WOJ: Wolves acquire Patrick Beverley for Juancho + Culver

[TheProdigy]

I've heard that there is interest in Simmons around the league, but not at Morey's crazy asking price.

Not according to Jon K.

was just listening to his podcast

https://talknorth.com/krawczynski/

19 mins in is the Simmons talk

"market is pretty dry for Ben Simmons, not a lot of teams banging on Philly's door"

the only thing Jon K said in regards to Philly's asking price (if that is the reason not many teams interested) was that it could get ugly if Simmons is on Philly in training camp, and price could drop

also said that Wolves would need 3rd team involved to facilitate a player that Philly would want, rather than what Wolves have to offer

Teams were inquiring about Simmons earlier in the offseason, but Morey's asking price was insane (i.e. 4 1st rd picks, 4 1st rd pick swaps, and a young player). Not surprising that teams aren't calling Philly anymore if that's the asking price.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/30/daryl-morey-asking-price-for-ben-simmons-is-massive/

[SO_MONEY]

Not according to Jon K.

was just listening to his podcast

https://talknorth.com/krawczynski/

19 mins in is the Simmons talk

"market is pretty dry for Ben Simmons, not a lot of teams banging on Philly's door"

the only thing Jon K said in regards to Philly's asking price (if that is the reason not many teams interested) was that it could get ugly if Simmons is on Philly in training camp, and price could drop

also said that Wolves would need 3rd team involved to facilitate a player that Philly would want, rather than what Wolves have to offer

Teams were inquiring about Simmons earlier in the offseason, but Morey's asking price was insane (i.e. 4 1st rd picks, 4 1st rd pick swaps, and a young player). Not surprising that teams aren't calling Philly anymore if that's the asking price.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/30/daryl-morey-asking-price-for-ben-simmons-is-massive/

Teams were inquiring, then again those rumors were probably built up by leaks from Philly, so I take them with a grain of salt.

If there were interest, he would be gone.

The most realistic interpretation of what is going on would be to conclude interest isn't high, that any deal would be a hard sell to the fan base as well as taking a reputational hit, so Morey would rather attach value to Simmons to get an upgrade and conceal this as much as he can. But what happens if he can't? It is getting to that point.

[King Malta]

I like the trade.

Beverley isn't what he used to be, but he's a good shooter and pretty handy defender, will slot in nicely as our back-up PG if he's hanging around. Also, like that we're bringing in a vet with an edge, he is indeed easy to hate when he plays against you but I'm happy to have his presence on our team.

Culver might work out at the Grizzlies, but he was never going to work out here. No point hanging on to a guy purely because of what might happen elsewhere, we couldn't even move him for a 2nd during the draft so clearly the rest of the league isn't that enamored either. Juancho had a pretty poor year and after the Olympics fiasco I doubt he wants to be here anymore

[Krapinsky]

Getting rid of Juancho and Culver is addition by subtraction.

Beverly ticks a few boxes for us. Great trade.

[TheProdigy]

was just listening to his podcast

https://talknorth.com/krawczynski/

19 mins in is the Simmons talk

"market is pretty dry for Ben Simmons, not a lot of teams banging on Philly's door"

the only thing Jon K said in regards to Philly's asking price (if that is the reason not many teams interested) was that it could get ugly if Simmons is on Philly in training camp, and price could drop

also said that Wolves would need 3rd team involved to facilitate a player that Philly would want, rather than what Wolves have to offer

Teams were inquiring about Simmons earlier in the offseason, but Morey's asking price was insane (i.e. 4 1st rd picks, 4 1st rd pick swaps, and a young player). Not surprising that teams aren't calling Philly anymore if that's the asking price.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/30/daryl-morey-asking-price-for-ben-simmons-is-massive/

Teams were inquiring, then again those rumors were probably built up by leaks from Philly, so I take them with a grain of salt.

If there were interest, he would be gone.

The most realistic interpretation of what is going on would be to conclude interest isn't high, that any deal would be a hard sell to the fan base as well as taking a reputational hit, so Morey would rather attach value to Simmons to get an upgrade and conceal this as much as he can. But what happens if he can't? It is getting to that point.

