MIN - DET

[shrink]

Flynn, Pekovic, #20 for Rip, #8 seems like a decent enough deal all-around. Detroit clears Rip's contract and gets to take a couple fliers on some young guys, Minny gets a second lotto pick to play around with.

WHY FOR DET?: I understand that at this time of the year, all fans fall in love with their picks, believing that not only will their guy be there, but he will max out his upside and become a star. Realistically though, in this 2-player draft, teams need to HOPE they can get a starter. Now, the #8 probably has the best chance at that, but in gswhoops deal, the Pistons would get three chances for that starter. While MIN has so many young players they lack the minutes to develop all their players, I think DET may offer a situation where they have more opportunity and more value.

WHY for MIN? The 8 gives them a little more flexibility for trade, or even to draft a player. While MIN's pieces may have more specific value to DET, that isn't true about all teams, so the 8 may have more trade value elsewhere. gswhoops' trade also reduces the financial impact of Rip in 2012. While MIN is dealing a couple players with roughly fair salaries, they may need the financial wiggle room for new contracts, especially if they have Rip on the books. Even with a buy-out, the guy costs $9 mil in 2012.

Rip H. $12.65, $12.65 ($9 for buy-out)
#8 Pick $2.2, $2.4

Flynn $3.4
Pek $4.6, $4.9
#20 $1.4, $1.5

2011-12 MIN ADDS: $5.5 mil
2012-13 MIN ADDS: $16.6*

* subtract $4.3 if we re-upped, and subtract $3.6 if we took the Rip buy-out

[shangrila]

I don't like Rip so I wouldn't do it.

[shrink]

I ran the numbers on gswhoops trade:

DET GETS: Flynn + Pekovic + #20 + $4.6 mil TPE + $18 mil in savings.

MIN GETS: Rip + #8


Rip H. $12.65, $12.65 ($9 for buy-out)
#8 Pick $2.2, $2.4

Flynn $3.4, $4.3 (if DET does the deal, they'd pick up Flynn's 2012 option. Could be erased to save)
Pek $4.6, $4.9
#20 $1.4, $1.5

2011-12 DET SAVES: $5.5 mil
2012-13 DET SAVES: $12.3*

* subtract $3.6 if they were going to take the Rip buy-out

==============================================================

This trade would need a little adjustment though. MIN doesn't have $5 mil in cap space to do the deal as is. Replacing the 20 with Lazar Haywood almost fits. Most likely, there would have to be an additional player coming out of DET, or use Webster's "near-expiring" to do a deal before June 30th.

[Fire Mchale]

I actually like this deal more than perhaps any others we've bantered about thus far. While it eliminates our ability to participate in FA, the only player I really wanted to spend on was Marc Gasol and he's at best a reach to consider us shy of us badly overpaying for him. That being said, Rip's contract is terrible, but it's at least only 2 years of terrible contract. After this season, he's an expensive expiring contract and if we give him minutes to showcase that he still has game (which I believe he doe) he, might actually fetch a return a year from now.

What's curious about this potential deal is the wheels it sets in motion. In dealing Pek, we're forced to draft a C or trade the 2 or 8 to get one. Is the #8 enough to get a Martin Gortat? If it is, I make that move though I understand that Jonny Flynn is the player Phoenix wants from us. If Gortat isn't attainable with that pick, it forces the Wolves to move back at least a pick or two to make a Kanter/Valuncianas pick. I would much rather have Gortat than Kanter and would consider a #2 and filler for Gortat and 13 deal. That would allow us to move the 8 or 13 to a team for 2012 1st round considerations and use the other pick on our SG of the future - Burks, Brooks.

I like it - even if it means we keep our two picks and use them this year.

[[RCG]]

I actually like this deal more than perhaps any others we've bantered about thus far. While it eliminates our ability to participate in FA, the only player I really wanted to spend on was Marc Gasol and he's at best a reach to consider us shy of us badly overpaying for him. That being said, Rip's contract is terrible, but it's at least only 2 years of terrible contract. After this season, he's an expensive expiring contract and if we give him minutes to showcase that he still has game (which I believe he doe) he, might actually fetch a return a year from now.

What's curious about this potential deal is the wheels it sets in motion. In dealing Pek, we're forced to draft a C or trade the 2 or 8 to get one. Is the #8 enough to get a Martin Gortat? If it is, I make that move though I understand that Jonny Flynn is the player Phoenix wants from us. If Gortat isn't attainable with that pick, it forces the Wolves to move back at least a pick or two to make a Kanter/Valuncianas pick. I would much rather have Gortat than Kanter and would consider a #2 and filler for Gortat and 13 deal. That would allow us to move the 8 or 13 to a team for 2012 1st round considerations and use the other pick on our SG of the future - Burks, Brooks.

