The Hopelessly Optimistic Offseason Thread

[revprodeji]

Yea, the scenarios where we get 7 rookies always bug me. Those teams never work. 3 rookies is too many as it is.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I think we need to go after CP3. Right now, he's not even look at as the top PG anymore, he's been injured, they have Collison, they had a weak season, we can take on salaries, and we have a draft pick that we can afford to trade.

[revprodeji]

Interesting thought Devils.

I would like to make a bold move for a wing player, but Chris paul has crazy value. I wonder how he would work in this system.

[Klomp]

I think we need to go after CP3. Right now, he's not even look at as the top PG anymore, he's been injured, they have Collison, they had a weak season, we can take on salaries, and we have a draft pick that we can afford to trade.

We have Rubio.

[Steve_Holiday]

Devilzsidewalk wrote:I think we need to go after CP3. Right now, he's not even look at as the top PG anymore, he's been injured, they have Collison, they had a weak season, we can take on salaries, and we have a draft pick that we can afford to trade.



We have Rubio.

we have an asset in Spain.

[Devilzsidewalk]

is Dwight Howard too ambitious? Jefferson/#4 pick/Brewer/Gomes for D12 and Rashard Lewis' contract? don't know if that works financially, but the Magic owner would have to be intrigued to some extent to get out from Lewis' contract and get some legit talent in return. Not sure if it works, but maybe even add rights to Pekovic for Gortat if it'd grease the wheels

Howard/Love/Lewis/George?/Flynn/Rubio...yea

[skorff26]

Would they really need that many rookies? I like the idea of trading 16 and 7 for Johnson and letting Prince mentor the young pups for a season, then getting BPA at 23 whether that's a Euro like Seraphin or an American like Crawford or Ebanks or whoever...hmm, I'm starting to like this idea. So it'd be trade Jefferson for Prince and the 7, 7+16 for the 5, draft Cousins, Johnson and Seraphin. The team would look like:

PG - Flynn, Sessions
SG - Brewer, Ellington
SF - Johnson or Prince, probably Prince starting the first few months then Johnson
PF - Love
C - Cousins, Hollins

Going into the offseason, with decisions on Darko and Pekovic a long with enough money to maybe go after some more veterans. The team wouldn't win a championship or anything, but it should be better then last year.

The thing is in your suggestions we'd have 4 rookies as well (Johnson and Cousins) who we both have and (#23 and Pekovic). In my scenario, I used cap space to trade up and get 2 rookies who I think would fit in very well here and who would go higher up in the draft in Henry and Monroe.
There's only 2 differences in our offseasons 1) you keep Prince while I trade him for AK and the ability to move up 14 spots in the draft 2) your suggestion would have more available cap space for this year but if Darko and Pekovic get signed, where would a vet fit in on our team? We'd be 2 deep at every position (Flynn/Sessions, Brewer/Ellington, Prince/Johnson, Love/Pekovic, Cousins/Darko).

[skorff26]

I think we need to go after CP3. Right now, he's not even look at as the top PG anymore, he's been injured, they have Collison, they had a weak season, we can take on salaries, and we have a draft pick that we can afford to trade.

It'd have to occur when we have cap space and I'm too lazy to check and see if the financials work but I'm pretty sure they are close

NOH Out: Paul, Posey, Okafor, MoPete
In: Rubio, #4 Johnson, Jefferson, Foster, Minnesota cap space

Indiana Out: #10, Foster
In: Flynn

Minnesota Out: Rubio, #4, Jefferson, cap space, Flynn
In: Paul, Posey, Okafor, MoPete, #10

NOH afterward and they're out of the luxury tax
Collision/(Rubio)
Thorton
Johnson/Wright/Peja
West/Songalia
Jefferson/Foster

Minnesota afterward
Paul/Sessions
Brewer/#10 Henry/Ellington
Posey/#16 George/MoPete
Love/#23 Sanders
Okafor/Darko/Hollins

-I think that's what it'd take, and we would be better off then NOH is right now, but not that much better off so we'd likely be a border line playoff team.

[shangrila]

The thing is in your suggestions we'd have 4 rookies as well (Johnson and Cousins) who we both have and (#23 and Pekovic). In my scenario, I used cap space to trade up and get 2 rookies who I think would fit in very well here and who would go higher up in the draft in Henry and Monroe.

I'll split this up to make it easier. Here, 23 is used on Seraphin who would stay in France or wherever for another season, so that's that. And while Pekovic would technically be a rookie with his experience in europe it wouldn't be nearly as big of an adjustment as it would be for someone like Monroe. Besides, I didn't even sign him in my half-offseason plan so I don't know why you're bringing him into it.

