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Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over?

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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#21 » by Dewey » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:01 pm

The new look "Arm Chair Quarterback, Speculator, and Hindsighters" thread... post your shoulda-woulda-coulda's here.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#22 » by El Hespiritu » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:34 pm

Killboard wrote:Flip didnt want Mitchell coaching the team, otherwise he would have put him in that position.

Flip literally appointed Interim I to coach the team.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#23 » by Battletrigger » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:00 am

Killboard wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:The Flips rebuild died with him, we will never know what Flip would do back there, only what Thibs or Rosas have done with their assets.

The team you say can be funny to watch, but definetly it's not a contender. To be a contender these days you have to have a very special player like Kawhi, KD, Bron or Curry. And don't have a player near that level.


We have a top15 player (at worst) in the league who happens to be 23 years old. But neither of the players you mentioned made their teams special without a very good to all-star cast around them. When KAT had it the wolves won close 50 games in the bloodbath that is the west.


I disagree, we had a very good player in KAT and paired him with a top 15 player in the league. That player was traded and we remained the very good one.

Basketball has two ends, not only the offensive one.

And well, Bron and Kawhi have reached playoffs with a wrost team that Wolves last year. KAT is a very good player, an All Star, but he is not a top player in the league, he isn't even the best in his position.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#24 » by Killboard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:54 am

Battletrigger wrote:
Killboard wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:The Flips rebuild died with him, we will never know what Flip would do back there, only what Thibs or Rosas have done with their assets.

The team you say can be funny to watch, but definetly it's not a contender. To be a contender these days you have to have a very special player like Kawhi, KD, Bron or Curry. And don't have a player near that level.


We have a top15 player (at worst) in the league who happens to be 23 years old. But neither of the players you mentioned made their teams special without a very good to all-star cast around them. When KAT had it the wolves won close 50 games in the bloodbath that is the west.


I disagree, we had a very good player in KAT and paired him with a top 15 player in the league. That player was traded and we remained the very good one.



Basketball has two ends, not only the offensive one.

And well, Bron and Kawhi have reached playoffs with a wrost team that Wolves last year. KAT is a very good player, an All Star, but he is not a top player in the league, he isn't even the best in his position.


IMO the wolves had 2 top 15 the year before. The previous year to that the Bulls were the 8th seed in the weak east and last year the wolves won 36 games with the second best player playing less than half season and the starting PG missing 40 games.
That made Bayless/Terrell/Cannan play close to 1000 minutes. They were terrible.
They also played 2200 development minutes to Okogie and KBD.

I don't think Kawhi has made the playoffs in such circumstances.
Lebron could in the east but could not last season.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#25 » by Killboard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:54 pm

El Hespiritu wrote:
Killboard wrote:Flip didnt want Mitchell coaching the team, otherwise he would have put him in that position.

Flip literally appointed Interim I to coach the team.


He did, and he signed him as assistant coach before that. But Flip appointed himself as Head Coach. That was my point.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#26 » by El Hespiritu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:22 pm

Killboard wrote:
El Hespiritu wrote:
Killboard wrote:Flip didnt want Mitchell coaching the team, otherwise he would have put him in that position.

Flip literally appointed Interim I to coach the team.


He did, and he signed him as assistant coach before that. But Flip appointed himself as Head Coach. That was my point.
Mmmh...
So:
Flip didn't want Ryan coaching the team, otherwise he would have put him in that position.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#27 » by Killboard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:34 pm

El Hespiritu wrote:
Killboard wrote:
El Hespiritu wrote:Flip literally appointed Interim I to coach the team.


He did, and he signed him as assistant coach before that. But Flip appointed himself as Head Coach. That was my point.
Mmmh...
So:
Flip didn't want Ryan coaching the team, otherwise he would have put him in that position.


I don't see how Ryan is getting in this discussion. I wont even discuss any sport decision Flip could have made after knowing his life was compromised since they were probably just half meditated.

Which I will discuss is that while being healthy he signed Mitchell and Ryan as assistants (I dont see the comparison won't go much further than that) and himself as a Head Coach.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#28 » by El Hespiritu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:23 pm

Ok...

Your opinion: "He didn't do it before" = "He didn't want it".
My opinion: "He did it" = "He wanted it".
This is perfectly arguable.

Your opinions about how much meditated were Flip's decissions are baseless.
And this is unarguable.
Basically, because I won't argue about it anymore.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#29 » by SO_MONEY » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:28 pm

wesleyt95 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:Yes. At this point you've got to get creative and figure out a way to add a guard. Pissing off Jimmy with that Wiggins extension and then not paying him was sorta silly.

A Covington/KAT frontcourt is good enough to be pretty competitive if you get a 3rd star and then add some depth though.

Jeff Teague, Josh Okogie, 2020 1st, 2022 1st + 2nd for Jrue Holiday at the deadline
Stop giving away our youth and picks, we need to build this thing.

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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#30 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:20 pm

SO_MONEY wrote:
wesleyt95 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:Yes. At this point you've got to get creative and figure out a way to add a guard. Pissing off Jimmy with that Wiggins extension and then not paying him was sorta silly.

