Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[Nick K]

I'm not saying he can't do those things, but don't pretend like he demands the ball on the block as he loves playing physical. He doesn't.

Respectfully norseman you are wrong on this one. Kat is a great post player AND a great long range shooter. Fabulous FT shooter and superb rebounder too.

Do you realize Kat put up numbers per game last year of 25 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts, He shot 49% from the field and 39% from 3. And 86% from the line. Those are close to his career numbers too. He is very consistent and getting better. How many guys put up those kind of numbers? Not many.

I put Kat is similar boat as Vucevic. Sure his offense is great, but if he’s your center then you will have below average defense which lowers the ceiling of what you can be as a team. I think his defense is more of a flaw on our team than Simmons’ shooting is on offense. You can scheme around your player’s offensive weaknesses to find ways to get the ball in the hoop but you can’t scheme around having bad defensive players to prevent the other team from doing so.

I guess by this logic Kat must be a bad contract too right?

Not a very strong argument. Kat is an improving defender and defense is more a team thing than anything.

[VeritasTri]

I think we need to stop saying “Simmons wins you games” without some qualifications. Personally, I dislike it when people assign positive or negative value to an individual for a team’s results (think “Towns must suck because his sucky team loses”), but I’ll play along.

Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season.

Worse, Simmons certainly LOST them that last playoff game, despite Embiid and a very good Tobias Harris. But we are care about future games, and there is no coach on the league that didn’t see Simmons get exposed. I do not think he wins you playoff games, and I think we will see him fouled regularly in crunch time in regular season games too, which will hurt a team’s chance to win.

"lets stop doing something without qualifying it"

then...

*Does exactly what he says people shouldnt do*

How has Embiid done without Simmons? 11-11. In the East. In the regular season. What an amazing point you made there, bravo.

Now you cant attribute wins to an individual (at least not to SImmons) but you definitely can attribute losses. Great logic and consistency, really winning me over with your 200 IQ hypocritical takes.

Great, more of what you think without any qualifications. Nope, cant help you win in the playoffs, his nearly averaging a triple double on 64% in the first round probably hurt them team...because reasons I guess.

I will say it again, this place is an embarrassment.

[Nick K]

Final offer. Beasley+Beverly+McDaniels+3 1st..Sad to give up McDaniels. But Simmons is superstar level player even w/o jumps hot. And he's still 25 yrs old. There will be room for improvement. Dlo, ant, simmons, towns is a lethal big 4.

Despite what others will say about it, I bet Rosas' offer is probably pretty close to this. Way too much smoke to think we're not making a big offer, mostly consisting of future picks.

I'm not sure I do this though. I see Pat Bev as a neutral asset, but one I'd like to keep. I see Beasley as a positive asset, although depressed due to his jail time. And I love McDaniels.

I'd much rather do Beasley, Prince, Bolmaro, 2 FRPs, and 2 swaps. But I think Rosas is willing to offer everyone not named Towns, Russell, and Edwards. The extent of the Finch/Rosas love affair with McDaniels could be genuine, but it also could be an attempt to pump up his value.

It is highly unlikely pretty much certain they will not trade Kat, Dlo, Ant or McD. They are our future. If Simmons comes it will be with any of the rest we have and picks. If Philly doesn't like it we walk. We have the makings of a pretty good team now with almost 40 million in expirings at the end of the year.

Prince 15 mil
Beverly 14 mil
Okogie 4 mil
Layman 4 mil
----------------------$37,000,000 mil

If we like any of those guys we can resign them for less and still have plenty left to find a nice piece.

[shrink]

I think we need to stop saying “Simmons wins you games” without some qualifications. Personally, I dislike it when people assign positive or negative value to an individual for a team’s results (think “Towns must suck because his sucky team loses”), but I’ll play along.

Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season.

Worse, Simmons certainly LOST them that last playoff game, despite Embiid and a very good Tobias Harris. But we are care about future games, and there is no coach on the league that didn’t see Simmons get exposed. I do not think he wins you playoff games, and I think we will see him fouled regularly in crunch time in regular season games too, which will hurt a team’s chance to win.

