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Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#121 » by SO_MONEY » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:24 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:
Krapinsky wrote:
Respectfully, this is a lot of mental gymnastics you have going on here.


It really isn't.

In fact it isn't at all.

We know this happens, it happens all the time. This isn't exactly complex or out of the ordinary. Should we entertain the lessons of the past, this is likely the stalking horse bid if one exists.

I really don't care if you think I am wrong... You could however make that case differently.


Door 1. Believe the actual report.

Indiana, who has been shopping Brogdon according to reports, offered Brogdon and a first for Simmons as reported. Morey turned it down believing he could get a better deal elsewhere with eyes set on Damian Lillard who was reported to be unhappy in Portland. Brogdon has been shopped since the trade deadline so it's not surprising that Indiana would be quick to offer him for Simmons.

Door 2. Believe So Money.

The 76ers and Pacers reach a secret understanding to use one of the Pacers star players as a stalking horse to set Simmons' trade value by leaking a fake trade offer to a local media person covering the 76ers. The 76ers gleefully lie to the media person covering their team. To the contrary of actual reports, the Pacers are not interested in Simmons at all and prefer Brogdon. However, they don't mind having one of their best players -- who they prefer to keep over Simmons -- thrown in the rumor mill, thus lowering Brogdon's trade value for being shopped and potentially upsetting one of their star players. The 76ers do the Pacers this purported favor despite the fact that they both compete in the East and expect to be jockeying for playoff position next year. The Pacers hope that by helping an Eastern rival increase the trade value of their star player, in turn, their Eastern rival returns the favor some day whenever such an opportunity presents itself.


Yeah, I'll go with Door 1.


Door 2, isn't believing me it is understanding the world we live in. It doesn't mean I am right, but it is also doesn't mean it is not possible given how often it happens. Acting as if (or actually thinking) what I am talking about isn't the norm, would lead you down the road of being so resolute about something that is probably 50/50...and that is what you are doing. You could be grounded and concede this or continue to do what you are doing...but by doing so flaunt your aversion to accepting there are real possibilities that exist outside of just how you feel. I have nothing more constructive to offer.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#122 » by moonpie » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:14 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#123 » by IceManBK1 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:04 am

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Hou going with the youth movement...Beasley, McDaniels, Prince+Maxey to Hou. Wall, 2 1sts and 2nd to Philly. Simmons and maybe Eric Gordon to Min 8-)
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#124 » by SO_MONEY » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:17 am

IceManBK1 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Hou going with the youth movement...Beasley, McDaniels, Prince+Maxey to Hou. Wall, 2 1sts and 2nd to Philly. Simmons and maybe Eric Gordon to Min 8-)


Pardon?
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#125 » by IceManBK1 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:01 am

Min Out: Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Layman, Bolmaro, three 1sts and one 2nd
Min In: Simmons, DJ Augustin

Philly Out: Simmons, Maxey
Philly In: John Wall, Bolmaro, the three 1sts and one 2nd from Min

Hou Out: John Wall, DJ Augustin
Hou In: (might have to waive some players to accommodate incoming players) Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Maxey, Layman

Dlo/Augustin
Beverly/Okogie
Edwards/Wesley Mathews or Avery Bradley(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#126 » by gandlogo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:08 am

IceManBK1 wrote:Min Out: Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Layman, Bolmaro, three 1sts and one 2nd
Min In: Simmons, DJ Augustin

Philly Out: Simmons, Maxey
Philly In: John Wall, Bolmaro, the three 1sts and one 2nd from Min

Hou Out: John Wall, DJ Augustin
Hou In: (might have to waive some players to accommodate incoming players) Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Maxey, Layman

Dlo/Augustin
Beverly/Okogie
Edwards/Wesley Mathews or Avery Bradley(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid


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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#127 » by IceManBK1 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:39 am

https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2021/09/14/minnesota-timberwolves-3-potential-ben-simmons-trades-for-the-wolves/amp/2/

Beasley, McDaniels, Prince plus four 2st riders.. Yes or no? I'd do 1 top 3 protected and 3 lotto protected.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#128 » by Slim Tubby » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:41 am

IceManBK1 wrote:Min Out: Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Layman, Bolmaro, three 1sts and one 2nd
Min In: Simmons, DJ Augustin

Philly Out: Simmons, Maxey
Philly In: John Wall, Bolmaro, the three 1sts and one 2nd from Min

Hou Out: John Wall, DJ Augustin
Hou In: (might have to waive some players to accommodate incoming players) Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Maxey, Layman

Dlo/Augustin
Beverly/Okogie
Edwards/Wesley Mathews or Avery Bradley(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid

You, sir, are insane. Much like KG’s take, I like Ben’s value in this roster a great deal more than most. However, this is a massive overpay and destroys our depth.


