Game 6: Magic at Timberwolves, 7 pm

[Merc_Porto]

This is the last season this **** can continue. If there aren't any definitive changes this season, blow it to shreds, not sure how we can do that tho. We're already so bad that blowing it to shreds means nothing.

I don’t know what another rebuild will do for us. How many small market teams who aren’t spending 30+ million above the tax are competitive for a title in a given year. Last year the suns got lucky as **** by staying healthy, playing injured teams, and getting a resurgence from CP3 that they will not likely see again. The wolves are unlikely to attract the free agents necessary to build a contender and we don’t scout as well as other teams. Rosas built a shooting team that with proper coaching learned to play defense. Our problem is that all our shooters are slumping at the same time except KAT. We should be feeding KAT for a dozen 3s a night or more in addition to a lot of interior shots, but for whatever reason KAT doesn’t want to. My question is what are the odds none of our shooters snap out of it in the next couple of weeks?

No, the Suns didn't get lucky, the Suns made a move, a big move. A move they needed to do it.
The Suns are relevant, we are not, in any way. So, I don't get where the hell that comparison comes from once again.

You on the other hand think that the solution for this team to be successful is staying healthy and getting over this shooting slump.
Nothing else I see.

What can I say to that?

[winforlose]

This is the last season this **** can continue. If there aren't any definitive changes this season, blow it to shreds, not sure how we can do that tho. We're already so bad that blowing it to shreds means nothing.

I don’t know what another rebuild will do for us. How many small market teams who aren’t spending 30+ million above the tax are competitive for a title in a given year. Last year the suns got lucky as **** by staying healthy, playing injured teams, and getting a resurgence from CP3 that they will not likely see again. The wolves are unlikely to attract the free agents necessary to build a contender and we don’t scout as well as other teams. Rosas built a shooting team that with proper coaching learned to play defense. Our problem is that all our shooters are slumping at the same time except KAT. We should be feeding KAT for a dozen 3s a night or more in addition to a lot of interior shots, but for whatever reason KAT doesn’t want to. My question is what are the odds none of our shooters snap out of it in the next couple of weeks?

No, the Suns didn't get lucky, the Suns made a move, a big move. A move they needed to do it.
The Suns are relevant, we are not, in any way. So, I don't get where the hell that comparison comes from once again.

You on the other hand think that the solution for this team to be successful is staying healthy and getting over this shooting slump.
Nothing else I see.

What can I say to that?

On the contrary, we need to make a move for size, focus on rebounding (boxing out especially,) get KAT to shoot more, get Ant to drive more, take Prince out of the rotation for Bolmaro, move MCD to backup 4 until his game corrects itself, move Nowell into the rotation for JMAC, and if all else fails then we mix up the rotation again and see what shakes out.

Please read this. It is fairly short and will help you to understand what I am seeing when I watch. https://www.canishoopus.com/2021/11/2/22759296/small-samples-bad-luck-dragged-down-wolves-shooting

[Wolf_Cry]

So to be clear Dlo shooting a career low this season is the new normal? So Beasley shooting a career low is the new normal. Jaden McDaniels struggles including a 20% drop in 3 point shooting is normal? So Karl not shooting enough is normal? I could go on and on. The defense looks better because the guys are more bought in. The shooting not showing up is a function of missing open shots. You can say that we are missing them because we are bad at shooting but I ask you to consider the history of the shooters. Is that really so unreasonable?

Therein lies the problem though. Even if they're all shooting below their career percentage- the fact still remains this team is full of extremely streaky shooters. Beas and DLo in particular will have 1 or 2 games where they go 6/10 from down time, followed by 5-6 games of just putrid shooting. Then the whole thing recycles itself.

If a team wants to compete for a play in (not even play offs) spot, they need consistency. Streaky shooters do have their places in the league and can be valuable....but mainly as a 6th man. It's the spot I envision for either DLo or Beasley as both are perfect for it.

Ultimately, as you said by the law of averages, this team should start shooting better, but the pattern of when still remains a big problem. I don't care if by the end of the season the team is shooting 40% total from 3 point land if that means they have 6-7 games where they shooting 20% and 1 or 2 games where they shoot 50%. Give me consistency.

I don’t follow. Beasley wasn’t that streaky before the suspension nor was Dlo at the end of the year. The whole reason that averages for a season work out is because they are averages. Shooting 10-15% below that benchmark is a huge drop off that should correct itself. But even accepting your premise, name one shooter who consistently shoots 50% from 3? We could take less 3s but then we are vulnerable to the shooting night of other teams. Again the consistency you seek is not quite possible in the modern NBA. Moreover, we are built for the long ball. We don’t have a ton of slasher type players and the ones we do want to pull up and jump shoot. Get Ant to attack and then we can see where we are at. Overall, I don’t see Dlo and Beasley having Okogie and Treveon Graham like seasons. I don’t think that is a reasonable prediction. Moreover, I do think we make at least one move for size which should help.