There's only 2 differences in our offseasons 1) you keep Prince while I trade him for AK and the ability to move up 14 spots in the draft 2) your suggestion would have more available cap space for this year but if Darko and Pekovic get signed, where would a vet fit in on our team? We'd be 2 deep at every position (Flynn/Sessions, Brewer/Ellington, Prince/Johnson, Love/Pekovic, Cousins/Darko).

I know there's not many differences but I think they're important. We don't have as many rookies in my scenario, no matter what you seem to think, and I like Prince as a veteran more then Kirilenko as Prince at least has championship experience and is cheaper anyway. Besides that, the type of veteran I'm talking about in this scenario would be someone like Cardinal or, even better, resigning Wilkins. Someone to be another veteran on the team to keep the young guys spirits up when the losses eventually start to pile up.

So if I continued my offseason past the draft it'd look roughly like this:

PG - Flynn, Sessions
SG - Brewer, Ellington
SF - Prince, Johnson, Wilkens
PF - Darko, Love
C - Cousins, Pekovic

Which has a nice blend of veterans and young talent to do at least something next season, while still having the potential to improve for when Rubio gets here.

And I'd like to note some things you might not know. Firstly, Darko won't be coming back to be a back up. He's made that perfectly clear. If you're going to factor in resigning him you need to take that into account. Secondly, Pekovic is a centre and NOT a power forward. I've seen that popping up a little lately and it's just not true. The guy is a tank. While on the other hand Darko has shown some success playing that power forward spot when he was in Orlando and Memphis. And the length of that front court would be down right terrifying.

Also, if Love didn't like being the 6th man even if he were getting decent minutes, I wouldn't hesitate to trade him. He might be talented in some areas but he's lacking quite a bit in others and hasn't quite earnt the right to complain like he did this season. If he keeps it up, especially if the team is winning with him in that role, I'd look to trade him for a James Harden or someone like that.

[skorff26]

The thing is in your suggestions we'd have 4 rookies as well (Johnson and Cousins) who we both have and (#23 and Pekovic). In my scenario, I used cap space to trade up and get 2 rookies who I think would fit in very well here and who would go higher up in the draft in Henry and Monroe.

I'll split this up to make it easier. Here, 23 is used on Seraphin who would stay in France or wherever for another season, so that's that. And while Pekovic would technically be a rookie with his experience in europe it wouldn't be nearly as big of an adjustment as it would be for someone like Monroe. Besides, I didn't even sign him in my half-offseason plan so I don't know why you're bringing him into it.

There's only 2 differences in our offseasons 1) you keep Prince while I trade him for AK and the ability to move up 14 spots in the draft 2) your suggestion would have more available cap space for this year but if Darko and Pekovic get signed, where would a vet fit in on our team? We'd be 2 deep at every position (Flynn/Sessions, Brewer/Ellington, Prince/Johnson, Love/Pekovic, Cousins/Darko).

I know there's not many differences but I think they're important. We don't have as many rookies in my scenario, no matter what you seem to think, and I like Prince as a veteran more then Kirilenko as Prince at least has championship experience and is cheaper anyway. Besides that, the type of veteran I'm talking about in this scenario would be someone like Cardinal or, even better, resigning Wilkins. Someone to be another veteran on the team to keep the young guys spirits up when the losses eventually start to pile up.

So if I continued my offseason past the draft it'd look roughly like this:

PG - Flynn, Sessions
SG - Brewer, Ellington
SF - Prince, Johnson, Wilkens
PF - Darko, Love
C - Cousins, Pekovic

Which has a nice blend of veterans and young talent to do at least something next season, while still having the potential to improve for when Rubio gets here.

And I'd like to note some things you might not know. Firstly, Darko won't be coming back to be a back up. He's made that perfectly clear. If you're going to factor in resigning him you need to take that into account. Secondly, Pekovic is a centre and NOT a power forward. I've seen that popping up a little lately and it's just not true. The guy is a tank. While on the other hand Darko has shown some success playing that power forward spot when he was in Orlando and Memphis. And the length of that front court would be down right terrifying.
Also, if Love didn't like being the 6th man even if he were getting decent minutes, I wouldn't hesitate to trade him. He might be talented in some areas but he's lacking quite a bit in others and hasn't quite earnt the right to complain like he did this season. If he keeps it up, especially if the team is winning with him in that role, I'd look to trade him for a James Harden or someone like that.

