Worth a try: MN/IND/TOR

[RCG] · Post #1 » by **[RCG]** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:15 am

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7mrcxpv

Wolves out: Webster, Ridnour, Miller, Utah '12 1st, MEM '13 1st, MN '14 1st
Wolves in: George, Amundson

Wolves get the SG they desperately need.

Rubio/Barea
George/Ellington/Lee
Johnson/Beasley
Love/Williams/Tolliver
Pekovic/Randolph

Pacers out: George, Collison, Amundson
Pacers in: DeRozan, Calderon, Ridnour, Milicic, MEM '13 1st, MN '14 1st

Pacers get a PG more capable of a deep playoff-run for a downgrade at SG. They upgrade back-up PG/C spots though and add a couple 1sts.

Raptors out: DeRozan, Calderon
Raptors in: Collison, Webster, Miller, Utah '12 1st

Raptors get a younger, much cheaper PG who has potential, a couple of cheap buy-outs and a first rounder.

Post #2 » by **The J Rocka** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:19 am

I don't think the Pacers move George at all unless they're making a move for Rondo or someone of that caliber.

Piecake · Post #3 » by **Piecake** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:20 am

pacers arent doing that

Post #4 » by **Klomp** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:23 am

George might be the Pacers closest thing to an untouchable.

[RCG] · Post #5 » by **[RCG]** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:32 am

ohh welll. Maybe this?:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lueo2r

Wolves in: Bargnani, DeRozan, Calderon
Raptors in: Williams, Webster, Ridnour, Milicic, Miller, Utah 1st

Rubio/Calderon
DeRozan/Ellington/Lee
Beasley/Johnson
Love/Bargnani/Tolliver
Pekovic/Bargnani/Randolph
&
Ridnour/Bayless
Webster/Barbosa
J.Johnson/Williams/Webster
Williams/Davis/A.Johnson
Valanciunias/Milicic/A.Johnson
+plus an additional 1st and tons of cap-space.

Narf · Post #6 » by **Narf** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:46 am

I don't think George is worth that much. I honestly don't watch Pacers games enough to know though. He didn't look that great against the Wolves, but that was one game. What makes George so good? Is his defense stellar?

Post #7 » by **Klomp** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:56 am

[RCG] wrote:ohh welll. Maybe this?:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lueo2r

Wolves in: Bargnani, DeRozan, Calderon
Raptors in: Williams, Webster, Ridnour, Milicic, Miller, Utah 1st

Rubio/Calderon
DeRozan/Ellington/Lee
Beasley/Johnson
Love/Bargnani/Tolliver
Pekovic/Bargnani/Randolph
&
Ridnour/Bayless
Webster/Barbosa
J.Johnson/Williams/Webster
Williams/Davis/A.Johnson
Valanciunias/Milicic/A.Johnson
+plus an additional 1st and tons of cap-space.

We talk now about too much value invested in the PF position, but I think this makes it even moreso. Plus, I like Williams' potential future fit at SF next to Love better than Bargnani's fit at C next to Love.

DeRozan is a nice idea, but he still is another wing who can't shoot or dribble. The upgrade from Johnson to DeRozan on FG% (36.6% to 38.6%) and 3FG% (23.9% to 30.9%) isn't enough for me to pull the trigger.

moss_is_1 · Post #8 » by **moss_is_1** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:34 am

Narf wrote:I don't think George is worth that much. I honestly don't watch Pacers games enough to know though. He didn't look that great against the Wolves, but that was one game. What makes George so good? Is his defense stellar?

The same thing that made Nic Batum so valuable there. Potential. Batum hasn't really gotten there because of a lack of aggressiveness.

George is already a pretty efficient role player, he can really do it all. Plays good defense on the 1-3, shoots the 3, has a solid handle to create a shot, and he's a nice passer / rebounder.

I doubt the Pacers trade him, unless they can get a legit #1 guy on there team.

cpfsf · Post #9 » by **cpfsf** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:17 am

[RCG] wrote:ohh welll. Maybe this?:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lueo2r

Wolves in: Bargnani, DeRozan, Calderon
Raptors in: Williams, Webster, Ridnour, Milicic, Miller, Utah 1st

I think the trade would be easier if it was just Williams for DeRozan. A lot of the other pieces just seem pointless.

Post #10 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:10 pm

Toronto politely declines that trade.

Dewey · Post #11 » by **Dewey** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:55 pm

This all just goes to show how little value our players are on the market ... I wonder if Beas, Wes, and Webster know the Pacers would never consider all 3 of them for George?

I don't think they have a clue how lowly they are valued ...

