So is anybody else not loving our off-season right now?

[mandurugo]

Now we're in free agency. It was no secret that Kahn wanted Gay who is gone. Kahn is now doing everything in his power to move Jefferson after doing everything in his power to drive down his value including: making it painfully obvious that we do not want to go forward with Al on the roster, saying he was not a #1 option, signing 2 big men to a crowded frontcourt, saying that Darko was the only starter on our (15 win) team. This is how I see Kahn as a used car salesman:

...

I really don't think that this is a good example of how GM's assess value of players. In fact, I don't think anything Kahn has said affected Jefferson's value, all it did was indicate to other teams a willingness to trade him.

Well, in retrospect, we threw away the #16, and traded down with the #23 for some reason. I'd assume that the #4, #16, and #23 would've been enough to at least net Favors. If not, I would've considered giving even more. You can say "rabble, rabble, rabble, overpay" all you want, but I would've been happy. Not like our actual pick usage was some brilliant masterpiece.

I also don't think we have any reason to believe that offering the 4, 16, 23 would have been enough to get the number 3. Plus for all we know he did offer them - really it's impossible to say. You indicate that you would have been willing to offer more, but what do the wolves really have to sweeten that pot? Would you throw in Jefferson (and take back the Nets bad contracts), Love, Rubio? If I was the Nets I wouldn't have made the trade unless I could get an offer I couldn't refuse, an offer that timberwolves fans couldn't stomach.

[Dewey]

I don't like it much either. Ridnour visiting sucks the most.

This continues to make me believe Sessions or Flynn are on the table in a contingent deal ... most likely Sessions.

[shrink]

I would really be interested in what you suggest we should have done instead? Our biggest chip, the Al Jefferson situation, is still in the air.

OK, if I was dealt the cards Kahn had, I'd have played them much differently. I think that if you're going to overpay, you overpay hoping to find a guy that can be a #1. The two following trades can have additional assets added

NJN GETS: Kevin Love + Nikola Pekovic + #23
MIN GETS: #3 Pick

Prokhorov completes a big-man line-up of Brook Lopez, Love, and Pekovic for a team that's still young but can win now, and at least compete with the Lakers. That's the type of front line that helps them attract LeBron. Prokhorov used to own a team in Europe and wants to make the Nets international, so Pek would have more value. Kevin Love is an appealing player, taking the sting out for fans of losing #3 - but at least they don't need to wait for production.

For MIN, it not only gets us a shot at a legitimate #1 guy, but also moves Pekovic's cap hold. It also increases our leverage in Al Jefferson talks, since we don't need to move him to make room for Love + Pek.

Draft Favors at #3

Draft COUSINS at #4.

SAC GETS: Al Jefferson + #16
MIN GETS: Nocioni + #5

SAC desperately needs a big man, and now Cousins is off the board. The BPA, Wes Johnson duplicates a position of strength for them, with Casspi and Donta. They could draft Monroe, but using their cap space on Jefferson (they aren't going to be getting a major free agent) allows them to fill the need and get another big at #16. Jefferson is more likely to get turnstyles swinging, which the poor Maloof boys need to see happen. Al to downgrade the 5 to 16?

For MIN, they can use the #5 to draft Wes Johnson, who fills a big hole on this team. MIN adds a another good chunk of cap space for trade later..

Draft Wes Johnson at #5.

MIN now has a core, with mutliple emerging as our #1. MIN carries a huge chunk of cap space, and is open to deals from any team that needs it, Hopefully a well-priced deal from CHI, MIA, NJN, or NYK (we didn't know at the time). It still has value in other trades for teams over the lux, and MIN can serve as a giant financial broker for the rest of the season.

[shrink]

That's a team I'd be interested in following. Martell Webster, David Lee and Luke Ridnour, and excuses about inability to make trades, and more promises that the future looks better?

Who isn't disappointed in our off-season?

[Worm Guts]

If we end up with David Lee and Luke Ridnour, we made some trades.

