-wise, we have to understand that we''d be exptecting maybe a starting caliber wing coming back who could potentially be our #2 man ... since Al is a big man, we could possibly get a mid-round pick tossed in as well.

But if you were ranking players the 1st half of pre injury season, he'd get 15-20 placement easy - I think he can get back there w/ a good off-season and either a lot more or a lot less 5 Hour Energy.

[Calinks]

After all kinds of consideration and watching the playoffs. I am now on the keep Al Jefferson bandwagon. There just aren't enough reliable bigs who can consistently create their own offense. I think that's in invaluable tool and unless we get Cousins and he proves that he can do that, I don't want to trade that player away. I know most would disagree but that's where I stand on the issue. There are good wings all over the place, there are fewer bigs that can consistently get their offense going like Al can. Yao, Amare, Gasol, Z-Bo, Lopez, Bosh, KG, and some more who I can't think of right now. Probably less than 12 though.

[Dewey]

After all kinds of consideration and watching the playoffs. I am now on the keep Al Jefferson bandwagon. There just aren't enough reliable bigs who can consistently create their own offense. I think that's in invaluable tool and unless we get Cousins and he proves that he can do that, I don't want to trade that player away. I know most would disagree but that's where I stand on the issue. There are good wings all over the place, there are fewer bigs that can consistently get their offense going like Al can. Yao, Amare, Gasol, Z-Bo, Lopez, Bosh, KG, and some more who I can't think of right now. Probably less than 12 though.

But you're leaving out the defensive side as well as passing/ball movement ... Scoring-wise, yes, but Al's missing lots some skills that would otherwise make him a complete player.

True, there are lots of wings out there ... but few that can raise the bar. If we can keep Al while adding an all-star go to guy on the wing, then yes, keep him. I imagine that is what Kahn's first goal is and we'd all be pleased as punch if he can pull it off.

Rubio also adds to the equation ... is he coming for sure? ... Is he a PG that will thrive in a half-court game with Al? Will we use the Rube (4 + 3 = #2 from Philly) to move up?

[slinky]

LOL! You're right, and I laugh because I wouldn't do that deal. As much as the GSW posters attack Al as a one-way player, if you look at the defensive metrics, I think Biedrins is a zero-way player.

Meh, I dont mind Biedrins as a player. He rebounds at a good rate, he seems pretty active(negative is that includes about 5 fouls a game per 36). He by no means is the defensive stalwart they make him out to be, but the catch for me is that they are paying him 36mil over the next 4 years, and they still consider him close to untradeable. In 25 minutes a game, I think Greg Stiesma could grab 7 rebounds a game, run around actively challenging each shot, and pick up 5 fouls a game, but we only have to pay him about 1million for one year.

Well when Al was healthy, and at 23 and 11, most of us had him as better then Amare which is certainly debatable, and Amare is in the top 15 players for some reason. If Al was a super athlete he'd be higher but since he's an "under the rim" player he isn't overrated like Amare.

If Al was a super-athlete, we wouldnt be having this conversation. He would get 28/14/4blks. And also he would have tremendous weakside defensive ability Now we still would suck right now, but we would be building around him not trying to trade him for Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala I just don't think he is athletic enough to be a force both offensively and defensively. And who knows maybe his lack of passing out of double teams and ball movement has more to do with a lack of basketball IQ than it does a poor passing ability. So maybe we have an unathletic, dumb, low post wizard...

Personally, I would rather shore up the perimeter defense first, and hide the fact that Al Jefferson can't move or get off his feet. And with that you put a defensive center who can stand at the rim ala Eddie Griffin(or Darko) and Jefferson can just stay within an arms length of his player at all times, and then just score baskets at will on the other end. Of course in my fantasy, my wings are 1st team all-world defenders who also can score 20ppg, but thats beside the point...

[Calinks]

After all kinds of consideration and watching the playoffs. I am now on the keep Al Jefferson bandwagon. There just aren't enough reliable bigs who can consistently create their own offense. I think that's in invaluable tool and unless we get Cousins and he proves that he can do that, I don't want to trade that player away. I know most would disagree but that's where I stand on the issue. There are good wings all over the place, there are fewer bigs that can consistently get their offense going like Al can. Yao, Amare, Gasol, Z-Bo, Lopez, Bosh, KG, and some more who I can't think of right now. Probably less than 12 though.

But you're leaving out the defensive side as well as passing/ball movement ... Scoring-wise, yes, but Al's missing lots some skills that would otherwise make him a complete player.

True, there are lots of wings out there ... but few that can raise the bar. If we can keep Al while adding an all-star go to guy on the wing, then yes, keep him. I imagine that is what Kahn's first goal is and we'd all be pleased as punch if he can pull it off.

Rubio also adds to the equation ... is he coming for sure? ... Is he a PG that will thrive in a half-court game with Al? Will we use the Rube (4 + 3 = #2 from Philly) to move up?

I'm not dismissing those things but almost every NBA players has weaknesses. Yea Al isn't a great defender but I don't think he's horrendous either. He hovers around 2 BPG and on rare occasion he can get a stop. You pair him with a capable defensive team and it will be a mute issue. Passing the ball is a big issue but I think it can be worked on. This season he has had pockets where he was passing much better.

Basically I don't think his weaknesses are bad enough to detract from his overall game. If worked with he can be successful on your team. Amare has major liabilities but he's still heavily valued. Zach Randolph has had success in Memphis. I know Al isn't a flawless player and I don't even see him has a number one franchise player but I do think he is a fantastic piece to a contending team, one of the better 2nd fiddle type players the NBA has to offer.

[Devilzsidewalk]

If Al was a super-athlete, we wouldnt be having this conversation. He would get 28/14/4blks. And also he would have tremendous weakside defensive ability Now we still would suck right now, but we would be building around him not trying to trade him for Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala I just don't think he is athletic enough to be a force both offensively and defensively. And who knows maybe his lack of passing out of double teams and ball movement has more to do with a lack of basketball IQ than it does a poor passing ability. So maybe we have an unathletic, dumb, low post wizard...

thats too harsh, heres the thing, the best 5 PFs in the game are Gasol, Bosh, Dirk, Boozer, and Amar'e. Tons of offense, not much defense, and when Big Al is healthy, what makes those guys so much better?. I can handle the idea of trading Jefferson, but its a delicate process that we shouldn't rush. Same goes for K Love, some people have ideas we can trade away Jefferson and Love and get Favors and Monroe or something and end up w/ a great 2 way frontcourt...look at the above list again, they don't exist unless Favors is a once in every 20 years type player.

[Calinks]

If Al was a super-athlete, we wouldnt be having this conversation. He would get 28/14/4blks. And also he would have tremendous weakside defensive ability Now we still would suck right now, but we would be building around him not trying to trade him for Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala I just don't think he is athletic enough to be a force both offensively and defensively. And who knows maybe his lack of passing out of double teams and ball movement has more to do with a lack of basketball IQ than it does a poor passing ability. So maybe we have an unathletic, dumb, low post wizard...

thats too harsh, heres the thing, the best 5 PFs in the game are Gasol, Bosh, Dirk, Boozer, and Amar'e. Tons of offense, not much defense, and when Big Al is healthy, what makes those guys so much better?. I can handle the idea of trading Jefferson, but its a delicate process that we shouldn't rush. Same goes for K Love, some people have ideas we can trade away Jefferson and Love and get Favors and Monroe or something and end up w/ a great 2 way frontcourt...look at the above list again, they don't exist unless Favors is a once in every 20 years type player.

We are in agreement.