Pekovic jumping to the NBA from Europe would be just as big if not bigger then a college player jumping to the NBA. I don't watch much European basketball but if it's anything like international basketball then it's an entirely different game and it will take time for Pekovic to adjust. European bigs making an immediate impact in the NBA is rare, other then Gasol I can't really think of anybody else who had an immediate impact so saying Pekovic won't have as much adjusting time is being hopelessly optimistic.

As for Pekovic not being on your roster, you did mention that we'd have a decision to make in regards to him so granted, maybe you'd think it'd be best to leave him in Europe (plus you included him on your latest roster so sounds like you think he should be here anyway).

As for guys like Wilkins and Cardinal; my roster had Price, Green, MoPete, and Songalia which would all be veteran presences (if any of them don't want to be veteran leaders, they can stay home). As for Prince being a better vet then AK, I for sure won't argue that; though I think AK in a contract year will put up some pretty good numbers.

and in regards to Darko being a PF and wanting to start; make the big man depth Darko/Love and Cousins/Monroe

Also if 4 rookies (Cousins, Johnson, Henry, Monroe) is too much but in your opinion but 3 (Cousins, Johnson, Pekovic) is fine, draft Motiejunas instead of Monroe and keep him in Europe. Then you would only have the 3 rookies in cousins, johnson and henry. Depth chart would be
Flynn/Sessions/Price
Henry/Brewer/Green/MoPete
AK/Johnson/Brewer
Darko/Love/AK/Songalia
Cousins/Darko

[shangrila]

Pekovic jumping to the NBA from Europe would be just as big if not bigger then a college player jumping to the NBA. I don't watch much European basketball but if it's anything like international basketball then it's an entirely different game and it will take time for Pekovic to adjust. European bigs making an immediate impact in the NBA is rare, other then Gasol I can't really think of anybody else who had an immediate impact so saying Pekovic won't have as much adjusting time is being hopelessly optimistic.

Ok, I'm not saying it wouldn't take time for him to adjust. But considering he's already had experience in a professional setting and his role wouldn't be that big to start with anything there's no doubt he'd have an easier time going from Europe to the NBA. The competition in Europe, contrary to what you might believe, IS better then the NCAA.

As for Pekovic not being on your roster, you did mention that we'd have a decision to make in regards to him so granted, maybe you'd think it'd be best to leave him in Europe (plus you included him on your latest roster so sounds like you think he should be here anyway).

I left him off because my initial roster was only for the draft and I couldn't be bothered doing the rest, but you acted like I did so I had to continue it. For the record I do want him to come over but if he doesn't I won't lose sleep.

As for guys like Wilkins and Cardinal; my roster had Price, Green, MoPete, and Songalia which would all be veteran presences (if any of them don't want to be veteran leaders, they can stay home). As for Prince being a better vet then AK, I for sure won't argue that; though I think AK in a contract year will put up some pretty good numbers.

Well numbers is pointless because the team would clearly be rebuilding or developing with that many rookies. But like I said Prince has better experience and Songalia, Peterson, Green and Price don't really provide anything. I mean Songalia and Peterson can barely play anymore and Green blows. Price is a nice young guy but didn't he get beat out of his spot by a D-Leaguer? If we're talking veterans they have to be able to provide some sort of decent function on the court, like a Wilkens, Miller or Allen, while having a positive influence in the locker room. And I know what you'll say so I'll answer by saying I only included Cardinal because the team seems to like him.

and in regards to Darko being a PF and wanting to start; make the big man depth Darko/Love and Cousins/Monroe

And then you've got a rookie centre rotation and just drafted a guy 9th who'll barely play in both the short and long term, as he won't be finding minutes between Cousins, Darko and Love.

Also if 4 rookies (Cousins, Johnson, Henry, Monroe) is too much but in your opinion but 3 (Cousins, Johnson, Pekovic) is fine, draft Motiejunas instead of Monroe and keep him in Europe. Then you would only have the 3 rookies in cousins, johnson and henry. Depth chart would be
Flynn/Sessions/Price
Henry/Brewer/Green/MoPete
AK/Johnson/Brewer
Darko/Love/AK/Songalia
Cousins/Darko

It's still unnecessarily crowded and I don't think most of those veterans would want to stick around, like Daniels did this offseason. I mean, you have a full roster of 15.

[skorff26]

Ok, I'm not saying it wouldn't take time for him to adjust. But considering he's already had experience in a professional setting and his role wouldn't be that big to start with anything there's no doubt he'd have an easier time going from Europe to the NBA. The competition in Europe, contrary to what you might believe, IS better then the NCAA.