If this game taught me anything it is the importance of MCD staying in the game and especially Pat Beverly being available. Our defense and energy just thrive when our better players are out there.

You don't think they're streaky? This is Beasley's last 15 game of last year in terms of 3 point shooting:

1.) 1/5 -> 20%
2.) 3/10 -> 30%
3.) 3/12 -> 25%
4.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
5.) 2/4 -> 50%
6.) 3/9 -> 44%
7.) 6/10 -> 60%
8.) 6/9 -> 66.7%
9.) 5/8-> 62.5%
10.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
11.) 3/9 -> 33.3%
12.) 6/12 -> 50&
13.) 3/11 -> 27.3%
14.) 6/12 -> 50%
15.) 5/11 -> 45.5%

I would argue the games I selected are his "hot" games. His league average last year was 39%, almost 40%. I'm being a bit generous here and rounding the 38% as his average, as it they are close enough. If we divide the good games by the over all games counted, this comes out to a 53% consistency. Let's compare him to someone like Seth Curry. I know I know- Seth is one of the best shooters in the game like his brother. But Beasley and Curry offer the same thing- or supposedly the same thing, which is spot up 3 point shooting and very little elsewhere. This is Seth's last 15 games, including post season included where defenses are harder and there is more pressure.

1.) 3/5 60%
2.) 6/9 66.7%
3.) 7/12 58.3%
4.) 3/6 50%
5.) 2/5 40%
6.) 5/6 83.3%
7.) 5/9 55.6%
8.) 3/6 50%
9.) 0/4 0%
10.) 3/6 50%
11.) 1/4 25%
12.) 3/9 33.3%
13.) 4/5 80%
14.) 2/4 50%
15.) 2/4 50%

Seth shot 45% from last year. So if we do the same equation for consistency as we did for Beasley, he was over or hit his seasonal average 73.3% of the time. I'm not saying Beasley needs to get on Seth's level, but he needs to be way better at not being so streaky. And trust me- you don't want me see Dlo's consistency stat....

Getting back to my point- if you are having an off night, I think you need to shoot less or try something else. And if you don't have a dribble drive game or some sort of floater or in-between games- then well you are what you are: an inconsistent 3 point chucker who offers nothing else.

[winforlose]

Therein lies the problem though. Even if they're all shooting below their career percentage- the fact still remains this team is full of extremely streaky shooters. Beas and DLo in particular will have 1 or 2 games where they go 6/10 from down time, followed by 5-6 games of just putrid shooting. Then the whole thing recycles itself.

If a team wants to compete for a play in (not even play offs) spot, they need consistency. Streaky shooters do have their places in the league and can be valuable....but mainly as a 6th man. It's the spot I envision for either DLo or Beasley as both are perfect for it.

Ultimately, as you said by the law of averages, this team should start shooting better, but the pattern of when still remains a big problem. I don't care if by the end of the season the team is shooting 40% total from 3 point land if that means they have 6-7 games where they shooting 20% and 1 or 2 games where they shoot 50%. Give me consistency.

I don’t follow. Beasley wasn’t that streaky before the suspension nor was Dlo at the end of the year. The whole reason that averages for a season work out is because they are averages. Shooting 10-15% below that benchmark is a huge drop off that should correct itself. But even accepting your premise, name one shooter who consistently shoots 50% from 3? We could take less 3s but then we are vulnerable to the shooting night of other teams. Again the consistency you seek is not quite possible in the modern NBA. Moreover, we are built for the long ball. We don’t have a ton of slasher type players and the ones we do want to pull up and jump shoot. Get Ant to attack and then we can see where we are at. Overall, I don’t see Dlo and Beasley having Okogie and Treveon Graham like seasons. I don’t think that is a reasonable prediction. Moreover, I do think we make at least one move for size which should help.

If this game taught me anything it is the importance of MCD staying in the game and especially Pat Beverly being available. Our defense and energy just thrive when our better players are out there.

You don't think they're streaky? This is Beasley's last 15 game of last year in terms of 3 point shooting:

1.) 1/5 -> 20%
2.) 3/10 -> 30%
3.) 3/12 -> 25%
4.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
5.) 2/4 -> 50%
6.) 3/9 -> 44%
7.) 6/10 -> 60%
8.) 6/9 -> 66.7%
9.) 5/8-> 62.5%
10.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
11.) 3/9 -> 33.3%
12.) 6/12 -> 50&
13.) 3/11 -> 27.3%
14.) 6/12 -> 50%
15.) 5/11 -> 45.5%

I would argue the games I selected are his "hot" games. His league average last year was 39%, almost 40%. I'm being a bit generous here and rounding the 38% as his average, as it they are close enough. If we divide the good games by the over all games counted, this comes out to a 53% consistency. Let's compare him to someone like Seth Curry. I know I know- Seth is one of the best shooters in the game like his brother. But Beasley and Curry offer the same thing- or supposedly the same thing, which is spot up 3 point shooting and very little elsewhere. This is Seth's last 15 games, including post season included where defenses are harder and there is more pressure.

