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Some potential inside information

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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#41 » by Krapinsky » Tue Dec 7, 2010 8:47 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
shaolin wrote:I find it exceptionally challenging to attempt to reason with stat obsessed commentators since it's so inadequate on so many levels. For that reason i will refrain from consuming desirable time and energy on it as people constantly insisting on repeating numbers are hard to alter in matters. I will stress this point though, It's an incredibly sorry and narrow-minded way to analyze players and the face value of players. While statistics are a decent formal tool in measuring players' impact, it still leaves out and can not account for good many vital aspects of activities in games.
I'll admit, at first i thought a majority of American NBA fans could be placed under this stat-freak-doctrine category but luckily a good number of realgm users proved me wrong through thorough readings. Still, the problem is very present.

Michael Beasley compared to Love is the bigger prospect.


You can call Beasley a better prospect, you can't call him a better player.


You might say the same when comparing Love to Griffin or Wall though to. As some point that distinction shouldn't matter to us.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#42 » by Krapinsky » Tue Dec 7, 2010 8:55 pm

Interesting stat from a positive SI piece on Beasley:

In games Beasley has scored 20-plus points, Minnesota is 4-6; when he goes for less than 20, they are 0-9.

Rambis says he want shim to take advantage of post up opportunities -- that would have been nice last night.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... z17SfYVrEX
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#43 » by horaceworthy » Tue Dec 7, 2010 8:57 pm

Gobble wrote:Get the hell out of here. Kevin Love cannot score in the halfcourt unless someone else sets him up. He doesn't have no low post game, but it's nothing impressive. All of his points come from someone getting him an open jumper, or him getting o-rebounds and scoring around the basket. That's why the team has had 2 legitimate offensive plays this season. Clear out for Beasley, let him do something. Or, throw it to Darko in the post, let him do something. Because Love can't do the same thing, plus giving him the ball takes him out of the thing he does best which is scoring those garbage points. To all these people saying Love is the better player (and I like Love a lot), name for me a single other alpha dog NBA star in history who plays no defense and can't consistently get offense in the half court? Beasley can do it in the half court, so it's gotta be him.

So far this year, this is looking to be a crock of bull. Love struggles to score around the rim off of rebounds in traffic over longer and more athletic players, but when he's gotten the chance to dictate what type of shot he gets, he's looked quite adept. His jump hook looks as if it will be a reliable post move, now he needs to develop a counter to it. He's also shown an understanding of how to create space with his face-up game from the elbow on in. He's also a deadly option in the pick-and-pop (a play in which he has a little something to do with getting that open jumper). All those are ways he can get shots in the half court. Just because plays aren't being run for him doesn't mean that plays can't be run for him. He's exceptionally good at cleaning up misses, but that shouldn't be seen as a reason that he can't get his shot in the half court. If his shot is actually as good as it looks lately, that opens up a variety of ways he could create offense based on that threat.

If you think that the Wolves have only had two legitimate offensive plays this season, and that both have basically been "give the ball to player X and let him do something," that would seem to be more of an indictment of the coaching staff than anything else.

mandurugo wrote:I wonder if defensive side of things is something that will prevent Beasley from ever truly transitioning to a 3. He's fine on the offensive side of the ball, at least he has enough of a perimeter game to make the attempt. On defense I think he has the mindset and reactions of a 4/5. That's the position he played when he had his greatest success, but he's never truly played it in the pros.

Doesn't bode well for this experiment I think.

I think it would be more accurate to say that his mental lapses on that side of the ball may play a part i preventing him from becoming a true #1 on a good team. He has the physical tools to be competent, but he loses track of his man and gets sucked towards the action too often. That's a problem irregardless of the position he's playing. The difference is that as a 3 he's giving up open treys, but as a 4/5 he'd be giving up open midrange jumpers and bunnies at the rim.

Defense is something that needs work no matter what position he plays. In theory it should eventually be easier to hide him on the perimeter, as there will be less responsibility in terms of providing help, but he's got to learn to stay with his man for that to happen.
"A while back,'' Cardinal said, "I took a picture of the standings and texted it to Love, just to bust his chops,'' Cardinal said. "He sent me a picture back of a snowdrift.''
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#44 » by shangrila » Tue Dec 7, 2010 9:30 pm

Some explanations to how I read it;

shangrila wrote:2 things could help Beasley at 3 and KLove at 4 succeed. 1 is a strong, defensive minded shot blocking 5. Darko continues to show promise – but needs a huge dose of consistency to make that be the permanent solution. Pek is a huge internal disappointment – he is MUCH farther away from filling this roll than anyone had hoped. Would not be surprised if later this year something was done to find another option for a defensive minded Darko back up. (Not meaning Pec is traded – just someone else be given a chance)

To me, this looks like they want Darko to be more consistent. Which is fair enough. He fits what we want him to do but you can't have guys going 1-10, 14-15 then 3-13 you know? And Pek hasn't been filling his role, which I'm guessing was an offensive big off the bench. You can tell he's still adjusting to the length and strength of the NBA.