I like it - even if it means we keep our two picks and use them this year.

Well said.

[shrink]

What about something like this then:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ataksq

DET OUT: Hamilton + #8
DET IN: Flynn + Pek + Hayward + $4 mil TPE

PHX OUT: Gortat
PHX IN: #8 + Webster + Tolliver

MIN OUT: Flynn + Pek + Hayward + Webster + Tolliver
MIN IN: Gortat + Hamilton

DET starts a youth movement with three prospects and saves money

PHX gets the #8, a cheap replacement in Tolliver, and a near expiring in Webster

MIN gets a starting center and roster space for pieces, but chomps into it's 2012 money.

[the_bruce]

I like rip. The #8 & the #2 would be great imo.

Williams & Biyombo drool.

[Krapinsky]

I proposed a deal with the same basic framework after the lottery results came out. Detroit fans did not like it.

Personally, I still think it makes a lot of sense for them. I don't think there's that wide of a gap between the talent available at 8 and 20 in this draft as compared to other drafts.

[shrink]

Fans mostly poopoo any trade that saves their owner money, and lean towards trades that bring talent, regardless of the cost. While unrealistic, I think sources within the Pistons front office have said they wouldn't use the 8 just to get rid of Rip for the CLE TPE. Personally, I find that unlikely. Sure the new owner wants to put his best foot forward, but he also is forced to plunk down $350-400 mil for this team - to keep it in Detroit. I would not begrudge him cattung off $25 mil by moving Rip.

I think the middle ground is something like this, where he still saves some money, but hides it by adding some youth with a little upside. He can market it to fans as "come see us grow" and certainly last year, DET's normally loyal fans didn't want to come and see Rip.


DET and PHX are two places where Flynn would have the most value. Which one do you think would see more value in him? If PHX is mixed in for Gortat, as Fire McHale recommends, it doesn't matter how we'd ditribute the 5 pieces we'd trade. The better job we do directing them to the places they have the most value, the more likely other fans would agree.

[Fire Mchale]

I've heard a lot of the same from Pistons fans - they won't just make Rip go away at the expense of losing a draft choice. I partially get their point, but also think they're making a mistake in the impact Rip's contract plays for that organization. If they were able to acquire say Jonny Flynn AND get some contract help, they can at least go back to their fans and say they've acquired a young player at a position of need and get themselves in a better position financially.

That being said, I sense Phoenix is a more likely trade partner. If they do like Jonny and Gortat is movable, then we may as well cut out the middle man and deal with them directly. I think the move for a C is the more prevalent need and possibly most attainable. In this case, we have a pick and a player they supposedly desire and they have a pick and a player that we would desire. You could debate the value of the 13 this year, but I still feel like the best value in this year's draft is after the top-10.

[Breakdown777]

Another argument DET fans might have is that with a new coach, more might not feel the need to dump Rip.

Here's another thought. If DET desperately wants to market a rookie this year, could we snag a future 1st from them? I think I'd still do a Flynn+Pek+#20 for Rip and Top 10 protected 2012, as I think Rip is a perfect fit for this team. It would suck to lose out on Burks/Brooks/Biyombo, but if we get Rip, SG doesn't become as much of a need.

[PuppyBite]

This trade is more based on matching salaries and then filling in with players and picks. It would be a massive trade, but the core of it is three players. If DET wants to move Rip, then how about this:

HOU gets: Carlos Boozer (McHale likes PFs?)
CHI gets: Rip Hamilton (Needs a shooter)
DET gets: TBD (Players and picks)
MIN gets: Kevin Martin (Better than the rumor of moving the #2 for him)

[karch34]

Another argument DET fans might have is that with a new coach, more might not feel the need to dump Rip.

Here's another thought. If DET desperately wants to market a rookie this year, could we snag a future 1st from them? I think I'd still do a Flynn+Pek+#20 for Rip and Top 10 protected 2012, as I think Rip is a perfect fit for this team. It would suck to lose out on Burks/Brooks/Biyombo, but if we get Rip, SG doesn't become as much of a need.

I like the idea. I think Rip would settle the SG position in the short term and maybe Webster and/or Wes wind up showing that they could handle the SG position long term. Or maybe another option emerges.