1.) 3/5 60%
2.) 6/9 66.7%
3.) 7/12 58.3%
4.) 3/6 50%
5.) 2/5 40%
6.) 5/6 83.3%
7.) 5/9 55.6%
8.) 3/6 50%
9.) 0/4 0%
10.) 3/6 50%
11.) 1/4 25%
12.) 3/9 33.3%
13.) 4/5 80%
14.) 2/4 50%
15.) 2/4 50%

Seth shot 45% from last year. So if we do the same equation for consistency as we did for Beasley, he was over or hit his seasonal average 73.3% of the time. I'm not saying Beasley needs to get on Seth's level, but he needs to be way better at not being so streaky. And trust me- you don't want me see Dlo's consistency stat....

Getting back to my point- if you are having an off night, I think you need to shoot less or try something else. And if you don't have a dribble drive game or some sort of floater or in-between games- then well you are what you are: an inconsistent 3 point chucker who offers nothing else.

So much is different in these situations it is hard to compare. Beasley did most of his shooting last season with KAT out and Ant yet to emerge. Philly had a lot more threats to cover including Embiid and Harris. Also Seth Curry seems to be a lower volume shooter than MB. Who knows what happens to his percentage if he is forced to share the load. It is also true that he blew up a bit on his current deal. I assure you his value will be at or above Beasley’s current level by the time he negotiates his next contract. In practice 39-40 percent isn’t bad for a sharpshooter. I do agree that he needs to be more than a 3 point shooter, which is why I am pleased to see improvements to his defense and passing. Beasley is a role player who is struggling to fulfill his role. He showed in the Denver game that he still has the ability, he just needs to be as you said more consistent. However, the same can be said for Ant, Dlo, Prince, MCD, ect… Find me 5 to 10 consistent 50% 3 point shooters or even 45% 3 point shooters and we can talk about how to acquire one.

[Wolf_Cry]

I don’t follow. Beasley wasn’t that streaky before the suspension nor was Dlo at the end of the year. The whole reason that averages for a season work out is because they are averages. Shooting 10-15% below that benchmark is a huge drop off that should correct itself. But even accepting your premise, name one shooter who consistently shoots 50% from 3? We could take less 3s but then we are vulnerable to the shooting night of other teams. Again the consistency you seek is not quite possible in the modern NBA. Moreover, we are built for the long ball. We don’t have a ton of slasher type players and the ones we do want to pull up and jump shoot. Get Ant to attack and then we can see where we are at. Overall, I don’t see Dlo and Beasley having Okogie and Treveon Graham like seasons. I don’t think that is a reasonable prediction. Moreover, I do think we make at least one move for size which should help.

If this game taught me anything it is the importance of MCD staying in the game and especially Pat Beverly being available. Our defense and energy just thrive when our better players are out there.

You don't think they're streaky? This is Beasley's last 15 game of last year in terms of 3 point shooting:

1.) 1/5 -> 20%
2.) 3/10 -> 30%
3.) 3/12 -> 25%
4.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
5.) 2/4 -> 50%
6.) 3/9 -> 44%
7.) 6/10 -> 60%
8.) 6/9 -> 66.7%
9.) 5/8-> 62.5%
10.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
11.) 3/9 -> 33.3%
12.) 6/12 -> 50&
13.) 3/11 -> 27.3%
14.) 6/12 -> 50%
15.) 5/11 -> 45.5%

I would argue the games I selected are his "hot" games. His league average last year was 39%, almost 40%. I'm being a bit generous here and rounding the 38% as his average, as it they are close enough. If we divide the good games by the over all games counted, this comes out to a 53% consistency. Let's compare him to someone like Seth Curry. I know I know- Seth is one of the best shooters in the game like his brother. But Beasley and Curry offer the same thing- or supposedly the same thing, which is spot up 3 point shooting and very little elsewhere. This is Seth's last 15 games, including post season included where defenses are harder and there is more pressure.

1.) 3/5 60%
2.) 6/9 66.7%
3.) 7/12 58.3%
4.) 3/6 50%
5.) 2/5 40%
6.) 5/6 83.3%
7.) 5/9 55.6%
8.) 3/6 50%
9.) 0/4 0%
10.) 3/6 50%
11.) 1/4 25%
12.) 3/9 33.3%
13.) 4/5 80%
14.) 2/4 50%
15.) 2/4 50%

Seth shot 45% from last year. So if we do the same equation for consistency as we did for Beasley, he was over or hit his seasonal average 73.3% of the time. I'm not saying Beasley needs to get on Seth's level, but he needs to be way better at not being so streaky. And trust me- you don't want me see Dlo's consistency stat....