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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#129 » by _AIJ_ » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:55 am

Dude should just stop making hypothetical trades
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#130 » by shangrila » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:29 am

_AIJ_ wrote:Dude should just stop making hypothetical trades

Its an addiction at this point.

We need to hold an intervention.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#131 » by King Malta » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:44 am

shangrila wrote:
_AIJ_ wrote:Dude should just stop making hypothetical trades

Its an addiction at this point.

We need to hold an intervention.


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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#132 » by Wolveswin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:04 am

IceManBK1 wrote:Min Out: Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Layman, Bolmaro, three 1sts and one 2nd
Min In: Simmons, DJ Augustin

Philly Out: Simmons, Maxey
Philly In: John Wall, Bolmaro, the three 1sts and one 2nd from Min

Hou Out: John Wall, DJ Augustin
Hou In: (might have to waive some players to accommodate incoming players) Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Maxey, Layman

Dlo/Augustin
Beverly/Okogie
Edwards/Wesley Mathews or Avery Bradley(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid

Yuck.

Way too good. Like way way too good for Rockets. Remove Beasley and McDaniels and still too much value for them.

76ers get screwed. Morey would have to ride a horse out of town after this trade.

You must have John Wall as positive value vs. the highly negative he actually is.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#133 » by Domejandro » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:31 pm

IceManBK1 wrote:Min Out: Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Layman, Bolmaro, three 1sts and one 2nd
Min In: Simmons, DJ Augustin

Philly Out: Simmons, Maxey
Philly In: John Wall, Bolmaro, the three 1sts and one 2nd from Min

Hou Out: John Wall, DJ Augustin
Hou In: (might have to waive some players to accommodate incoming players) Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Maxey, Layman

Dlo/Augustin
Beverly/Okogie
Edwards/Wesley Mathews or Avery Bradley(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid

John Wall is a MASSIVELY negative contract, I really do not get this trade, if I am being honest.

Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, Bolmaro, FOUR firsts, and a second is an insane amount for Ben Simmons. I say this as someone who is pretty staunchly pro-Simmons.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#134 » by Dewey » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:52 pm

Domejandro wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:Min Out: Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Layman, Bolmaro, three 1sts and one 2nd
Min In: Simmons, DJ Augustin

Philly Out: Simmons, Maxey
Philly In: John Wall, Bolmaro, the three 1sts and one 2nd from Min

Hou Out: John Wall, DJ Augustin
Hou In: (might have to waive some players to accommodate incoming players) Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Maxey, Layman

Dlo/Augustin
Beverly/Okogie
Edwards/Wesley Mathews or Avery Bradley(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid

John Wall is a MASSIVELY negative contract, I really do not get this trade, if I am being honest.

Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, Bolmaro, FOUR firsts, and a second is an insane amount for Ben Simmons. I say this as someone who is pretty staunchly pro-Simmons.

I'd like to get Simmons, but Beasley and (Prince or Beverly) + picks is where I'm at. If it flops and we're forced to blow it up, we'd have multiple assets to bring back plenty of picks. Like most, McD (and even Bolmaro) are the tougher calls.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#135 » by SO_MONEY » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:24 pm

Dewey wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:Min Out: Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Layman, Bolmaro, three 1sts and one 2nd
Min In: Simmons, DJ Augustin

Philly Out: Simmons, Maxey
Philly In: John Wall, Bolmaro, the three 1sts and one 2nd from Min

Hou Out: John Wall, DJ Augustin
Hou In: (might have to waive some players to accommodate incoming players) Beasley, McDaniels, Prince, Maxey, Layman

Dlo/Augustin
Beverly/Okogie
Edwards/Wesley Mathews or Avery Bradley(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid

John Wall is a MASSIVELY negative contract, I really do not get this trade, if I am being honest.

Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, Bolmaro, FOUR firsts, and a second is an insane amount for Ben Simmons. I say this as someone who is pretty staunchly pro-Simmons.

I'd like to get Simmons, but Beasley and (Prince or Beverly) + picks is where I'm at. If it flops and we're forced to blow it up, we'd have multiple assets to bring back plenty of picks. Like most, McD (and even Bolmaro) are the tougher calls.


This is the primary reason I think we avoid including McDaniels. Keeping McDaniels allows for a pivot to build around ANT. Reid is the player I think gets moved in addition to Beasley, filler and a pick or two, if it goes forward as he is due a contract next year anyways. A third team in need of a Center would give up real value for him that could be rerouted.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#136 » by Wolveswin » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:31 pm

SO_MONEY wrote:
Dewey wrote:
Domejandro wrote:John Wall is a MASSIVELY negative contract, I really do not get this trade, if I am being honest.

Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, Bolmaro, FOUR firsts, and a second is an insane amount for Ben Simmons. I say this as someone who is pretty staunchly pro-Simmons.

I'd like to get Simmons, but Beasley and (Prince or Beverly) + picks is where I'm at. If it flops and we're forced to blow it up, we'd have multiple assets to bring back plenty of picks. Like most, McD (and even Bolmaro) are the tougher calls.


This is the primary reason I think we avoid including McDaniels. Keeping McDaniels allows for a pivot to build around ANT. Reid is the player I think gets moved in addition to Beasley, filler and a pick or two, if it goes forward as he is due a contract next year anyways. A third team in need of a Center would give up real value for him that could be rerouted.

Here is one I posted earlier in thread, I like the idea of Reid instead of McDaniels.

To Rockets: Harris + Beverley + Reid

To 76ers: Beasley + Wall + Wood + Wolves 1sts

To Wolves: Simmons + 76ers Filler (big man?)

76ers get a guard — albeit resurrection project — who either pulls a Chris Paul or is expiring 2022 offseason when Dame or Beal might actually be available.

Embiid
Wood
Green
Beasley
Wall

Towns
Simmons
McDaniels
Edwards
Russell
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#137 » by minimus » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:36 pm

I dont believe in Wall resurrection. He does not have CP3 IQ to dominate without athleticism and without 3pt shot.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#138 » by KGdaBom » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:31 pm

minimus wrote:I dont believe in Wall resurrection. He does not have CP3 IQ to dominate without athleticism and without 3pt shot.

I remember when I first saw YouTubes on John Wall. I immediately thought #1 overall pick in the draft and possible HoFer if he had a healthy career. I think I was spot on. He hasn't had the healthy career unfortunately, but didn't he play well for the Rockets last year?
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#139 » by DeBouillon » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm

Long time reader, but have never posted. If Christian Wood is available in a multi-team with Wall and Simmons and others what about us getting Christian Wood? Maybe we could be involved and the price would be nowhere near as high for us getting Wood rather than Simmons? Houston and Philly can trade Harris and Wall to get out from under their contracts. Maybe we could be involved with young players and picks going to the Rockets.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#140 » by shrink » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:04 pm

minimus wrote:I dont believe in Wall resurrection. He does not have CP3 IQ to dominate without athleticism and without 3pt shot.

Right, and he may also be lazy. I heard a metric a while back that counted the distance that a player covered in a game. Wall came in last in the entire NBA. He doesn’t defend hard, and he also just stands around on offense if the ball isn’t in his hands. Paul is going to defend, and Paul is going to move off the ball.

That said, I was surprised when I saw Wall’s stats last year. I have a tendency to think a player is worse if the contract is bad, so I expected worse.

40 GM, 32.2 MPG, 20.6 PPG, 40.4 FG%, 31.7 3P%, 3.2 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.1 STL, 0.8 BPG

Now, I agree, it’s hard for me to see him as the feature piece in a PHI trade, and with a contract north of $40 mil a year, he is definitely one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Nobody should give up picks for him - they should be receiving picks for taking up all the extra salary he is overpaid by. But he could still slip in as a top 100 player.

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