"lets stop doing something without qualifying it"

then...

*Does exactly what he says people shouldnt do*.

Is English not your first language, or do you not understand the phrase, “but I’ll play along?”

[Macwolf527]

Final offer. Beasley+Beverly+McDaniels+3 1st..Sad to give up McDaniels. But Simmons is superstar level player even w/o jumps hot. And he's still 25 yrs old. There will be room for improvement. Dlo, ant, simmons, towns is a lethal big 4.

Despite what others will say about it, I bet Rosas' offer is probably pretty close to this. Way too much smoke to think we're not making a big offer, mostly consisting of future picks.

I'm not sure I do this though. I see Pat Bev as a neutral asset, but one I'd like to keep. I see Beasley as a positive asset, although depressed due to his jail time. And I love McDaniels.

I'd much rather do Beasley, Prince, Bolmaro, 2 FRPs, and 2 swaps. But I think Rosas is willing to offer everyone not named Towns, Russell, and Edwards. The extent of the Finch/Rosas love affair with McDaniels could be genuine, but it also could be an attempt to pump up his value.

It is highly unlikely pretty much certain they will not trade Kat, Dlo, Ant or McD. They are our future. If Simmons comes it will be with any of the rest we have and picks. If Philly doesn't like it we walk. We have the makings of a pretty good team now with almost 40 million in expirings at the end of the year.

Prince 15 mil
Beverly 14 mil
Okogie 4 mil
Layman 4 mil
----------------------$37,000,000 mil

If we like any of those guys we can resign them for less and still have plenty left to find a nice piece.

Those are some nice trade (filler) pieces in the right deal. I say we let the win/loss record dictate our moves. I think we can make some noise with the continuity we were able to maintain. To some degree, this teams game is still an unknown.

[VeritasTri]

I think we need to stop saying “Simmons wins you games” without some qualifications. Personally, I dislike it when people assign positive or negative value to an individual for a team’s results (think “Towns must suck because his sucky team loses”), but I’ll play along.

Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season.

Worse, Simmons certainly LOST them that last playoff game, despite Embiid and a very good Tobias Harris. But we are care about future games, and there is no coach on the league that didn’t see Simmons get exposed. I do not think he wins you playoff games, and I think we will see him fouled regularly in crunch time in regular season games too, which will hurt a team’s chance to win.

"lets stop doing something without qualifying it"

then...

*Does exactly what he says people shouldnt do*.

Is English not your first language, or do you not understand the phrase, “but I’ll play along?”

Saying "I'll play along" in the context of perpetuating a strawman that claims of Simmons winning you games hasnt been statistically and logically qualified would mean you accept their claims for the purpose of making another argument in the framework of their claims.

What purpose does "Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season." serve in that context? Especially when the only thing you try to use to substantiate your claim is a .500 team record without Embiid...the exact same win % Embiid has without Simmons. If anything you are making an argument that they equally impact winning, as the results for the team when either is missing is the same.

Maybe dont make stupid posts which dont make any sense or make a point and you wont have to question my ability to grasp English.

[Note30]

"lets stop doing something without qualifying it"

then...

*Does exactly what he says people shouldnt do*.

Is English not your first language, or do you not understand the phrase, “but I’ll play along?”

Saying "I'll play along" in the context of perpetuating a strawman that claims of Simmons winning you games hasnt been statistically and logically qualified would mean you accept their claims for the purpose of making another argument in the framework of their claims.

What purpose does "Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season." serve in that context? Especially when the only thing you try to use to substantiate your claim is a .500 team record without Embiid...the exact same win % Embiid has without Simmons. If anything you are making an argument that they equally impact winning, as the results for the team when either is missing is the same.

Maybe dont make stupid posts which dont make any sense or make a point and you wont have to question my ability to grasp English.

Dude at this point you either are Simmons or the biggest Simmons fan boy I've ever seen. I don't even think his mama likes him as much as you do. If he doesn't get traded here are you gonna go to the 6ers forum till he gets traded somewhere else?