[Foye]

I don't like it much either. Ridnour visiting sucks the most.

This continues to make me believe Sessions or Flynn are on the table in a contingent deal ... most likely Sessions.

I'd rather give a D-Leaguer the chance or just play with only 1 PG next season.

[Dewey]

I don't like it much either. Ridnour visiting sucks the most.

This continues to make me believe Sessions or Flynn are on the table in a contingent deal ... most likely Sessions.

I'd rather give a D-Leaguer the chance or just play with only 1 PG next season.

Not a bad idea ... maybe a good way to upgrade all three players included in this discussion.

[Swimmer]

+100, shrink

I would have thrown in any combination of Brewer, Ellington, taking on 1-2 year saries, and/or Sessions into making your scenario happen.

If absolutely nothing else, I think it was clear that SAC needed a big, not a wing, despite what Kahn says. They seem quite high on their existing wings, as shrink mentioned. By taking Johnson outright, we not only didn't take the player with the supposed higher upside (which we, as a team lacking in talent, need to always do), but we didn't even get some value by taking the best available center right before the team that desperately needs a center.

[SSUBluesman]

The Darko/Pek signings were not bad, especially in light of what other guys are getting paid. I like the fact that he has been aggressive in going after FA visits, however I'd be worried about how serious he takes them (as in seriously signing Lee/Ridnour). Obviously the jury is out on Al until he's dealt, however I think there's no reason to move him and it has been handled poorly. Drafting Johnson was a horrible pick given his skills/tools/position (both as a player and a draftee). The trades conducted weren't all that great, specifically in trading down to get the last pick in the 1st round (and in light of what happened with the 24th pick).

[skorff26]

I am happy with the offseason so far. We upgraded our wings, we signed two good role playing bigs to favorable deals, and we still have trade chips available. At the very least regardless of what else happens, I feel we are an improved defensive team.

We can argue all day long about whether we drafted the right guys or the value we gave up in our trades, but honestly it doesn't matter, most of that value was concocted in our fantasy world here on Real GM. POR couldn't trade gomes either...

As for Webster, I am not expecting him to be a 20/5/5 guy with great defense, but I do expect him to upgrade our defense, hit some open shots, and score 14-16 points per game with decent efficiency...if he does all that than he is well worth the contract and cap space we gace up for him(including trading gomes cap space)

Now I reserve entire judgement until after I see what happens with Jefferson and/or Love. If Jefferson gets traded for expirings, or Lee is signed in favor of Love, than I will have a different feeling.

I sitll hold out hope, that Kahn will be patient and hold on to Jefferson until a team gets desperate...and either his trade value improves, or Kahn hold on too long where he is 'forced' to keep Jefferson...

I agree with a lot you said, we have upgraded our team this offseason but I really don't like it. We spent a lot of money on 2 role playing bigs, and we did upgrade our wings but both are likely role players as well. we already had quite a few role players, what we need is a star. (A lineup of Flynn/Webster/Johnson/Love/Darko is still not very good)

I figured there were 4 possible ways going into the offseason that we could get a star 1) Jefferson rehabs his knee more and comes back on fire (Jefferson is likely gone for crap) 2) our cap space either through a trade or an unlikely signing (we used all of that up on role players in Pekovic, Darko, and Webster) and I doubt we'll have much in 2011 which is what I had been hoping for 3) #4 pick, Johnson is not a star player if you think he will be get off the homer bandwagon; we needed to take a high risk/high reward kind of player 4) Rubio (our only hope now)

So lets recap, we used most of our future flexibility this offseason to become a 25-30 win team. Next year with Rubio and a bit of maturing of our young guys we'll be a 35 win team... but with this core we likely will never win 50 games and teams such as OKC, Sacramento, and LAC have moved that much further ahead of us.