A Covington/KAT frontcourt is good enough to be pretty competitive if you get a 3rd star and then add some depth though.

Jeff Teague, Josh Okogie, 2020 1st, 2022 1st + 2nd for Jrue Holiday at the deadline
Stop giving away our youth and picks, we need to build this thing.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Three picks (two FRPs), Teague's expiring and Okogie just for Jrue? Not a chance I'd ever do that.
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Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#31 » by minimus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:26 pm

wesleyt95 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:Yes. At this point you've got to get creative and figure out a way to add a guard. Pissing off Jimmy with that Wiggins extension and then not paying him was sorta silly.

A Covington/KAT frontcourt is good enough to be pretty competitive if you get a 3rd star and then add some depth though.

Jeff Teague, Josh Okogie, 2020 1st, 2022 1st + 2nd for Jrue Holiday at the deadline


I would say that Jrue Holiday has similar value to Jimmy Butler. So that trade was Zach LaVine (potential star), Kris Dunn (neutral value), No. 7 Pick for Jimmy. Jeff Teague (expiring), Josh Okogie (role player), 2020 1st (probably lottery pick), 2022 1st + 2nd (deep draft) for Jrue Holiday are a bit too much. I'd pay this price if last year in his contract was not PO. I'd offer Jeff Teague (expiring), Josh Okogie (role player), 2020 1st (probably lottery pick), and one from Reid/Nowell group. KAT-RoCo-Holiday is very balanced trio.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#32 » by Jedzz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:36 pm

How exactly do the "build along Town's timeline" people accept a Jrue Holiday incoming trade while dumping all assets? He's half a year older than Covington and has two more seasons on him (10 seasons).

Jrue costs 26MM/yr and you would only get him for 2+1(maybe 3) years. How can anyone be suggesting sending out three picks for him, plus a number of our young hopefuls? I think Jrue is a good player. But he's not moving the needle here or completing a big three that is going to do much, not when you send away all your building assets.

Pels had Jrue/Davis for 6 seasons since 2013-14. During which, they had 2 "winning" records, they had 5 PGs besides him 4 of those 6 years. In those years he was listed as a 2guard. He's a combo guard. Their last winning season two years back was when they brought in Rondo starting at point for 63 games. Are people hoping he's our star PG here? Or do they want to just add another body to our wing or combo guard factory?

I think he's a solid player. Maybe one FRP pick, plus they take Wiggins back. Fairly even monies. They get a frp plus the Wiggonator (the man says he will shoot for stardom this year). We have to look at Jrue's guaranteed money generally the same way we look at Wiggin's. Some teams are getting crazy stupid lately on deals. Jrue's been slightly more efficient/consistent of course, which is why we pay a FRP.

I'm not sure how Jrue jumped into this thread. Is someone saying he was on Flip's radar?
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#33 » by wesleyt95 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:05 am

minimus wrote:
wesleyt95 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:Yes. At this point you've got to get creative and figure out a way to add a guard. Pissing off Jimmy with that Wiggins extension and then not paying him was sorta silly.

A Covington/KAT frontcourt is good enough to be pretty competitive if you get a 3rd star and then add some depth though.

Jeff Teague, Josh Okogie, 2020 1st, 2022 1st + 2nd for Jrue Holiday at the deadline


I would say that Jrue Holiday has similar value to Jimmy Butler. So that trade was Zach LaVine (potential star), Kris Dunn (neutral value), No. 7 Pick for Jimmy. Jeff Teague (expiring), Josh Okogie (role player), 2020 1st (probably lottery pick), 2022 1st + 2nd (deep draft) for Jrue Holiday are a bit too much. I'd pay this price if last year in his contract was not PO. I'd offer Jeff Teague (expiring), Josh Okogie (role player), 2020 1st (probably lottery pick), and one from Reid/Nowell group. KAT-RoCo-Holiday is very balanced trio.

Give or take a pick I posted a baseline offer, 2 picks in the 2022 draft may have been a little aggressive but haters gonna hate :roll: :roll:
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#34 » by wesleyt95 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:08 am

Jedzz wrote:How exactly do the "build along Town's timeline" people accept a Jrue Holiday incoming trade while dumping all assets? He's half a year older than Covington and has two more seasons on him (10 seasons).

Jrue costs 26MM/yr and you would only get him for 2+1(maybe 3) years. How can anyone be suggesting sending out three picks for him, plus a number of our young hopefuls? I think Jrue is a good player. But he's not moving the needle here or completing a big three that is going to do much, not when you send away all your building assets.

Pels had Jrue/Davis for 6 seasons since 2013-14. During which, they had 2 "winning" records, they had 5 PGs besides him 4 of those 6 years. In those years he was listed as a 2guard. He's a combo guard. Their last winning season two years back was when they brought in Rondo starting at point for 63 games. Are people hoping he's our star PG here? Or do they want to just add another body to our wing or combo guard factory?