The other thing that would help would be excellent defensive help at 2. Here again, there is some internal disappointment. They expected there to be a learning curve for Wes coming out of AAU/Syracuse Zone defense. But that curve is turning out to be steeper and longer than hoped for. He is especially poor at both tracking and closing out the shooters on the 3 point line. It is the basic reason you are seeing far more Brewer (probably x2 as many minutes actual vs original plan).

Not sure what to make of this, but it might mean looking for an upgrade in trade. Even if it's just something small, like an expiring veteran.

If push comes to shove, the staff all know that an NBA title contender must have an A1 player with the ability to create his own shot at the crunch time. Beasley is the only one projected (and that includes Rubio) to be that A1 player on the current/future Twolves roster. (Barring of course a miracle lottery #1 pick in the near future). KLove is regarding as a perennial All Star rebounding mega star. But if they can’t succeed defensively together, KLove will be moved. Because A1 scorers are the rarest birds in the NBA.

But a trade ain’t happening anytime soon. NO ONE will be happy if it comes to that – it will be done VERY reluctantly.

I think it's clear from this that they're trying to build around Love, Beasley and Rubio. It's also looks like Love will only be moved if they don't work defensively and even then it would be a reluctant trade. I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I guess the feeling is that if they don't work defensively it would mostly be on Love because his issues, like athleticism, can't be fixed the same way Beas' can.

Just my 0.02c
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#45 » by revprodeji » Tue Dec 7, 2010 9:41 pm

I do not buy any of this. I have yet to hear anyone this critical of Pekovic or Johnson.

We knew Pekovic would struggle to avoid fouls and to play defense at first in the NBA. He is allowed to get away with much more in Europe. Regardless, you do not give up on that kind of prospect with his size and scoring touch.

I have only heard praise for Johnson's defense.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#46 » by shangrila » Tue Dec 7, 2010 9:54 pm

Go back and read it.

He says Pekovic has been a disappointment in filling his role, which is fair enough. He's definitely struggled on both ends even when healthy.

He also says Johnson has been a bad team defender and while I haven't been watching specifically for it, I don't believe that the constant open 3s are all Beasley's fault.

More importantly he doesn't talk about getting rid of either. He says they're talking about adding an athletic, defensive big which Ronzone talked about months ago anyway and that they're just giving Brewer more minutes then Johnson for the moment.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#47 » by Krapinsky » Tue Dec 7, 2010 10:15 pm

shangrila wrote:Go back and read it.

He says Pekovic has been a disappointment in filling his role, which is fair enough. He's definitely struggled on both ends even when healthy.

He also says Johnson has been a bad team defender and while I haven't been watching specifically for it, I don't believe that the constant open 3s are all Beasley's fault.

More importantly he doesn't talk about getting rid of either. He says they're talking about adding an athletic, defensive big which Ronzone talked about months ago anyway and that they're just giving Brewer more minutes then Johnson for the moment.


In other words, he doesn't provide any inside information whatsoever. This guy seems like an imposter.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#48 » by Yes We Kahn » Tue Dec 7, 2010 11:21 pm

Krapinsky wrote:In other words, he doesn't provide any inside information whatsoever. This guy seems like an imposter.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#49 » by Worm Guts » Tue Dec 7, 2010 11:27 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
shaolin wrote:I find it exceptionally challenging to attempt to reason with stat obsessed commentators since it's so inadequate on so many levels. For that reason i will refrain from consuming desirable time and energy on it as people constantly insisting on repeating numbers are hard to alter in matters. I will stress this point though, It's an incredibly sorry and narrow-minded way to analyze players and the face value of players. While statistics are a decent formal tool in measuring players' impact, it still leaves out and can not account for good many vital aspects of activities in games.
I'll admit, at first i thought a majority of American NBA fans could be placed under this stat-freak-doctrine category but luckily a good number of realgm users proved me wrong through thorough readings. Still, the problem is very present.

Michael Beasley compared to Love is the bigger prospect.


You can call Beasley a better prospect, you can't call him a better player.