I agree with the part in bold. They're clearly waiting for one of the big names like Lillard or Beal to become available. The longer they wait and closer we come to the regular season, they lose leverage in a trade (assuming Simmons threatens holdout).

I don't agree with your original statements though that there is "virtually no interest in Simmons" or that his "value is pretty non-existent". That seems very unlikely for a player of Simmons' caliber.

It reminds me of when you're looking to buy a used car and you find one close to where you live but the price isn't listed. You call and the salesman gives you the price and it's way higher than blue book value and you know no one will buy it at that price. You get off the phone laughing and say to yourself well that stinks, that's the car I want but not at that price, I'll wait and call again when the car doesn't sell and the price comes down in a few days of weeks. That's basically where we find ourselves currently with Rosas being the buyer, and Morey being the unreasonable salesman.

[SO_MONEY]

Teams were inquiring about Simmons earlier in the offseason, but Morey's asking price was insane (i.e. 4 1st rd picks, 4 1st rd pick swaps, and a young player). Not surprising that teams aren't calling Philly anymore if that's the asking price.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/30/daryl-morey-asking-price-for-ben-simmons-is-massive/

Teams were inquiring, then again those rumors were probably built up by leaks from Philly, so I take them with a grain of salt.

If there were interest, he would be gone.

The most realistic interpretation of what is going on would be to conclude interest isn't high, that any deal would be a hard sell to the fan base as well as taking a reputational hit, so Morey would rather attach value to Simmons to get an upgrade and conceal this as much as he can. But what happens if he can't? It is getting to that point.

I agree with the part in bold. They're clearly waiting for one of the big names like Lillard or Beal to become available. The longer they wait and closer we come to the regular season, they lose leverage in a trade (assuming Simmons threatens holdout).

I don't agree with your original statements though that there is "virtually no interest in Simmons" or that his "value is pretty non-existent". That seems very unlikely for a player of Simmons' caliber.

It reminds me of when you're looking to buy a used car and you find one close to where you live but the price isn't listed. You call and the salesman gives you the price and it's way higher than blue book value and you know no one will buy it at that price. You get off the phone laughing and say to yourself well that stinks, that's the car I want but not at that price, I'll wait and call again when the car doesn't sell and the price comes down in a few days of weeks. That's basically where we find ourselves currently with Rosas being the buyer, and Morey being the unreasonable salesman.

Well there isn't interest according to Jon K. Maybe you are more dialed in than him?

[younggunsmn]

Setting aside the old Timberwolves trope of the GM re-acquiring his old players,

I guess its a good trade in the short term. This team desperately needs a veteran influence with a winning mindset.
Well we had Rubio but we had to trade him because he was eating into Russell's spotlight.
Adding one of those low-usage but high impact roleplayers is a good idea.
Because honestly the only other use for Culver and Juancho was using the stretch provision to give us some short term cap space.

I just don't know how much Beverly has left in the tank. He's had so many injuries over the years, has missed a lot of time.
He's not a shut down guy anymore, but that intensity and ability to organize his tearmmates will be valuable.
That a vet-laden team with Kawai and PG13 would dump him, along with Oturu, to add an overpaid mediocre player like Eric Bledsoe should give us pause.
Still, at the price we paid its worth the risk. Juancho was a bad contract and a bad player.

Culver still has potential, but we werent paying him 8.1 million next year and there werent going to be minutes here for him to turn it around. I think with his high BBIQ and defensive skillset he's going to have a long career in the league as a roleplayer. But he had no future here. Memphis is a good system for him to be in because he was completely miscast here as a 3+D wing. Grit N grind will suit him better. Utah also would have been a good landing spot for him.

We've had good defensive veterans around KAT before and nothing has clicked. Maybe this time will be different.
Now go out and find the PF or C version of Beverly.
Now we have zero PF's and 2 C's on our 15 man roster after trading away our fake PF.
Disastrous roster balance. It will take 2 or 3 more trades to clean this mess up.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Didn’t he just shut down Mitchell and Booker a couple months ago?

[younggunsmn]

Didn’t he just shut down Mitchell and Booker a couple months ago?