I think he's a solid player. Maybe one FRP pick, plus they take Wiggins back. Fairly even monies. They get a frp plus the Wiggonator (the man says he will shoot for stardom this year). We have to look at Jrue's guaranteed money generally the same way we look at Wiggin's. Some teams are getting crazy stupid lately on deals. Jrue's been slightly more efficient/consistent of course, which is why we pay a FRP.

I'm not sure how Jrue jumped into this thread. Is someone saying he was on Flip's radar?

Be careful when u say 'all' cuz thats far from the truth, Jrue wouldnt come cheap AT ALL and it makes our starting 5 able to compete with the best of em, as of now i'm not worried about our bench depth
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#35 » by wesleyt95 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:13 am

Wiggins aint going nowhere right now so please stop mentioning his name unless u put some respeck on it... Idgaf about our 'radar' unless it leads to contention... maybe the wolves 'radar' needs to be recalculated cuz the **** hasnt worked, EVER!
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#36 » by wesleyt95 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 am

and last but not least, if u dont agree w/ me youre probably stupid and u can kiss my a$$! idgaf
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#37 » by Jedzz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:32 am

wesleyt95 wrote:Wiggins aint going nowhere right now so please stop mentioning his name unless u put some respeck on it... Idgaf about our 'radar' unless it leads to contention... maybe the wolves 'radar' needs to be recalculated cuz the **** hasnt worked, EVER!


The great part of this is you telling us the Wolves should change their 'radar' because it's never "EVER" worked, and here they have been starting Wiggins this whole time and forcing the ball into his hands and locking their financial future to him. Think about this for a second. Would you? Had Flip never made that trade, how different do things happen since? What would they actually have gotten in return for Love if they had refused Wiggins being in the deal? Where would the Wolves be right now?
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#38 » by Zeitgeister » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:57 am

Killboard wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Killboard wrote:I will be forever greatful for picking and developing KG, and picking KAT over Okafor. Every other pick or move is worth discussing and should not be glorified by his likeable memories

LaVine was a great pick too


It was a good pick but isnt comparable to the other two IMO. Lavine was a high risk pick who mitigated half of the risk by developing into a very efficient shooter. But for example Denver that draft picked Gary Harris, Nurkic and Nikola Jokic with the 16th, 19th and 41th pick. They literally turned around the franchise with that value.


To think, Flip could have done something similar by picking Giannis and Rudy Gobert in the same draft.
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#39 » by wesleyt95 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:21 am

Jedzz wrote:
wesleyt95 wrote:Wiggins aint going nowhere right now so please stop mentioning his name unless u put some respeck on it... Idgaf about our 'radar' unless it leads to contention... maybe the wolves 'radar' needs to be recalculated cuz the **** hasnt worked, EVER!


The great part of this is you telling us the Wolves should change their 'radar' because it's never "EVER" worked, and here they have been starting Wiggins this whole time and forcing the ball into his hands and locking their financial future to him. Think about this for a second. Would you? Had Flip never made that trade, how different do things happen since? What would they actually have gotten in return for Love if they had refused Wiggins being in the deal? Where would the Wolves be right now?

Idc about what happened back in 2013, I dont even care about what happened last year, keep playing coulda woulda shoulda while the rest of us stay positive and live in the moment... have fun watching Wiggins next year whether u like it or not
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Re: Safe to say Flips 2013 rebuild has failed and is over? 

Post#40 » by Jedzz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:23 am

wesleyt95 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
wesleyt95 wrote:Wiggins aint going nowhere right now so please stop mentioning his name unless u put some respeck on it... Idgaf about our 'radar' unless it leads to contention... maybe the wolves 'radar' needs to be recalculated cuz the **** hasnt worked, EVER!


The great part of this is you telling us the Wolves should change their 'radar' because it's never "EVER" worked, and here they have been starting Wiggins this whole time and forcing the ball into his hands and locking their financial future to him. Think about this for a second. Would you? Had Flip never made that trade, how different do things happen since? What would they actually have gotten in return for Love if they had refused Wiggins being in the deal? Where would the Wolves be right now?

Idc about what happened back in 2013, I dont even care about what happened last year, keep playing coulda woulda shoulda while the rest of us stay positive and live in the moment... have fun watching Wiggins next year whether u like it or not


Thanks for your philosophy of losing. Remember, it was you who said the Wolves should change their ways because "cuz the **** hasnt worked, EVER!". You can't have it both ways. Change, but don't change. Whether you like it or not, your suggestions need to follow some kind of logic or at least track from one to the next.

Living in the moment huh. Let me ponder that a while. As far as not caring about last year or years before, well, that's the only way you start making better decisions, by learning something from the past. But let's say we don't care and let's live for now and to hell with any past decisions. Fine. Then move Wiggins now to live for now. Wolves could even just bench him completely or make him a 6th man at best in usage. No? Oh I see, you are just one of those who believed the Wolves' hype on Wiggins so much early on that you have refuse to release it. That would be living in the past. It is ok. I get it. But please don't lecture me on living for now if you aren't willing to.
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