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Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1)

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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#201 » by Jedzz » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:15 am

Klomp wrote:
Our problem has been that we don't TAKE 3-pointers more than we don't MAKE 3-pointers.


The solution isn't just 3 pointers. This is oversimplification and if the team goes and only oversteers on 3 pt attempts it will be a lot like Mike Zimmer oversteering his football team into all running and only passing 10 times a game. There is more to correct and if they tunnel vision on this they will go way off the road to winning because they obviously don't have the shooters to exist purely on that.

We were below average on usage of Dunks, Layups, 3 pointers, and probably more. This team has seemingly forever existed on way too many weakly tossed bunnies off broken plays and long twos and we all know it. It has subtracted from all the higher percentage and higher gains shots. This team needs more constant discipline and skills work from top to bottom than they've had in the past.

Saying all that, I'm instantly seeing more discipline in the plan when it comes to 3s already. We've seen a little of what they are doing in practice already. We see the increased attempts in the first preseason game. That's great. Now, they also have to reel in the rest of it.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#202 » by wesleyt95 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:17 am

Jedzz wrote:Anyone want to discuss Culver's turnovers, travels, airball? Or are we just going to hope it was rookie butterflies? He did settle down and in the end produce more than Okogie offensively. That has to show something. But was it what you expected?

Culver didnt get any summer league run, rookies need time to adjust there's nothing to be worried about rn
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#203 » by Jedzz » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:19 am

wesleyt95 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Anyone want to discuss Culver's turnovers, travels, airball? Or are we just going to hope it was rookie butterflies? He did settle down and in the end produce more than Okogie offensively. That has to show something. But was it what you expected?

Culver didnt get any summer league run, rookies need time to adjust there's nothing to be worried about rn


Well I hope you are right. I can see it being possible it's just rust and butterflies. But I can also see a lot of free excuses flying a lot like they did for ol'Wiggins for years simply because he was the guy they sunk all their hope into. Just keeping both eyes open and seeing if others are willing to. Not maing any claims myself.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#204 » by minimus » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:04 am

We need those corner 3s from Wiggins, Okogie, Culver and others. The spacing with KAT at the top of 3pt line is there. Now it is time to use it as advantage. Shooting spotup corner threes might a simplу solution to improve efficiency for Wiggins, Okogie, Culver.

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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#205 » by wesleyt95 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:20 am

Jedzz wrote:
wesleyt95 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Anyone want to discuss Culver's turnovers, travels, airball? Or are we just going to hope it was rookie butterflies? He did settle down and in the end produce more than Okogie offensively. That has to show something. But was it what you expected?

Culver didnt get any summer league run, rookies need time to adjust there's nothing to be worried about rn


Well I hope you are right. I can see it being possible it's just rust and butterflies. But I can also see a lot of free excuses flying a lot like they did for ol'Wiggins for years simply because he was the guy they sunk all their hope into. Just keeping both eyes open and seeing if others are willing to. Not maing any claims myself.

It's way too early for any negativity you just stated
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#206 » by Dewey » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:21 pm

Tell ya what ... the poor defernse, poor 3pt shooting, and wiggins play is not a good sign of positive change. No signs whatsoever of a player outside of Towns that says playoff caliber. Make all the excuses you want, but the facts are in the eye test, stat sheet, and W/L column. The NEW system excuse has no impact on poor 3pt shooting, defense, and wiggins inability to be a man. We'll know alot more once ROCO is back in game shape and player minutes dial back, but early on, that game looks and smells bad.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#207 » by Foye » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:03 pm

Dewey wrote:Tell ya what ... the poor defernse, poor 3pt shooting, and wiggins play is not a good sign of positive change. No signs whatsoever of a player outside of Towns that says playoff caliber. Make all the excuses you want, but the facts are in the eye test, stat sheet, and W/L column. The NEW system excuse has no impact on poor 3pt shooting, defense, and wiggins inability to be a man. We'll know alot more once ROCO is back in game shape and player minutes dial back, but early on, that game looks and smells bad.


This team is not going to make the playoffs this year.
I have no doubt about that in my mind.

Everything about this roster except Towns screams mediocre. And it won't change until Teague, Dieng and possibly Wiggins are gone.