Mitchell went for 35 PPG on 44% shooting (hurting) and Booker for 25.5 on 37% shooting. So not exaclty.

[TheProdigy]

Teams were inquiring, then again those rumors were probably built up by leaks from Philly, so I take them with a grain of salt.

If there were interest, he would be gone.

The most realistic interpretation of what is going on would be to conclude interest isn't high, that any deal would be a hard sell to the fan base as well as taking a reputational hit, so Morey would rather attach value to Simmons to get an upgrade and conceal this as much as he can. But what happens if he can't? It is getting to that point.

I agree with the part in bold. They're clearly waiting for one of the big names like Lillard or Beal to become available. The longer they wait and closer we come to the regular season, they lose leverage in a trade (assuming Simmons threatens holdout).

I don't agree with your original statements though that there is "virtually no interest in Simmons" or that his "value is pretty non-existent". That seems very unlikely for a player of Simmons' caliber.

It reminds me of when you're looking to buy a used car and you find one close to where you live but the price isn't listed. You call and the salesman gives you the price and it's way higher than blue book value and you know no one will buy it at that price. You get off the phone laughing and say to yourself well that stinks, that's the car I want but not at that price, I'll wait and call again when the car doesn't sell and the price comes down in a few days of weeks. That's basically where we find ourselves currently with Rosas being the buyer, and Morey being the unreasonable salesman.

Well there isn't interest according to Jon K. Maybe you are more dialed in than him?

I'm not disagreeing with Jon K. He said there isn't much interest in Simmons right now. I said I'm not surprised that there isn't much interest if Morey is asking for 4 1st rd picks, 4 1st rd pick swaps, and a young prospect. There won't be much interest around the league if that's the starting point in negotiations. He's just not worth anywhere close to that so teams won't waste any of their time engaging further with Morey. It's borderline insulting.

[SO_MONEY]

I agree with the part in bold. They're clearly waiting for one of the big names like Lillard or Beal to become available. The longer they wait and closer we come to the regular season, they lose leverage in a trade (assuming Simmons threatens holdout).

I don't agree with your original statements though that there is "virtually no interest in Simmons" or that his "value is pretty non-existent". That seems very unlikely for a player of Simmons' caliber.

It reminds me of when you're looking to buy a used car and you find one close to where you live but the price isn't listed. You call and the salesman gives you the price and it's way higher than blue book value and you know no one will buy it at that price. You get off the phone laughing and say to yourself well that stinks, that's the car I want but not at that price, I'll wait and call again when the car doesn't sell and the price comes down in a few days of weeks. That's basically where we find ourselves currently with Rosas being the buyer, and Morey being the unreasonable salesman.

Well there isn't interest according to Jon K. Maybe you are more dialed in than him?

I'm not disagreeing with Jon K. He said there isn't much interest in Simmons right now. I said I'm not surprised that there isn't much interest if Morey is asking for 4 1st rd picks, 4 1st rd pick swaps, and a young prospect. There won't be much interest around the league if that's the starting point in negotiations. He's just not worth anywhere close to that so teams won't waste any of their time engaging further with Morey. It's borderline insulting.

I don't think Morey is legitimately asking for that much, and if he was he isn't now. I think for the most part the rumors are using teams who they didn't want to deal with to drive up price, but clearly it didn't work. Now he is hoping to save face because he overplayed his hand by adding assets to Simmons, but that might never be an option. I think it is obvious Simmons just doesn't have much value AND teams don't like his contract.

[Klomp]

Setting aside the old Timberwolves trope of the GM re-acquiring his old players,

It's kind of funny, isn't it?!

With the exception of Kahn, basically everyone since the first Garnett era has done this.

[King Malta]

Setting aside the old Timberwolves trope of the GM re-acquiring his old players,

It's kind of funny, isn't it?!

With the exception of Kahn, basically everyone since the first Garnett era has done this.

People tend to like bringing along individuals they trust and know they can work with, happens in most professional environments really.

We're not unique in that. I guess it probably stands out more here though because of the amount of front offices we've had come through and how often we've needed to mess with the roster given the lack of success.

[Domejandro]

Didn’t he just shut down Mitchell and Booker a couple months ago?