[VeritasTri]

Dude at this point you either are Simmons or the biggest Simmons fan boy I've ever seen. I don't even think his mama likes him as much as you do. If he doesn't get traded here are you gonna go to the 6ers forum till he gets traded somewhere else?

It's not about Simmons, its about combating the brainlets here. Keep trying to create this false reality where I am the one arguing out of some irrational love and you are the ones providing solid analytical data, im sure some fellow morons will fall for it. Keep ignoring every piece of statistical data I present, keep pretending im not pointing out the clear flaws in your logic, and keep circling back to arguments I have already crushed and acting as if it never happened.

You keep doing you, good talk.

[VeritasTri]

LOL @ the Celtics signing Robert Williams. Dude has only taken *2* 3's in 3 seasons and made ZERO. Say goodbye to any spacing for Brown and Tatum, teams can just clog the lane now. If only they would have hired one of the geniuses from the wolves board, they could have brought Channing Frye out of retirement to deliver Boston a championship.

[shangrila]

I think we need to stop saying “Simmons wins you games” without some qualifications. Personally, I dislike it when people assign positive or negative value to an individual for a team’s results (think “Towns must suck because his sucky team loses”), but I’ll play along.

Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season.

Worse, Simmons certainly LOST them that last playoff game, despite Embiid and a very good Tobias Harris. But we are care about future games, and there is no coach on the league that didn’t see Simmons get exposed. I do not think he wins you playoff games, and I think we will see him fouled regularly in crunch time in regular season games too, which will hurt a team’s chance to win.

I'll be brutally honest, I think you don't like people saying "Simmons wins you games" because it's something positive about him that dispels the notion that he's a bad contract.

There's nothing else to back that up. Simmons has had a positive +/- ever since he stepped on the court. The Sixers have made the playoffs every single season he's suited up, with the lowest seed being a 6th seed alongside two 3rds and last years 1st. And it's not like he was playing on the Warriors; his first season the top 8 in minutes consisted of him, Embiid, Cov, Saric, Reddick and 30-odd games of Ilyasova, Bellineli and Jerryd Bayless. That's not a 3rd seed on paper.

I've never argued he was a perfect player nor do I have any problem whatsoever with people arguing against his faults. But when you start trying to dismiss his strengths without anything to back it up? Or when you (seemingly) purposefully omit information that runs counter to your point?

It's absurd. And it's getting to a point now where I'm embarrassed to call myself a Wolves fan around here.

[SO_MONEY]

I think we need to stop saying “Simmons wins you games” without some qualifications. Personally, I dislike it when people assign positive or negative value to an individual for a team’s results (think “Towns must suck because his sucky team loses”), but I’ll play along.

Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season.

Worse, Simmons certainly LOST them that last playoff game, despite Embiid and a very good Tobias Harris. But we are care about future games, and there is no coach on the league that didn’t see Simmons get exposed. I do not think he wins you playoff games, and I think we will see him fouled regularly in crunch time in regular season games too, which will hurt a team’s chance to win.

I'll be brutally honest, I think you don't like people saying "Simmons wins you games" because it's something positive about him that dispels the notion that he's a bad contract.

There's nothing else to back that up. Simmons has had a positive +/- ever since he stepped on the court. The Sixers have made the playoffs every single season he's suited up, with the lowest seed being a 6th seed alongside two 3rds and last years 1st. And it's not like he was playing on the Warriors; his first season the top 8 in minutes consisted of him, Embiid, Cov, Saric, Reddick and 30-odd games of Ilyasova, Bellineli and Jerryd Bayless. That's not a 3rd seed on paper.

I've never argued he was a perfect player nor do I have any problem whatsoever with people arguing against his faults. But when you start trying to dismiss his strengths without anything to back it up? Or when you (seemingly) purposefully omit information that runs counter to your point?

It's absurd. And it's getting to a point now where I'm embarrassed to call myself a Wolves fan around here.

Simmons winning games is a bit overplayed. Simmons helps win games... except for when he doesn't. Point being you probably can make empty proclamations about a lot of players. His help cost $35mil on average.