Getting back to my point- if you are having an off night, I think you need to shoot less or try something else. And if you don't have a dribble drive game or some sort of floater or in-between games- then well you are what you are: an inconsistent 3 point chucker who offers nothing else.

So much is different in these situations it is hard to compare. Beasley did most of his shooting last season with KAT out and Ant yet to emerge. Philly had a lot more threats to cover including Embiid and Harris. Also Seth Curry seems to be a lower volume shooter than MB. Who knows what happens to his percentage if he is forced to share the load. It is also true that he blew up a bit on his current deal. I assure you his value will be at or above Beasley’s current level by the time he negotiates his next contract. In practice 39-40 percent isn’t bad for a sharpshooter. I do agree that he needs to be more than a 3 point shooter, which is why I am pleased to see improvements to his defense and passing. Beasley is a role player who is struggling to fulfill his role. He showed in the Denver game that he still has the ability, he just needs to be as you said more consistent. However, the same can be said for Ant, Dlo, Prince, MCD, ect… Find me 5 to 10 consistent 50% 3 point shooters or even 45% 3 point shooters and we can talk about how to acquire one.

No offense, but all I hear are excuses. He didn't have this or that. Nobody has it perfect in the NBA- and honestly the more excuses I hear for a guys it seems the truer the accusations. For example, I love KAt. Love the guy- he's the reason I still started watching Wolves game again after being bad for so long. But I always made excuses that he wasn't as good as Jokic or Embiid because he didn't have their supporting cast. Which is true in a sense, but what's even more true now is that he just isn't as good. It's just the truth. Just like Beasley, despite all the excuses you want to throw at him- he just isn't very good. He has his limitations.

And if you want to talk about shot attempts- that's what I'm getting at. Curry is one of the best 3 point shooters in the game, yet he takes LESS than Beasley. You know why? Because when he's not hot, he stops shooting the damn ball. It's hurting his team over all. Beasley chucking up 3 more misses after starting 1/5 isn't helping this team. He's literally trying to shoot himself out of slump in the middle of a game- and he just isn't good enough for that. The same can be said for DLO. They need to affect the game in different ways other than chucking up 3's and if they can't, this team is doomed. And it's looking that way honestly. Beas keeps talking about how he wants to guard the other teams best player because he wants to show he's a dog on defense, but I barely see the effort. DLo is at least a little more honest and has openly admitted he shouldn't be running PG.

It's not about acquiring consistent shooters. It's about building a consistent team. This team doesn't need to just be 3 point shooting- which it clearly is trying so hard to be. Like the joke says- we're a wanna-be Darryl Morey's James Harden-less Houston Rocket. It's embarrassing. There's other ways to score the ball. Other ways to play the game. It's Finch's job to get that through to his player, and it's just as well on the player to start getting that philosophy. If neither can't, so be it like I said. We're just going to continue to suck, and Gupta's gonna have some hard decisions in front of him very soon.

[KG_Wolves]

Unacceptable loss this team is full of gutless pigs who are injury prone.

I am ready to blow this **** up and start over.

Quitting already? You sound like the Timberwolves last night.

Blowing it up isn't quitting, and this team has lost to the likes of Pelicans and Magic at home in a week.

That far outweighs a win against a Bucks team missing 2 starters

[Slim Tubby]

One of the worst losses I can recall…the 4th Quarter was a thing of nightmares. It’s very hard to have any optimism with his squad.

Russell playing poorly and now injured yet again. McG playing like me after half a bottle of Jaegermeister. If only we had a stable PG the likes of Ricky Rubio….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[winforlose]

You don't think they're streaky? This is Beasley's last 15 game of last year in terms of 3 point shooting:

1.) 1/5 -> 20%
2.) 3/10 -> 30%
3.) 3/12 -> 25%
4.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
5.) 2/4 -> 50%
6.) 3/9 -> 44%
7.) 6/10 -> 60%
8.) 6/9 -> 66.7%
9.) 5/8-> 62.5%
10.) 5/13 -> 38.5%
11.) 3/9 -> 33.3%
12.) 6/12 -> 50&
13.) 3/11 -> 27.3%
14.) 6/12 -> 50%
15.) 5/11 -> 45.5%

I would argue the games I selected are his "hot" games. His league average last year was 39%, almost 40%. I'm being a bit generous here and rounding the 38% as his average, as it they are close enough. If we divide the good games by the over all games counted, this comes out to a 53% consistency. Let's compare him to someone like Seth Curry. I know I know- Seth is one of the best shooters in the game like his brother. But Beasley and Curry offer the same thing- or supposedly the same thing, which is spot up 3 point shooting and very little elsewhere. This is Seth's last 15 games, including post season included where defenses are harder and there is more pressure.