You might say the same when comparing Love to Griffin or Wall though to. As some point that distinction shouldn't matter to us.


I personally dont think Beasley is a better prospect. Beasley has the higher ceiling, but every year they've been in the league Love has been better. If I had to pick who would have the better career, I would pick Love.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#50 » by Twolves98 » Tue Dec 7, 2010 11:35 pm

The problem with us as NBA fans is when we see young players we look at potential(probably one of the worst things you can grade a player on).
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#51 » by shangrila » Tue Dec 7, 2010 11:57 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
shangrila wrote:Go back and read it.

He says Pekovic has been a disappointment in filling his role, which is fair enough. He's definitely struggled on both ends even when healthy.

He also says Johnson has been a bad team defender and while I haven't been watching specifically for it, I don't believe that the constant open 3s are all Beasley's fault.

More importantly he doesn't talk about getting rid of either. He says they're talking about adding an athletic, defensive big which Ronzone talked about months ago anyway and that they're just giving Brewer more minutes then Johnson for the moment.


In other words, he doesn't provide any inside information whatsoever. This guy seems like an imposter.

The guys at Canis say he's legit and he's been right in the past, apparently. I mean it's "insider information", all of it should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#52 » by The J Rocka » Wed Dec 8, 2010 12:27 am

Yes We Kahn wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:In other words, he doesn't provide any inside information whatsoever. This guy seems like an imposter.

Haha I didn't learn anything new about this article what so ever.

Almost cool story bro worthy.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#53 » by AQuintus » Wed Dec 8, 2010 12:33 am

J_Era_3 wrote:
Yes We Kahn wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:In other words, he doesn't provide any inside information whatsoever. This guy seems like an imposter.

Haha I didn't learn anything new about this article what so ever.

Almost cool story bro worthy.


We learned that the front office (supposedly) is seeing the same things that fans are, and that the earlier rumors about the front office wanting to move Love either weren't true or have changed.

Both are good things, imo.

Edit:

We also learned that all of the open 3s that the team gives up is more a matter of the young guys struggling to execute the defensive scheme rather than the scheme itself.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#54 » by shangrila » Wed Dec 8, 2010 1:12 am

Bingo. Nice post AQ
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#55 » by Krapinsky » Wed Dec 8, 2010 1:19 am

AQuintus wrote:
We learned that the front office (supposedly) is seeing the same things that fans are,


Or we just learned what this one guy is seeing.

AQuintus wrote:and that the earlier rumors about the front office wanting to move Love either weren't true or have changed.


It has already been widely reported that we had no interest in trading him. Note: the "rumors" that we wanted to trade Love also originated on Canis ==> posters making crap up.

AQuintus wrote:Both are good things, imo.
Neither provides any new info.

AQuintus wrote:Edit:

We also learned that all of the open 3s that the team gives up is more a matter of the young guys struggling to execute the defensive scheme rather than the scheme itself.


We learned the coaches/front office aren't blaming their defensive scheme on open three pointers? WOW! I learned that from watching games and seeing multiple open three pointers raining in, followed by Rambis calling a timeout and cussing out our wing players.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#56 » by The J Rocka » Wed Dec 8, 2010 1:24 am

shangrila wrote:Bingo. Nice post Krap

Fixed.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#57 » by shangrila » Wed Dec 8, 2010 6:05 am

Right
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#58 » by Swimmer » Wed Dec 8, 2010 7:09 am

JAF is quite a reputable poster at CH, and he's always been upfront about his information -- that he has a friend in the front office who he occasionally discusses hoops with, that he can only extract information that comes up in these conversations, and that this is clearly second-hand information (he himself reacting to information given from his friend's reactions). I don't think it should be assumed that he is trying to manipulate our perceptions because he wants to feel important, as he's been reliable in the past.

Rumors or not, it confirms that we will continue the Love-Beasley experiment, and yes, it does provide the "new" info that the FO's thoughts are in line with some of our own.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#59 » by Krapinsky » Wed Dec 8, 2010 3:30 pm

....or that our own thought are in line with our own thoughts.

As long as there is the internet there will be people that like to make themselves seem more important than they really are. It allows everyone to be the Wizard of Oz.
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Re: Some potential inside information 

Post#60 » by eyeteeth » Wed Dec 8, 2010 5:07 pm

Krapinsky wrote:....or that our own thought are in line with our own thoughts.

As long as there is the internet there will be people that like to make themselves seem more important than they really are. It allows everyone to be the Wizard of Oz.

Damnit! Did I give myself away??
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