Wolves Talent Depth Chart

[SportsGuy8]

I see a lot of you are somewhat willing to trade Randolph and Pekovic. I would wait with both of them.

I think Randolph will benefit the most by playing next to Rubio. As I wrote in the Rubio thread, yeah Randolph is a lazy whiner, however, I think playing next to Rubio will not only bring the most out of Randolph's strength (athletic abilities), but could also motivate him (every player gets motivated after making some exciting plays, mainly Alley-Oops and open dunks).

As for Pekovic. Euro big men always need a longer period to get used to the NBA. Once he fully adapts, he'll be a very good post scorer (he even showed this in flashes this year), perhaps he can even crack top10 center list (keep in mind that C position is very weak). If Marc Gasol can do it, I see no reason why Pek can't.
Also, as this season progressed, he became more and more efficient, ending the year at 57 TS%. He should become a player with 60+ TS%, and that's very valuable, especially since he can get shots by himself (strong post-up game).

[JMillott]

I think the reason why people might be willing to part with guys like Anthony Randolph and or Nikola Pekovic is fairly obvious, if you want to get something back via trade you've got to be willing to send out some type of value to get the other team to make a deal.

Not everyone is going to lie to themselves and think that by packaging more lackluster pieces into a trade offer makes it a better offer when in fact most NBA teams are quite intelligent in not wanting to waste roster spots.

Flynn
Hayward
Ellington
Telfair
Koufos

Right now based on what they've actually done all these guys have negitive trade value and adding them doesn't improve a trade offer from the Wolves it actually hurts their offers. Sure they still have value on the trade market in the sense that it can help to have throw ins that can help make the numbers work but out of that group of guys i'd say Johnny Flynn is the only guy a team might have direct interest in giving a chance to.

Every team in the NBA knows he was a terrible fit in Rambis's system and with Kahn's roster because you don't put an undersized pick and roll PG on a team and ask them to stand around as a set shooter. Now its highly unlikely that any team would have any interest in bringing Flynn in to start but I could see teams with depth issues seeing the talent and giving him a shot to redeem himself.

I just don't think you can expect him to be viewed as anything more then an attractive throw in by any team via trade. In other words he's the most attractive throw in that the Wolves have but he's not going to bring much back for being the easiest to swallow.

If you guys want to get a player who can actually help the team improve its going to require sending something else of value out the door.

[Yes We Kahn]

Flynn
Hayward
Ellington
Telfair
Koufos

Telfair is a free agent and Koufos was already traded to Denver.

[Krapinsky]

Flynn
Hayward
Ellington
Telfair
Koufos

Telfair is a free agent and Koufos was already traded to Denver.

Now I see why he hates Beasley so much.

Because he doesn't actually follow the Wolves.

[JMillott]

I've more then explained my feelings towards Beasley and backed them up with reasons and statistical evidence supporting my views, all i've heard is that i'm hating on the guy or some nonsense about his potential which some of you think was validated by a terribly inefficient year of chucking on a 17 win team during which time some how his -6.2 PER differential at SF convinced you all that he was a SF.

As for Telfair being a free agent and Koufos being traded, it slipped my mind but the point I was making still stands. Putting a package of garbage together doesn't increase the worth of the garbage, in fact in order to dump garbage you have to send out an asset good enough to get teams to take your garbage.

You want to dump the dead weight roster spots that have been wasted then something of value is going with them, at least as long as you're hoping to get anything in return beyond getting the guy out of town.

This is a GM that just traded Al Jefferson for the #20 overall pick in this draft and a future 1st from Utah possibly or cash, yet you expect him to get more then market value for the likes of Flynn, Ellington, Pekovic, etc?

You don't want to deal Michael Beasley (who can't play next to Love at SF) but I hardly see a peep on this board complaining that he gave away Al Jefferson (who was more compatible with Love then Beasley in my eyes) for the exact same reason why i'm saying that Beasley should be traded. Keep in mind that to get Al Jefferson it required the best player in Sota history and one of the top 25 or so players in league history to get Jefferson vs picking up Beasley for spare change.

[Knicksfan20]

what do u guys think of wesley johnson? i kno he didnt have the greatest rookie year...but

waht does he need to work on?
whaat did he do well?
what part of his game surprises u?
how good do u think he can/will be?

just curious i was a fan of his at syracuse, and didnt watch him much this season.

[Krapinsky]

I've more then explained my feelings towards Beasley and backed them up with reasons and statistical evidence supporting my views, all i've heard is that i'm hating on the guy or some nonsense about his potential which some of you think was validated by a terribly inefficient year of chucking on a 17 win team during which time some how his -6.2 PER differential at SF convinced you all that he was a SF.