1.) 3/5 60%
2.) 6/9 66.7%
3.) 7/12 58.3%
4.) 3/6 50%
5.) 2/5 40%
6.) 5/6 83.3%
7.) 5/9 55.6%
8.) 3/6 50%
9.) 0/4 0%
10.) 3/6 50%
11.) 1/4 25%
12.) 3/9 33.3%
13.) 4/5 80%
14.) 2/4 50%
15.) 2/4 50%

Seth shot 45% from last year. So if we do the same equation for consistency as we did for Beasley, he was over or hit his seasonal average 73.3% of the time. I'm not saying Beasley needs to get on Seth's level, but he needs to be way better at not being so streaky. And trust me- you don't want me see Dlo's consistency stat....

Getting back to my point- if you are having an off night, I think you need to shoot less or try something else. And if you don't have a dribble drive game or some sort of floater or in-between games- then well you are what you are: an inconsistent 3 point chucker who offers nothing else.

So much is different in these situations it is hard to compare. Beasley did most of his shooting last season with KAT out and Ant yet to emerge. Philly had a lot more threats to cover including Embiid and Harris. Also Seth Curry seems to be a lower volume shooter than MB. Who knows what happens to his percentage if he is forced to share the load. It is also true that he blew up a bit on his current deal. I assure you his value will be at or above Beasley’s current level by the time he negotiates his next contract. In practice 39-40 percent isn’t bad for a sharpshooter. I do agree that he needs to be more than a 3 point shooter, which is why I am pleased to see improvements to his defense and passing. Beasley is a role player who is struggling to fulfill his role. He showed in the Denver game that he still has the ability, he just needs to be as you said more consistent. However, the same can be said for Ant, Dlo, Prince, MCD, ect… Find me 5 to 10 consistent 50% 3 point shooters or even 45% 3 point shooters and we can talk about how to acquire one.

No offense, but all I hear are excuses. He didn't have this or that. Nobody has it perfect in the NBA- and honestly the more excuses I hear for a guys it seems the truer the accusations. For example, I love KAt. Love the guy- he's the reason I still started watching Wolves game again after being bad for so long. But I always made excuses that he wasn't as good as Jokic or Embiid because he didn't have their supporting cast. Which is true in a sense, but what's even more true now is that he just isn't as good. It's just the truth. Just like Beasley, despite all the excuses you want to throw at him- he just isn't very good. He has his limitations.

And if you want to talk about shot attempts- that's what I'm getting at. Curry is one of the best 3 point shooters in the game, yet he takes LESS than Beasley. You know why? Because when he's not hot, he stops shooting the damn ball. It's hurting his team over all. Beasley chucking up 3 more misses after starting 1/5 isn't helping this team. He's literally trying to shoot himself out of slump in the middle of a game- and he just isn't good enough for that. The same can be said for DLO. They need to affect the game in different ways other than chucking up 3's and if they can't, this team is doomed. And it's looking that way honestly. Beas keeps talking about how he wants to guard the other teams best player because he wants to show he's a dog on defense, but I barely see the effort. DLo is at least a little more honest and has openly admitted he shouldn't be running PG.

It's not about acquiring consistent shooters. It's about building a consistent team. This team doesn't need to just be 3 point shooting- which it clearly is trying so hard to be. Like the joke says- we're a wanna-be Darryl Morey's James Harden-less Houston Rocket. It's embarrassing. There's other ways to score the ball. Other ways to play the game. It's Finch's job to get that through to his player, and it's just as well on the player to start getting that philosophy. If neither can't, so be it like I said. We're just going to continue to suck, and Gupta's gonna have some hard decisions in front of him very soon.

I am getting some mixed messages from you. On the one hand you basically criticize Beasley for not shooting as well as Curry, but on the other hand you praise Curry for not taking enough shots to win games despite being the superior shooter. When you have a lineup of Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, and Al Horford (a couple of years ago,) you don’t need a Seth Curry taking a lot of shots. The roster may have turned over a bit but the point remains that they have a lot of scoring players. Beasley shoots a lot because that’s what we need from him. If he makes 40% consistently then we win. I cannot stress this enough. In the Denver game when our big 3 had career worst games Beasley kept us alive with 6-10 3 point shooting. Our entire design is based around getting open and nailing 3s.

To your other point about other ways to score. I don’t know that you are being honest with yourself or me. We are one of the smallest teams in the league. Small teams have trouble offensive rebounding and getting a lot of put backs. We already score fairly well in the paint (I haven’t checked the standings in a while, but the points in the paint battles don’t seem that skewed.) The only other consist methods of scoring are mid range shooting (something that is less efficient and being slowly eliminated for a reason,) and points off of drives. Now I have been saying Ant needs to drive more, and KAT has proven himself off of the drive. Beyond those two it is hard to find efficient driving talent on this team. JMAC cannot finish well, Okogie is struggling to finish. V8 doesn’t so much drive as cut and get the timely pass when he catches it he sometimes finishes sometimes gets stripped. My point is we are built for the small ball long ball. Now I have been very vocal that I hate small ball. But telling Finch to play pocket aces when he is holding a pair of 9s doesn’t work. You play the hand your dealt. If you read the article above, we are getting open looks and guys who have decent numbers last season and for their careers are not hitting them. This is not an excuse this is the numbers and numbers don’t lie. So please tell me specifically what changes you would make to be more consistent?