I do believe the competition is better in Europe. I was pointing out that the European style of basketball is a lot more different then the college style of basketball and that is where he'd struggle more to adjust.

Well numbers is pointless because the team would clearly be rebuilding or developing with that many rookies. But like I said Prince has better experience and Songalia, Peterson, Green and Price don't really provide anything. I mean Songalia and Peterson can barely play anymore and Green blows. Price is a nice young guy but didn't he get beat out of his spot by a D-Leaguer? If we're talking veterans they have to be able to provide some sort of decent function on the court, like a Wilkens, Miller or Allen, while having a positive influence in the locker room. And I know what you'll say so I'll answer by saying I only included Cardinal because the team seems to like him.

It's still unnecessarily crowded and I don't think most of those veterans would want to stick around, like Daniels did this offseason. I mean, you have a full roster of 15.

I'd let any of the older guys know that if they want out then they would have to take a pay cut as Daniels did the year before. Also maybe I'm undervaluing Wilkins, but I don't think he belongs in the same discussion with guys like Miller and Allen. I think Wilkins-type players and I think of players like Green and Songalia (they all played about 20 minutes a game for their respective teams and are serviceable backups). I think those 2 guys if they want to be here could easily do what Wilkins did this year actually MoPete could be included too but IMO he'd opt for the buyout.

And then you've got a rookie centre rotation and just drafted a guy 9th who'll barely play in both the short and long term, as he won't be finding minutes between Cousins, Darko and Love.

Maybe Monroe isn't necessary. I do think he'd look very well in the triangle and could end up being the best pick out of those 4 for us. In regards to overcrowding, I wouldn't mind it being overcrowded with them 4 since: if we get Darko you never know if he would give up on us and be a headcase at some point; also as you stated in an earlier post, Love might not want the 6th man role and we may have to trade him at some point; and finally, I hate to prepare for this but injuries happen all the time, and if one of the 4 suffered a knee injury it could be a year+ until they recover (look at all the big man injuries that have occurred in the NBA in the past couple of years).

[shangrila]

I do believe the competition is better in Europe. I was pointing out that the European style of basketball is a lot more different then the college style of basketball and that is where he'd struggle more to adjust.

...but he's not going to college, he's going to the NBA. And if you compare the two, the European leagues are a LOT closer then the NCAA to the NBA style of rules. If you think about it, college kids have to deal with a shorter shot clock and longer games on top of the physical adjustment to playing with grown men. Europeans don't have as big of a gap.

I'd let any of the older guys know that if they want out then they would have to take a pay cut as Daniels did the year before. Also maybe I'm undervaluing Wilkins, but I don't think he belongs in the same discussion with guys like Miller and Allen. I think Wilkins-type players and I think of players like Green and Songalia (they all played about 20 minutes a game for their respective teams and are serviceable backups). I think those 2 guys if they want to be here could easily do what Wilkins did this year actually MoPete could be included too but IMO he'd opt for the buyout.

I put Wilkins with those two because he's familiar with the team and the system, so his value to the team goes up a little. But he was dependable and played well on both sides of the ball, something that can't be said for Green or Songalia really.

And now that I think about it, can you even reacquire Songalia at this point? You have to wait a year before trading him back to the team you got him from I believe and it hasn't been that long yet.

Maybe Monroe isn't necessary. I do think he'd look very well in the triangle and could end up being the best pick out of those 4 for us. In regards to overcrowding, I wouldn't mind it being overcrowded with them 4 since: if we get Darko you never know if he would give up on us and be a headcase at some point; also as you stated in an earlier post, Love might not want the 6th man role and we may have to trade him at some point; and finally, I hate to prepare for this but injuries happen all the time, and if one of the 4 suffered a knee injury it could be a year+ until they recover (look at all the big man injuries that have occurred in the NBA in the past couple of years).

If you like Monroe so much then make him the centre piece or something. But right now he clearly wouldn't be getting minutes. And I don't get why Darko would randomly flip out. I do agree that Love might not like his minutes but you don't really overcrowd your roster just to cover a trade. If he goes and the team is as well covered as they are at the wings then the team would just get another big back. Maybe an Anthony Randolph or something.

I won't go into injuries since it's impossible to predict but none of the guys you currently have in your rotation have any history of major injuries so there's no real incentive to planning for it. Like, Oden had a fairly long injury history before he ever hit the NBA and it's why his first injury was so concerning.