No more Rose, no more Tyus. PG position got worse.
Culver will need some time to adapt to the pros.

Only possible surprise positive if given the chance I see is Naz Reid. I think he can play.

In short: This season will be a waste of Towns career.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#208 » by wesleyt95 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:22 pm

Foye wrote:
Dewey wrote:Tell ya what ... the poor defernse, poor 3pt shooting, and wiggins play is not a good sign of positive change. No signs whatsoever of a player outside of Towns that says playoff caliber. Make all the excuses you want, but the facts are in the eye test, stat sheet, and W/L column. The NEW system excuse has no impact on poor 3pt shooting, defense, and wiggins inability to be a man. We'll know alot more once ROCO is back in game shape and player minutes dial back, but early on, that game looks and smells bad.


This team is not going to make the playoffs this year.
I have no doubt about that in my mind.

Everything about this roster except Towns screams mediocre. And it won't change until Teague, Dieng and possibly Wiggins are gone.

No more Rose, no more Tyus. PG position got worse.
Culver will need some time to adapt to the pros.

Only possible surprise positive if given the chance I see is Naz Reid. I think he can play.

In short: This season will be a waste of Towns career.

Culver showed flashes of an elite handle, his development as a lead guard this year would be a huge plus for this team as well... if an Okogie Culver backcourt works we could slide Roco to the 3 and draft an athletic 4 with a high ceiling
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#209 » by wesleyt95 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:29 pm

Also if you watched the suns game you'd know the point Culver concept is already a reality
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#210 » by KGdaBom » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:45 pm

Jedzz wrote:
wesleyt95 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Anyone want to discuss Culver's turnovers, travels, airball? Or are we just going to hope it was rookie butterflies? He did settle down and in the end produce more than Okogie offensively. That has to show something. But was it what you expected?

Culver didnt get any summer league run, rookies need time to adjust there's nothing to be worried about rn


Well I hope you are right. I can see it being possible it's just rust and butterflies. But I can also see a lot of free excuses flying a lot like they did for ol'Wiggins for years simply because he was the guy they sunk all their hope into. Just keeping both eyes open and seeing if others are willing to. Not maing any claims myself.

I don't see any excuses for Culver needed. IMO he played very well.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#211 » by Foye » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:59 pm

wesleyt95 wrote:
Foye wrote:
Dewey wrote:Tell ya what ... the poor defernse, poor 3pt shooting, and wiggins play is not a good sign of positive change. No signs whatsoever of a player outside of Towns that says playoff caliber. Make all the excuses you want, but the facts are in the eye test, stat sheet, and W/L column. The NEW system excuse has no impact on poor 3pt shooting, defense, and wiggins inability to be a man. We'll know alot more once ROCO is back in game shape and player minutes dial back, but early on, that game looks and smells bad.


This team is not going to make the playoffs this year.
I have no doubt about that in my mind.

Everything about this roster except Towns screams mediocre. And it won't change until Teague, Dieng and possibly Wiggins are gone.

No more Rose, no more Tyus. PG position got worse.
Culver will need some time to adapt to the pros.

Only possible surprise positive if given the chance I see is Naz Reid. I think he can play.

In short: This season will be a waste of Towns career.

Culver showed flashes of an elite handle, his development as a lead guard this year would be a huge plus for this team as well... if an Okogie Culver backcourt works we could slide Roco to the 3 and draft an athletic 4 with a high ceiling


Dont get me wrong. I have high hopes for Culver. I just don‘t think he will immediately be able to be a major contributor.
It is a development year for him, as well as the other rookies.

At the end of the year we will be sitting at 30-35 wins again with KAT starting to get pissed about not progressing in the wins column and not making the playoffs.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#212 » by Klomp » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:46 pm

Jedzz wrote:The solution isn't just 3 pointers. This is oversimplification and if the team goes and only oversteers on 3 pt attempts it will be a lot like Mike Zimmer oversteering his football team into all running and only passing 10 times a game. There is more to correct and if they tunnel vision on this they will go way off the road to winning because they obviously don't have the shooters to exist purely on that.