[Wolf_Cry]

So much is different in these situations it is hard to compare. Beasley did most of his shooting last season with KAT out and Ant yet to emerge. Philly had a lot more threats to cover including Embiid and Harris. Also Seth Curry seems to be a lower volume shooter than MB. Who knows what happens to his percentage if he is forced to share the load. It is also true that he blew up a bit on his current deal. I assure you his value will be at or above Beasley’s current level by the time he negotiates his next contract. In practice 39-40 percent isn’t bad for a sharpshooter. I do agree that he needs to be more than a 3 point shooter, which is why I am pleased to see improvements to his defense and passing. Beasley is a role player who is struggling to fulfill his role. He showed in the Denver game that he still has the ability, he just needs to be as you said more consistent. However, the same can be said for Ant, Dlo, Prince, MCD, ect… Find me 5 to 10 consistent 50% 3 point shooters or even 45% 3 point shooters and we can talk about how to acquire one.

No offense, but all I hear are excuses. He didn't have this or that. Nobody has it perfect in the NBA- and honestly the more excuses I hear for a guys it seems the truer the accusations. For example, I love KAt. Love the guy- he's the reason I still started watching Wolves game again after being bad for so long. But I always made excuses that he wasn't as good as Jokic or Embiid because he didn't have their supporting cast. Which is true in a sense, but what's even more true now is that he just isn't as good. It's just the truth. Just like Beasley, despite all the excuses you want to throw at him- he just isn't very good. He has his limitations.

And if you want to talk about shot attempts- that's what I'm getting at. Curry is one of the best 3 point shooters in the game, yet he takes LESS than Beasley. You know why? Because when he's not hot, he stops shooting the damn ball. It's hurting his team over all. Beasley chucking up 3 more misses after starting 1/5 isn't helping this team. He's literally trying to shoot himself out of slump in the middle of a game- and he just isn't good enough for that. The same can be said for DLO. They need to affect the game in different ways other than chucking up 3's and if they can't, this team is doomed. And it's looking that way honestly. Beas keeps talking about how he wants to guard the other teams best player because he wants to show he's a dog on defense, but I barely see the effort. DLo is at least a little more honest and has openly admitted he shouldn't be running PG.

It's not about acquiring consistent shooters. It's about building a consistent team. This team doesn't need to just be 3 point shooting- which it clearly is trying so hard to be. Like the joke says- we're a wanna-be Darryl Morey's James Harden-less Houston Rocket. It's embarrassing. There's other ways to score the ball. Other ways to play the game. It's Finch's job to get that through to his player, and it's just as well on the player to start getting that philosophy. If neither can't, so be it like I said. We're just going to continue to suck, and Gupta's gonna have some hard decisions in front of him very soon.

I am getting some mixed messages from you. On the one hand you basically criticize Beasley for not shooting as well as Curry, but on the other hand you praise Curry for not taking enough shots to win games despite being the superior shooter. When you have a lineup of Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, and Al Horford (a couple of years ago,) you don’t need a Seth Curry taking a lot of shots. The roster may have turned over a bit but the point remains that they have a lot of scoring players. Beasley shoots a lot because that’s what we need from him. If he makes 40% consistently then we win. I cannot stress this enough. In the Denver game when our big 3 had career worst games Beasley kept us alive with 6-10 3 point shooting. Our entire design is based around getting open and nailing 3s.

To your other point about other ways to score. I don’t know that you are being honest with yourself or me. We are one of the smallest teams in the league. Small teams have trouble offensive rebounding and getting a lot of put backs. We already score fairly well in the paint (I haven’t checked the standings in a while, but the points in the paint battles don’t seem that skewed.) The only other consist methods of scoring are mid range shooting (something that is less efficient and being slowly eliminated for a reason,) and points off of drives. Now I have been saying Ant needs to drive more, and KAT has proven himself off of the drive. Beyond those two it is hard to find efficient driving talent on this team. JMAC cannot finish well, Okogie is struggling to finish. V8 doesn’t so much drive as cut and get the timely pass when he catches it he sometimes finishes sometimes gets stripped. My point is we are built for the small ball long ball. Now I have been very vocal that I hate small ball. But telling Finch to play pocket aces when he is holding a pair of 9s doesn’t work. You play the hand your dealt. If you read the article above, we are getting open looks and guys who have decent numbers last season and for their careers are not hitting them. This is not an excuse this is the numbers and numbers don’t lie. So please tell me specifically what changes you would make to be more consistent?