[Note30]

Dude at this point you either are Simmons or the biggest Simmons fan boy I've ever seen. I don't even think his mama likes him as much as you do. If he doesn't get traded here are you gonna go to the 6ers forum till he gets traded somewhere else?

It's not about Simmons, its about combating the brainlets here. Keep trying to create this false reality where I am the one arguing out of some irrational love and you are the ones providing solid analytical data, im sure some fellow morons will fall for it. Keep ignoring every piece of statistical data I present, keep pretending im not pointing out the clear flaws in your logic, and keep circling back to arguments I have already crushed and acting as if it never happened.

You keep doing you, good talk.

I responded to your post a while back and you didn't reply. Don't know if you missed it or just ignored it, but either way, it has all the refute for you.

There isn't really a narrative, ever since you showed up here the one thing you have consistently posted about is Simmons. I have yet to see a post from you on anything other than him maybe you have and I missed it, but most of the posts I see from you are defending him. Therefore you seem to be a fanboy of him.

[shangrila]

I think we need to stop saying “Simmons wins you games” without some qualifications. Personally, I dislike it when people assign positive or negative value to an individual for a team’s results (think “Towns must suck because his sucky team loses”), but I’ll play along.

Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season.

Worse, Simmons certainly LOST them that last playoff game, despite Embiid and a very good Tobias Harris. But we are care about future games, and there is no coach on the league that didn’t see Simmons get exposed. I do not think he wins you playoff games, and I think we will see him fouled regularly in crunch time in regular season games too, which will hurt a team’s chance to win.

I'll be brutally honest, I think you don't like people saying "Simmons wins you games" because it's something positive about him that dispels the notion that he's a bad contract.

There's nothing else to back that up. Simmons has had a positive +/- ever since he stepped on the court. The Sixers have made the playoffs every single season he's suited up, with the lowest seed being a 6th seed alongside two 3rds and last years 1st. And it's not like he was playing on the Warriors; his first season the top 8 in minutes consisted of him, Embiid, Cov, Saric, Reddick and 30-odd games of Ilyasova, Bellineli and Jerryd Bayless. That's not a 3rd seed on paper.

I've never argued he was a perfect player nor do I have any problem whatsoever with people arguing against his faults. But when you start trying to dismiss his strengths without anything to back it up? Or when you (seemingly) purposefully omit information that runs counter to your point?

It's absurd. And it's getting to a point now where I'm embarrassed to call myself a Wolves fan around here.

Simmons winning games is a bit overplayed.

It's a fact, as I pointed out. Don't know how you overplay a fact.

Simmons helps win games... except for when he doesn't.

Neat. Well since we can't even manage the former I don't think I'll worry about the latter right now.

Point being you probably can make empty proclamations about a lot of players.

Like Ben Simmons is a bad contract? That kind of thing?

If backing up my "proclamation" with facts is empty then you're in denial.

His help cost $35mil on average.

I swear, it's like you're expecting to have to pay his contract personally.

[VeritasTri]

I responded to your post a while back and you didn't reply. Don't know if you missed it or just ignored it, but either way, it has all the refute for you.

There isn't really a narrative, ever since you showed up here the one thing you have consistently posted about is Simmons. I have yet to see a post from you on anything other than him maybe you have and I missed it, but most of the posts I see from you are defending him. Therefore you seem to be a fanboy of him.

I get a lot of people responding to me, I try to reply but may have missed it. Or its possible I deemed it not worthy of a response, not sure.

The possibility of us trading for a multiple time all star in his prime is a pretty big topic in the offseason. It interests me more than kicking around the notion of re-signing Jmac or what vet minimum 15th man we should try to sign. I probably wouldnt be so interested in discussing it if I didnt have a flock of people sh*tting on the idea of us greatly improving our team because of their emotional and unfounded hatred of Simmons.

I find it hilarious im called a fanboy while multiple blind homers claim Jaden McDaniels is a more valuable piece than Ben Simmons and nobody bats an eye.

Sorry if I want to improve our team and see the absolutely golden opportunity sitting in front of us. Simmons is an amazing fit for our existing roster in terms of skillset, role, experience, and relationships with our existing core.

[Domejandro]

Continue here.