Patrick Beverly got torched so hard by Luka Doncic that he had to be benched, for what it is worth.

Patrick Beverly is a good player, I like him, but he is not an ideal defensive player to put against a non-Point Guard. Not saying that to disparage him, but I think he thrives in team defensive sets where he can pressure the opposing Point-Guard.

[Calinks]

The Ben Simmons has no trade value stuff is really overblown. Sure people may not be willing to pay the super high price but when Morey lowers it they will pay up. Also if Ben does start the season there, he can raise his value very quickly as teams realize they don't have what it takes and need a boost.

Remeber how people were saying we have to trade Butler right away or he will lose value? Didn't happen. The one thing going against Morey is that Philly fans are nuts and they could really derail Simmons and that would be an untenable situation. So there is some risk there but if that doesn't happen, Simmons value will still be high as soon as he is playing and putting up numbers again.

[King Malta]

The Ben Simmons has no trade value stuff is really overblown. Sure people may not be willing to pay the super high price but when Morey lowers it they will pay up. Also if Ben does start the season there, he can raise his value very quickly as teams realize they don't have what it takes and need a boost.

Remeber how people were saying we have to trade Butler right away or he will lose value? Didn't happen. The one thing going against Morey is that Philly fans are nuts and they could really derail Simmons and that would be an untenable situation. So there is some risk there but if that doesn't happen, Simmons value will still be high as soon as he is playing and putting up numbers again.

Simmons has plenty of value, just not the insane value being asked. Morey's just waiting for one of Beal/Lillard to ask out IMO. If a team met one of his crazy counter-offers then he'd take it, otherwise he's playing the waiting game hoping he can bring back one of those two.

From a Minnesota perspective (if you're one of the people that want him, like me), then it's basically all about waiting it out and hoping that Lillard and Beal decide they're happy to stay put. At that point, Minnesota has basically as good a position as anyone else on the market that would want him.

[King Malta]

Didn’t he just shut down Mitchell and Booker a couple months ago?

Patrick Beverly got torched so hard by Luka Doncic that he had to be benched, for what it is worth.

Patrick Beverly is a good player, I like him, but he is not an ideal defensive player to put against a non-Point Guard. Not saying that to disparage him, but I think he thrives in team defensive sets where he can pressure the opposing Point-Guard.

Oh yeah well, I would hope we don't try to chuck him onto guys like Luka

As you say, he's good enough at defending the opposition point guard, and offensively he's a low usage guy that shoots the 3 at a good clip, pretty much fits what we need from a back-up PG.

[Nick K]

I said I want more vets on this team that can play. Pat Bev is getting up there but he is still a rotation guy and he for sure brings intensity and on the floor leadership. I think that he can turn the heat up on DLO who is not a great defender but has shown that he can be solid (he had several solid defensive possessions last season).

I also think he can be good for the other guards like Ant, Beasley, Nowell. He can show them how you are supposed to defend and how to take that side of the ball seriously. He can be the adult in the room much like Rubio was last season. I hope we can bring in one more veteran guy in this vein, hopefully, a big.

As for Memphis, I like this deal for them too. They get rid of an aging player they don't really need at this point, they get two guys who can play right now and still have potential to be solid. Juancho has had flashes, he could put together a really good season next year, especially in a new setting. Culver's confidence has been shot but if he can ever get it together, he can be a pretty solid player. Optimal Culver may be something like 12 pts, 5 boards, and 3 dimes which would be a really good bench guy. HE still even has the potential to grow into a good starter.

I think it's a good low-risk gamble for Memphis.

I still can't shake the thought Culver ends up a good player.

[Nick K]

Did not expect this trade. I didn't like Beverly's cheap shot on Booker in the playoffs, but outside of that I've always liked him. We needed a tough guy and vet who's won.

Seeing bench as Bev, Beasley, Prince, Vando, and Reid with Nowell, Bolmoro, and Okogie getting some limited run unless another piece moved.

"I hated when he pushed CP3 from behind in the playoffs. If he punches Jimmy Butler, I can forgive him."

Especially if he punches Butler twice!

[Foye]

Another move that has potential to backfire largely. Nice Gersson.