I'm saying Beasley needs to shoot less when he's not on a hot streak, and use Seth Curry as a good milestone for him to one day reach if he wants to be an important role player on our team. And I disagree- just because we don't have all those Philly players you mentioned, that doesn't mean Beas needs to chuck up more shots. It's that kind of basketball philosophy that contributes to the Wolves being a bottom dweller. A lot of these players need to learn when to shoot and when to pass.

As for other methods of scoring- there has to be a way. If anything, it's worth it to explore other options then chucking up 50-60 3's a game. Sure we're a small team, but that doesn't mean we're forced to play one style. Golden State's arguably just as small as us and they run a beautiful offense. Of course having Stephen Curry helps, but that's besides the point. We need to try and tweak this offense so it's more pliable when the 3 ball isn't dropping. If we truly have no offense other than that- well then Gupta needs to get to work right away. I'm not blaming him or Finch too much since this was Rosas' roster, but it's become increasingly clear it's not going to work.

I keep hearing the open look argument, but they're open for a reason. Teams don't fear us dropping 3's on them. It doesn't matter what your career numbers are if you aren't one of the great shooters. Taurean Prince is a career 36% 3 pt shooter- respectable. But if he's 1/5 for the night, there's a reason he's gonna have 3-4 more open shots. Again, it goes back to streakiness and have the hot hand. Gotta be more consistent.

What changes would I make specifically? Well if I had the answer to that I'd be a coach in the NBA. I can offer some suggestion though. For starter, stop using KAT in the high post so much. He's not Jokic. He's not as good. I don't mind running that play, but not as our bread and butter. KAT needs to either in the post trying to score, or outside the arc ready to shoot the 3. Second tweak I would make is to have more cutters when KAT or Ant gets the ball. I don't care if you can't make a lay up. Movement alone creates offense. It creates opportunities. No matter how sucky you are, teams still have to account for you if you're literally 3 ft from the basket. The 3rd thing I would change is more post up opportunities for DLo and Ant. Jim Pete keeps saying it every game, but before he got to MN, DLo was actually a really good post up guard. Why not give him a chance down there, especially when he's struggling shooting the 3 ball? Not just those two, but hell let's see what McDaniels has in the post. It might be a bad idea, who knows. If anything, it's just as bad as shooting 3 clips at a bad rate.

[winforlose]

No offense, but all I hear are excuses. He didn't have this or that. Nobody has it perfect in the NBA- and honestly the more excuses I hear for a guys it seems the truer the accusations. For example, I love KAt. Love the guy- he's the reason I still started watching Wolves game again after being bad for so long. But I always made excuses that he wasn't as good as Jokic or Embiid because he didn't have their supporting cast. Which is true in a sense, but what's even more true now is that he just isn't as good. It's just the truth. Just like Beasley, despite all the excuses you want to throw at him- he just isn't very good. He has his limitations.

And if you want to talk about shot attempts- that's what I'm getting at. Curry is one of the best 3 point shooters in the game, yet he takes LESS than Beasley. You know why? Because when he's not hot, he stops shooting the damn ball. It's hurting his team over all. Beasley chucking up 3 more misses after starting 1/5 isn't helping this team. He's literally trying to shoot himself out of slump in the middle of a game- and he just isn't good enough for that. The same can be said for DLO. They need to affect the game in different ways other than chucking up 3's and if they can't, this team is doomed. And it's looking that way honestly. Beas keeps talking about how he wants to guard the other teams best player because he wants to show he's a dog on defense, but I barely see the effort. DLo is at least a little more honest and has openly admitted he shouldn't be running PG.

It's not about acquiring consistent shooters. It's about building a consistent team. This team doesn't need to just be 3 point shooting- which it clearly is trying so hard to be. Like the joke says- we're a wanna-be Darryl Morey's James Harden-less Houston Rocket. It's embarrassing. There's other ways to score the ball. Other ways to play the game. It's Finch's job to get that through to his player, and it's just as well on the player to start getting that philosophy. If neither can't, so be it like I said. We're just going to continue to suck, and Gupta's gonna have some hard decisions in front of him very soon.

I am getting some mixed messages from you. On the one hand you basically criticize Beasley for not shooting as well as Curry, but on the other hand you praise Curry for not taking enough shots to win games despite being the superior shooter. When you have a lineup of Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, and Al Horford (a couple of years ago,) you don’t need a Seth Curry taking a lot of shots. The roster may have turned over a bit but the point remains that they have a lot of scoring players. Beasley shoots a lot because that’s what we need from him. If he makes 40% consistently then we win. I cannot stress this enough. In the Denver game when our big 3 had career worst games Beasley kept us alive with 6-10 3 point shooting. Our entire design is based around getting open and nailing 3s.