[skorff26]

OK, if I was dealt the cards Kahn had, I'd have played them much differently. I think that if you're going to overpay, you overpay hoping to find a guy that can be a #1. The two following trades can have additional assets added

NJN GETS: Kevin Love + Nikola Pekovic + #23
MIN GETS: #3 Pick

Prokhorov completes a big-man line-up of Brook Lopez, Love, and Pekovic for a team that's still young but can win now, and at least compete with the Lakers. That's the type of front line that helps them attract LeBron. Prokhorov used to own a team in Europe and wants to make the Nets international, so Pek would have more value. Kevin Love is an appealing player, taking the sting out for fans of losing #3 - but at least they don't need to wait for production.

For MIN, it not only gets us a shot at a legitimate #1 guy, but also moves Pekovic's cap hold. It also increases our leverage in Al Jefferson talks, since we don't need to move him to make room for Love + Pek.

[b]Draft Favors at #3

One correction shrink, Pekovic didn't have a cap hold since he was a 2nd rounder.

I think a Humphries + #3 for Pekovic + #23 + Love would have been very attractive for NJ. NJ could have then traded the #23 for 2nd rounders (no cap holds then)

They would have traded Favors's cap hold of 3,444,400 + Humphries 3,200,000 for Love's 3,638,280 and would have gotten an additional 3 million in cap space (which I think would have pushed them for sure into 2 max free agent territory), they would still have a front-court of Love/Lopez which is better to attract FA then a Favors/Lopez front-court, and I'm sure Prokhorov has seen Pekovic play before and I'd assume would really welcome him to his team.

[change]

I would really be interested in what you suggest we should have done instead? Our biggest chip, the Al Jefferson situation, is still in the air.

OK, if I was dealt the cards Kahn had, I'd have played them much differently. I think that if you're going to overpay, you overpay hoping to find a guy that can be a #1. The two following trades can have additional assets added

NJN GETS: Kevin Love + Nikola Pekovic + #23
MIN GETS: #3 Pick

Prokhorov completes a big-man line-up of Brook Lopez, Love, and Pekovic for a team that's still young but can win now, and at least compete with the Lakers. That's the type of front line that helps them attract LeBron. Prokhorov used to own a team in Europe and wants to make the Nets international, so Pek would have more value. Kevin Love is an appealing player, taking the sting out for fans of losing #3 - but at least they don't need to wait for production.

For MIN, it not only gets us a shot at a legitimate #1 guy, but also moves Pekovic's cap hold. It also increases our leverage in Al Jefferson talks, since we don't need to move him to make room for Love + Pek.

Draft Favors at #3

Draft COUSINS at #4.

SAC GETS: Al Jefferson + #16
MIN GETS: Nocioni + #5

SAC desperately needs a big man, and now Cousins is off the board. The BPA, Wes Johnson duplicates a position of strength for them, with Casspi and Donta. They could draft Monroe, but using their cap space on Jefferson (they aren't going to be getting a major free agent) allows them to fill the need and get another big at #16. Jefferson is more likely to get turnstyles swinging, which the poor Maloof boys need to see happen. Al to downgrade the 5 to 16?

For MIN, they can use the #5 to draft Wes Johnson, who fills a big hole on this team. MIN adds a another good chunk of cap space for trade later..

Draft Wes Johnson at #5.

MIN now has a core, with mutliple emerging as our #1. MIN carries a huge chunk of cap space, and is open to deals from any team that needs it, Hopefully a well-priced deal from CHI, MIA, NJN, or NYK (we didn't know at the time). It still has value in other trades for teams over the lux, and MIN can serve as a giant financial broker for the rest of the season.

too bad neither nets nor kings would accept those trades so you're dreaming
also i dont like either of them

[Swimmer]

Too bad neither nets nor kings would accept those trades so you're dreaming
also i dont like either of them

Why not? I don't think the value is far off. IMO SAC would rather have #16 + Al Jefferson than Wesley Johnson and Nocioni, since they already have wings they like and need a big. I don't believe Kahn one bit that SAC would have been happy with Cousins or Johnson.