As for Telfair being a free agent and Koufos being traded, it slipped my mind but the point I was making still stands. Putting a package of garbage together doesn't increase the worth of the garbage, in fact in order to dump garbage you have to send out an asset good enough to get teams to take your garbage.

You want to dump the dead weight roster spots that have been wasted then something of value is going with them, at least as long as you're hoping to get anything in return beyond getting the guy out of town.

This is a GM that just traded Al Jefferson for the #20 overall pick in this draft and a future 1st from Utah possibly or cash, yet you expect him to get more then market value for the likes of Flynn, Ellington, Pekovic, etc?

You don't want to deal Michael Beasley (who can't play next to Love at SF) but I hardly see a peep on this board complaining that he gave away Al Jefferson (who was more compatible with Love then Beasley in my eyes) for the exact same reason why i'm saying that Beasley should be traded. Keep in mind that to get Al Jefferson it required the best player in Sota history and one of the top 25 or so players in league history to get Jefferson vs picking up Beasley for spare change.

You can't rely on 82games flawed stats to prove a point. As i've pointed out time and time again, they've screwed up the rotations and positions of the Wolves players. For instance, when Beasley and Tolliver are on the floor together they put Tolliver at the SF spot and Beasley at the PF spot. The numbers are flawed and prove nothing.

[JMillott]

I'd call Tolliver the SF and Beasley the PF out of that group as well. I'd like to hear why you think that is wrong actually? If its because Tolliver rebounds more then that actually is flawed thinking.

[Breakdown777]

As for Telfair being a free agent and Koufos being traded, it slipped my mind but the point I was making still stands. Putting a package of garbage together doesn't increase the worth of the garbage, in fact in order to dump garbage you have to send out an asset good enough to get teams to take your garbage.

This is a GM that just traded Al Jefferson for the #20 overall pick in this draft and a future 1st from Utah possibly or cash, yet you expect him to get more then market value for the likes of Flynn, Ellington, Pekovic, etc?

I don't think anybody here is really doing what you are accusing. Most of the deals MN fans are throwing around are "Flynn for a TPE or to move up from #20"

Are Ellington and Hayward really dead weight? They are on guaranteed deals, but they are tiny deals as they were drafted like 27th and 30th respectively. I'm only speaking for myself, but I'd assume that most are with me when I say we hardly view Ellington and Lazar as anything more than filler.

Flynn I'd argue for, but I'd use the same argument that you posted. I can see a few teams willing to take a chance on him...most likely if we were to get something back we'd need to include something else.

Pekovic I'd rather keep, as I don't think most teams would be willing to take his contract for what little he has shown. At the same time, GMs are smart and if they see something in him they like, they might want him included in the deal. That's what this thread was supposed to be about, informing other teams posters how we rank our assets, and in which ways we'd most likely accept them being included in a deal.

[Breakdown777]

what do u guys think of wesley johnson? i kno he didnt have the greatest rookie year...but

waht does he need to work on?
whaat did he do well?
what part of his game surprises u?
how good do u think he can/will be?

just curious i was a fan of his at syracuse, and didnt watch him much this season.

Wes needs to work on his ball handling, and (for MN) getting more used to the SG position.
His confidence could use work, but that should come in time.

His shot form is very good. He's athletic. He's no Corey Brewer, but I rarely saw him take plays off (Although I will admit I didn't watch much of the end of the season...so he may have regressed like the rest of this sadsack team did). Wes seemed like a smart player. He still made rookie mistakes, but there was a patience I saw in him. Like he knew what the right decision was quite often. As a fan of the Wolves, this stuck out to me right away.

How good can he be? I think he'll be a starter in this league. Right now, a #3 scorer is probably his ceiling. His skills reminds me of Shawn Marion, only with a good shooting form. His personality is humble, but I don't really see a killer instinct. Solid starter at the 3, but can play/defend other positions if needed.

[AQuintus]

all i've heard is that i'm hating on the guy or some nonsense about his potential which some of you think was validated by a terribly inefficient year of chucking on a 17 win team during which time some how his -6.2 PER differential at SF convinced you all that he was a SF.

People think that you're hating because you give a free pass to Wes Johnson despite being less efficient (.491 TS% vs .510 TS%) and having an even worse PER differential at the SF spot (-6.3).

[JMillott]

all i've heard is that i'm hating on the guy or some nonsense about his potential which some of you think was validated by a terribly inefficient year of chucking on a 17 win team during which time some how his -6.2 PER differential at SF convinced you all that he was a SF.

People think that you're hating because you give a free pass to Wes Johnson despite being less efficient (.491 TS% vs .510 TS%) and having an even worse PER differential at the SF spot (-6.3).