To your other point about other ways to score. I don’t know that you are being honest with yourself or me. We are one of the smallest teams in the league. Small teams have trouble offensive rebounding and getting a lot of put backs. We already score fairly well in the paint (I haven’t checked the standings in a while, but the points in the paint battles don’t seem that skewed.) The only other consist methods of scoring are mid range shooting (something that is less efficient and being slowly eliminated for a reason,) and points off of drives. Now I have been saying Ant needs to drive more, and KAT has proven himself off of the drive. Beyond those two it is hard to find efficient driving talent on this team. JMAC cannot finish well, Okogie is struggling to finish. V8 doesn’t so much drive as cut and get the timely pass when he catches it he sometimes finishes sometimes gets stripped. My point is we are built for the small ball long ball. Now I have been very vocal that I hate small ball. But telling Finch to play pocket aces when he is holding a pair of 9s doesn’t work. You play the hand your dealt. If you read the article above, we are getting open looks and guys who have decent numbers last season and for their careers are not hitting them. This is not an excuse this is the numbers and numbers don’t lie. So please tell me specifically what changes you would make to be more consistent?

I'm saying Beasley needs to shoot less when he's not on a hot streak, and use Seth Curry as a good milestone for him to one day reach if he wants to be an important role player on our team. And I disagree- just because we don't have all those Philly players you mentioned, that doesn't mean Beas needs to chuck up more shots. It's that kind of basketball philosophy that contributes to the Wolves being a bottom dweller. A lot of these players need to learn when to shoot and when to pass.

As for other methods of scoring- there has to be a way. If anything, it's worth it to explore other options then chucking up 50-60 3's a game. Sure we're a small team, but that doesn't mean we're forced to play one style. Golden State's arguably just as small as us and they run a beautiful offense. Of course having Stephen Curry helps, but that's besides the point. We need to try and tweak this offense so it's more pliable when the 3 ball isn't dropping. If we truly have no offense other than that- well then Gupta needs to get to work right away. I'm not blaming him or Finch too much since this was Rosas' roster, but it's become increasingly clear it's not going to work.

I keep hearing the open look argument, but they're open for a reason. Teams don't fear us dropping 3's on them. It doesn't matter what your career numbers are if you aren't one of the great shooters. Taurean Prince is a career 36% 3 pt shooter- respectable. But if he's 1/5 for the night, there's a reason he's gonna have 3-4 more open shots. Again, it goes back to streakiness and have the hot hand. Gotta be more consistent.

What changes would I make specifically? Well if I had the answer to that I'd be a coach in the NBA. I can offer some suggestion though. For starter, stop using KAT in the high post so much. He's not Jokic. He's not as good. I don't mind running that play, but not as our bread and butter. KAT needs to either in the post trying to score, or outside the arc ready to shoot the 3. Second tweak I would make is to have more cutters when KAT or Ant gets the ball. I don't care if you can't make a lay up. Movement alone creates offense. It creates opportunities. No matter how sucky you are, teams still have to account for you if you're literally 3 ft from the basket. The 3rd thing I would change is more post up opportunities for DLo and Ant. Jim Pete keeps saying it every game, but before he got to MN, DLo was actually a really good post up guard. Why not give him a chance down there, especially when he's struggling shooting the 3 ball? Not just those two, but hell let's see what McDaniels has in the post. It might be a bad idea, who knows. If anything, it's just as bad as shooting 3 clips at a bad rate.

I like this post. I don’t necessarily agree we with everything you said, but I like that you have specifics, had good ideas, and made this discussion more engaging. Thank you.


Getting to your specifics, I am a believer in feeding the hot hand, and if a player is going off give them the ball. I don’t necessarily subscribe to the inverse. Sometimes the right move is to feed the cold hand if for no other reason than to keep the defense honest. That said, I agree Beasley shooting 3 number 9 after missing 7 of 8 is not a great shot. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you get a night where Prince, or MCD, or Dlo, or really anyone other than KAT is feeling it, then by all means run everything to set them up. However, when everyone is struggling, you go back to the better shooters and try to get them going. I want to also state that KAT should be shooting a lot more (like 15-20 shots per game more some nights,) given his Uber efficiency this season. One or two bad games out of six not with standing he is shooting 50% from 3 and has things going for him no one else does.


I just read some interesting stuff on Hoopshype. Finch talked about playing less ISO as it has led to catastrophic results. I agree that off ball movement is critical and want to see more off ball screens especially to set up back door rollers like JO and V8 for lobs or easy drop off and slams. I also think the key for us is pace. We are better before the opposing D has a chance to set. Getting the ball up to Ant quickly and having him attack will get the best results. Running guard post plays scares me a bit with the way opposing teams have been guarding KAT. They use PFs to keep their centers down low and Dlo going up against bigs frightens me a bit. I still think the key to paint points is going to be in spacing the floor. Hitting the 3s force defenders to the perimeter which opens the lane for guys like Ant. But I do agree we need to find ways to take more shots in the paint.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Wtf was that 4th quarter? One of the most embarrassing losses in years.