We were below average on usage of Dunks, Layups, 3 pointers, and probably more. This team has seemingly forever existed on way too many weakly tossed bunnies off broken plays and long twos and we all know it. It has subtracted from all the higher percentage and higher gains shots. This team needs more constant discipline and skills work from top to bottom than they've had in the past.

Never said it was just 3-pointers. But that is part of it.

It's about becoming a more efficient offense. Get 3s and get to the rim. No team is going to attempt all of their shots at the rim, so the 3-point line is important. I've never said 3-pointers should replace layups and dunks. But I do believe that our percentage of field goals from 3-point range needs to improve. We were at 31% 3-point rate last year (26th in NBA). Even getting up to 40% would put us in the Top 10 in the league by last year's stats. Heck, I'd probably be satisfied with a jump to 35%.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#213 » by wesleyt95 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:17 pm

Foye wrote:
wesleyt95 wrote:
Foye wrote:
This team is not going to make the playoffs this year.
I have no doubt about that in my mind.

Everything about this roster except Towns screams mediocre. And it won't change until Teague, Dieng and possibly Wiggins are gone.

No more Rose, no more Tyus. PG position got worse.
Culver will need some time to adapt to the pros.

Only possible surprise positive if given the chance I see is Naz Reid. I think he can play.

In short: This season will be a waste of Towns career.

Culver showed flashes of an elite handle, his development as a lead guard this year would be a huge plus for this team as well... if an Okogie Culver backcourt works we could slide Roco to the 3 and draft an athletic 4 with a high ceiling


Dont get me wrong. I have high hopes for Culver. I just don‘t think he will immediately be able to be a major contributor.
It is a development year for him, as well as the other rookies.

At the end of the year we will be sitting at 30-35 wins again with KAT starting to get pissed about not progressing in the wins column and not making the playoffs.

If he has a big role it will be because he earned it
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#214 » by Jedzz » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:55 pm

KGdaBom wrote:I don't see any excuses for Culver needed. IMO he played very well.

-1
This is what I'm talking about. Refusal to see how he started that game. People claiming all summer he was going to be a decent shooter for us. Others not trusting that claim. Comes right out and Airballs one. Welcome to the long list of untrustable shooters here my son. 4 turnovers gets complained about if it's anyone else. We had a few players dumping possessions and he was one of them. Was supposed to be a good defender for us. Haven't seen it yet. VERY WELL is just homer speak. We have people that want him to be the 5th starter immediately and have already written off the season as a developmental project year just because we have this one draft pick you guys want to send 2,800 minutes to in year 1.

Towns is no rookie. Wiggins is no rookie. Roco is no rookie. Teague sure isn't a rookie. This is Layman's 4th season and he started half of last season for Portland, a playoff team. Roco came from a playoff team. Teague, "always makes the playoffs". This is Vonleh's 6th season and he has 300 games and 170 starts to his name already. This is Napier's 6th season (28 years old) and he has 290 games in his belt already. I don't care if we can't win the finals. They should be putting the best foot forward to win as many as possible. That means someone with more experience that doesn't shoot airballs should start.

Name / $
Wiggins 27.5
Towns 27.2
Teague 19
Dieng 16
RoCO 11.3
Culver 5.8
Layman 3.5
Okogie 2.5
Vonleh 2
Napier 1.8
Jordan-Treveon Graham-Bell accounts for another 3.2
Wallace 1.5
KBD 1.4
Nowell 1.4
Reid .89

Culver is now our 6th highest paid player and our Top draft pick and because of that we are going to hand over free starting minutes to a rookie who shoots AIRBALLS at this level yet. I don't think we should repeat the Wiggins error. He can get plenty of minutes playing from the bench until he earns more. An MVP like Rose played off the bench here. It's OK for a ROOKIE to play off the bench here until he proves what level he is at and earns more.

Stop selling us on VERYY FINE game until we see a Very Fine game.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#215 » by Jedzz » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:01 am

wesleyt95 wrote:If he has a big role it will be because he earned it


How's that? Earned it where? He already is getting equal time with Okogie. How did he earn that? Others posting here want him nominated the 5th starter already. How did he earn that homer title?

Answer: He didn't earn any of that yet. A "big role" and starting can be two very different things. He can have a big role playing plenty of minutes off the bench. We have a massive hole left where Rose once was that he could fill while he "Earns" more.