I can respect that and agree that i've largely given Wesley Johnson a free pass on a poor rookie season but I think I can explain why.

Wesley played a large percentage of his minutes at Cuse not at SF but at PF defending the baseline in a 2-3 zone. I understand that the Wolves asked both Beasley and Wesley to learn and play a new position on the fly and to me I think Wesley had the bigger adjustment and not just because of the position change.

Wesley did most of his damage in college on either the break, spot ups, off screens and offensive putbacks from the weakside. Basically he wasn't asked to do much of anything that would make for a smooth transition from his role in college to his role as a rookie SG in the triangle.

I also consider Wesley's future to be as a mostly off the ball type who runs his man to death off screens, makes backdoor cuts, set up in the corner, etc with a little off the dribble action developing over the years ala Dale Ellis, Reggie Miller, Rip Hamilton, Allan Houston, etc.

So his future is always going to be semi-dependant on playing with guys who will hit him while he is open and guys who will set him quality picks and screens. I don't think I could dream up a less ideal perimeter combo to play next to him than Luke Ridnour and Michael Beasley or a worse system for him to come into than the triangle.

So basically, I never expected him to have much success last year in this system with these players around him and once it became clear that Flynn and Jefferson wouldn't be around for him to compliment I thought he was screwed.

With Rubio in place as the PG and some hope that they could trade for Andre Igoudala its quite possible that Wesley Johnson is going to go from the worst possible combo next to him to one of the most ideal ones for his talent that I could think of. So if he gets a better chance to have success and fails i'll take that seriously.

Now i'm sure you'll say but Beasley was asked to play out of position last year too, to this i'd simply say that making the move to SF is not at all in Beasley's best interests long-term. I simply don't think he can be successful at the position at least not compared to the success he could have as a PF in this league in my opinion.

See Beasley's only real skill that he brings to the table is to score, he isn't a good defender, he isn't a good rebounder, he isn't a good passer, he doesn't have good court vision, he isn't a good ball handler, etc.

He can score, he can shoot a little, has some nice range, he can create shots but he has much more success doing these things by forcing bigger PF's to try and come out to challenge his shot which then frees him to attack the rim or pull up inbetween once he has them backing up.

None of those things he does are advantages at SF, in fact bringing smaller quicker players out to defend him and his dribble lead to him turning it over far more often then he does against bigger players. His shooting isn't any real advantage at the SF position like it is for him as a PF, its not like he can live off jumpers since he runs hot and cold with it too.

Playing him at SF doesn't provide him any advantages but playing him at PF does. Same way I don't think playing Wesley at SF doesn't give him any edge but his length, quickness and athletic ability gives him a chance to be an excellent defensive SG in time and his shooting touch, lift on his jumper and high release point should allow him a clean shot coming off a screen vs just about any SG.

[Krapinsky]

Wesley Johnson will never run his man to death off screens. Guy does even run period.

[HotrodBeaubois]

What would give for Brendan Haywood? Randolph and Tolliver?

[The J Rocka]

What would give for Brendan Haywood? Randolph and Tolliver?

....no.

[Breakdown777]

What would give for Brendan Haywood? Randolph and Tolliver?

I like that Haywood provides defense and shot blocking. I don't like the price tag and his reputation while playing on poor teams (he and Darko would probably kill each other). While I think the value is close, the negatives of bringing in Haywood far outweigh the positives.

[KAHN_SWITCH]

Darko will be our starting C next year. I actually think he will have a good season. Optimistic much?

[phonzadellika]

See Beasley's only real skill that he brings to the table is to score, he isn't a good defender, he isn't a good rebounder, he isn't a good passer, he doesn't have good court vision, he isn't a good ball handler, etc.

He can score, he can shoot a little, has some nice range, he can create shots but he has much more success doing these things by forcing bigger PF's to try and come out to challenge his shot which then frees him to attack the rim or pull up inbetween once he has them backing up.

None of those things he does are advantages at SF, in fact bringing smaller quicker players out to defend him and his dribble lead to him turning it over far more often then he does against bigger players. His shooting isn't any real advantage at the SF position like it is for him as a PF, its not like he can live off jumpers since he runs hot and cold with it too.

I think Beasley did fine as a scoring SF last year...his turnovers were more the result of him not paying attention to what was going on than him being outclassed in any way ball-handling wise...he also rebounded fine at a decent rate (especially playing next to Love)...it's true that he'll never make an amazing pass but he's willing to pass...I'm willing to give him another year at SF, I want to see what he can do after an off-season of working on the position.

I loved the rest of your post though, and I don't even necessarily disagree with you that Beasley's better position may be PF...but I definitely think he can make it in the league as a SF and if he can get his brain under control he could also be a star.