I guess the Nets might pass, but Peko + Love + Lopez would be a great big rotation, and they can fill out a little with the #23. Additionally, the roster would be more immediately competitive and have some value to a European audience.

Again, in both, we could potentially add a little. And this gives us 3 legitimate shots at a star, a few years down the line.

PG: (Rubio)/Flynn/Sessions
SG: Brewer/Ellington
SF: Johnson
PF: Favors
C: Cousins/Darko

Looks like a solid foundation for a team, to me.

[mandurugo]

Too bad neither nets nor kings would accept those trades so you're dreaming
also i dont like either of them

Why not? I don't think the value is far off. IMO SAC would rather have #16 + Al Jefferson than Wesley Johnson and Nocioni, since they already have wings they like and need a big. I don't believe Kahn one bit that SAC would have been happy with Cousins or Johnson.

I guess the Nets might pass, but Peko + Love + Lopez would be a great big rotation, and they can fill out a little with the #23. Additionally, the roster would be more immediately competitive and have some value to a European audience.

Again, in both, we could potentially add a little. And this gives us 3 legitimate shots at a star, a few years down the line.

PG: (Rubio)/Flynn/Sessions
SG: Brewer/Ellington
SF: Johnson
PF: Favors
C: Cousins/Darko

Looks like a solid foundation for a team, to me.

I don't think those trades all that likely, but if they had gone through I'm afraid your foundational team would be destroyed. All rookies and second year players? That's the sort of epic train wreck that sends even good players out of the league.

[Swimmer]

I don't think those trades all that likely, but if they had gone through I'm afraid your foundational team would be destroyed. All rookies and second year players? That's the sort of epic train wreck that sends even good players out of the league.

That would have been the vision for the future.

Obviously, Favors comes off the bench for a couple years. Stopgap vets at SG, SF, PF. Sessions and Darko have been around for a few years. Maybe we even keep Gomes around. Our financial commitments are low, so we could pay for some decent guys to play and teach the kids.

[shrink]

too bad neither nets nor kings would accept those trades so you're dreaming
also i dont like either of them

Like I said in the very first paragraph, either trade could have additional assets added. Sessions, cap space, Brewer, .. whatever.

I'm no fan of overpaying, but if we're going to do it, lets do it for players that has a legiitimate chance of being a #1 option.

[Woomanchu]

This is how the Wolves could still salvage this offseason. Trade Jefferson for Josh Smith and Kevin Love for Nicholas Batum. This upgrades the hell out of the length and the athleticism on this team. Johnson and Batum would lock down the perimeter, Rubio would play free safety, and Smith would protect the weakside. Smith, Batum, and Johnson would be perfect running mates for Rubio, while Batum and Johnson could both be 40% 3 point shooters. Pekovic, Beasley and Flynn would come off the bench and just abuse the second teamers. Brewer would be there for defensive support and Ellington would be there if all of the 3 point shooters were cold.

Milicic/Pekovic
Smith/Beasley
Batum/Brewer
Johnson/Ellington
Rubio/Flynn

[shangrila]

The offseason got a little better after getting Beasley for nothing.

[Swimmer]

This is how the Wolves could still salvage this offseason. Trade Jefferson for Josh Smith and Kevin Love for Nicholas Batum. This upgrades the hell out of the length and the athleticism on this team. Johnson and Batum would lock down the perimeter, Rubio would play free safety, and Smith would protect the weakside. Smith, Batum, and Johnson would be perfect running mates for Rubio, while Batum and Johnson could both be 40% 3 point shooters. Pekovic, Beasley and Flynn would come off the bench and just abuse the second teamers. Brewer would be there for defensive support and Ellington would be there if all of the 3 point shooters were cold.

Milicic/Pekovic
Smith/Beasley
Batum/Brewer
Johnson/Ellington
Rubio/Flynn

Ahh, if only the basketball gods were so kind to us. Unfortunately, I think both teams turn down both those trades.