[RCG] · Post #12 » by **[RCG]** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:57 pm

cpfsf wrote:
[RCG] wrote:ohh welll. Maybe this?:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lueo2r

Wolves in: Bargnani, DeRozan, Calderon
Raptors in: Williams, Webster, Ridnour, Milicic, Miller, Utah 1st

I think the trade would be easier if it was just Williams for DeRozan. A lot of the other pieces just seem pointless.

Only problem is that I think Williams is worth a considerable amount more. Plus they have a couple PFs already, especially if Bargnani is still there it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Post #13 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:23 pm

cpfsf wrote:I think the trade would be easier if it was just Williams for DeRozan. A lot of the other pieces just seem pointless.

Easier in the sense that Colangelo wouldn't take it; this trade doesn't offer anything that Toronto is really looking for, you have to realize. Senseless as it seems, they value DeRozan above his capabilities because they believe he is in proto-form and can be a significant star player for them. I know, I see this every time Colangelo opens his ridiculous yap to lie about our team. Ugh.

Post #14 » by **C.lupus** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:34 pm

I'm not really sure Derozan is the best fit here anyway. Yes, we are desperate for a SG and he would be an upgrade but he's kind of lacking in the ball handling and outside shooting departments. He'd look great running with Ricky, though.

Post #15 » by **C.lupus** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:39 pm

Dewey wrote:This all just goes to show how little value our players are on the market ... I wonder if Beas, Wes, and Webster know the Pacers would never consider all 3 of them for George? I don't think they have a clue how lowly they are valued ...

Exactly. Lots of people are complaining that Kahn hasn't made any trades to bring in wing talent but it takes two (or three) teams to make a trade and, honestly, I doubt most GMs want our junk any more than we do. I do think Ridnour should have some value to certain teams that are looking for a vet backup PG. Beas probably has a bit of value, too. I doubt Wes and Webster have any value.

Narf · Post #16 » by **Narf** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:50 pm

If George is so highly valued, I would be interested in snagging Granger. If George is their untouchable then why not rebuild faster?

Post #17 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:13 pm

C.lupus wrote:I'm not really sure Derozan is the best fit here anyway. Yes, we are desperate for a SG and he would be an upgrade but he's kind of lacking in the ball handling and outside shooting departments. He'd look great running with Ricky, though.

He wouldn't be an upgrade. He can't consistently create for himself and he's an awful perimeter shooter. Yeah, he'd finish well in transition, but that's about all he does on a regular basis. Now and again, he'll heat up, he'll get aggressive against a mediocre defense, etc. DeRozan is a really interesting 3rd weapon and if you want to let him develop, he MIGHT turn into a solid 20 ppg scorer. Maybe. But honestly, the Wolves would be instantaneously better with just some better spot-up shooting.

I hope JR Smith signs.

jpatrick · Post #18 » by **jpatrick** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:55 pm

C.lupus wrote:
Dewey wrote:This all just goes to show how little value our players are on the market ... I wonder if Beas, Wes, and Webster know the Pacers would never consider all 3 of them for George? I don't think they have a clue how lowly they are valued ...

Exactly. Lots of people are complaining that Kahn hasn't made any trades to bring in wing talent but it takes two (or three) teams to make a trade and, honestly, I doubt most GMs want our junk any more than we do. I do think Ridnour should have some value to certain teams that are looking for a vet backup PG. Beas probably has a bit of value, too. I doubt Wes and Webster have any value.

I agree with this in the sense that we're not getting a high caliber wing unless the other team really values Williams, who is our only "really" valuable asset. However, Kahn doesn't get any kind of break because he put us in this situation by completely whiffing on #4 and #6 picks the past couple of years. One could also argue that he should have traded the #2 pick while it had the highest value, prior to the draft, but to be fair we have no idea who, if anyone, was available for that pick.

TyKixx · Post #19 » by **TyKixx** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:04 pm

tsherkin wrote:Toronto politely declines that trade.

I am thinking not so politely.

Calderon >>> Ridnour
Derozan >>> Webster
Bargnanni >>> Miller

...for Derrick Williams and Utah's protected pick?

cpfsf · Post #20 » by **cpfsf** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:31 pm

tsherkin wrote:
cpfsf wrote:I think the trade would be easier if it was just Williams for DeRozan. A lot of the other pieces just seem pointless.

Easier in the sense that Colangelo wouldn't take it; this trade doesn't offer anything that Toronto is really looking for, you have to realize. Senseless as it seems, they value DeRozan above his capabilities because they believe he is in proto-form and can be a significant star player for them. I know, I see this every time Colangelo opens his ridiculous yap to lie about our team. Ugh.

I should have worded it better. Toronto wouldn't do the trade. I was just trying to say that there isn't any reason to include some of the other assets listed, e.g., Bargnani to Minnesota.