Layman has experience and probably should be starting on this team. Napier knows the game well and between him and Teague we have PG covered. This allows the team to do right by our rookie hopeful and develop him correctly. With less pressure playing off the bench when the coach feels it is a good time for him to play. Not autostarting every game no matter the opponent or situation like Wiggins did.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#216 » by Klomp » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:06 am

Jedzz wrote:-1
This is what I'm talking about. Refusal to see how he started that game. People claiming all summer he was going to be a decent shooter for us. Others not trusting that claim. Comes right out and Airballs one. Welcome to the long list of untrustable shooters here my son.

Culver is now our 6th highest paid player and our Top draft pick and because of that we are going to hand over free starting minutes to a rookie who shoots AIRBALLS at this level yet.



Untrustable shooters, all of them.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#217 » by Mattya » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:19 am

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:-1
This is what I'm talking about. Refusal to see how he started that game. People claiming all summer he was going to be a decent shooter for us. Others not trusting that claim. Comes right out and Airballs one. Welcome to the long list of untrustable shooters here my son.

Culver is now our 6th highest paid player and our Top draft pick and because of that we are going to hand over free starting minutes to a rookie who shoots AIRBALLS at this level yet.



Untrustable shooters, all of them.

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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#218 » by WolfAddict » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:20 am

I honestly don't think Jedzz is saying he is an "untrustable" shooter because of 1 air ball, more that given we don't have a large enough sample size of him playing NBA, at this moment he should be considered untrusted/unknown. I agree FWIW. Culver needs to be developed properly, without rushing him into a starting lineup, and that is better achieved from the bench imo.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#219 » by Jedzz » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:31 am

Mattya wrote:
Klomp wrote:[youtube Bsao8sQ5m-U

Untrustable shooters, all of them.

[youtube ZSe80qSgXVA



You can just as well post all the airballs and turnovers and screwups from all the Wolves players of the past. No different. He can end up like all those nobodies and that's more likely than claiming he's the next Kobe, Steph, Kyrie like you are doing.

Did Kobe, Steph, Kyrie walk into their first game and first shot and airball it? Likely no. Someone just collected a bad shot from the careers of these great shooters who've drained shots at high clips for years. And here you guys are trying to make a point with that.


My only point is that Culver's game wasn't "Very Fine" as someone keeps telling me. It was a mixed bag that is fairly typical of rookies. What we did not see was glimpses of a one day allstar just yet. Yet some rookies have shown such during rookie seasons. I'll give him the season to start showing glimpses. I'm not in a hurry like some of you are to annoint him. I'll wait until he's ready to prove it.

This is classic wolves fans though. I had to put up with it for four years with Wiggins autostarting while we threw away seasons believing shear minute loads were going to coax an allstar out of his shell. They could have handled him differently and he could already be a much better basketball player. But this is Minnesota and we like losing. All these wizards of basketball knowledge ready to annoint each new draft pick each year and argue will any longterm fan that asks for patience.
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Re: Gameday: Minnesota at Phoenix (Preseason Game 1) 

Post#220 » by Mattya » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:35 am

Jedzz wrote:
Mattya wrote:

Untrustable shooters, all of them.



You can just as well post all the airballs and turnovers and screwups from all the Wolves players of the past. No different. He can end up like all those nobodies and that's more likely than claiming he's the next Kobe, Steph, Kyrie like you are doing.

Did Kobe, Steph, Kyrie walk into their first game and first shot and airball it? Likely no. Someone just collected a single bad shot from the careers of these great shooters who've drained shots at high clips for years. And here you are trying to make a point with that.


My only point is that Culver's game wasn't "Very Fine" as someone keeps telling me. It was a mixed bag that is fairly typical of rookies. What we did not see was glimpses of a one day allstar just yet. Yet some rookies have shown such during rookie seasons. I'll give him the season to start showing glimpses. I'm not in a hurry like some of you are to annoint him. I'll wait until he's ready.[/quote]

You wait until a player is ready and you miss out on learning opportunities for players like Kobe Bryant.

You are the one making such specific claim about how untrustworthy shooters are when they are rookies to airball their first shot in preseason. Maybe you should provide the research on that one instead blaming others for questioning your claims.

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