Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[Godaddycurse]

Beasley can be a 6th man for them.. And prince is a starting sf on some teams.

hopefully not by choice. Man was terrible last year. Turner is worth alot more to Indy than Beasley. Beasley + McDaniels would be a closer offer. and they will probably still say no. they have way too much depth as is

Turner and Sabonis give up a ton of points in the paint, Turner doesn't have that much value, because the thing he is good at...he isn't actually good at it. And isn't a difference maker in this regard.

I suspect they would give up a helluva lot more points in the paint without Turner though. They had below average defenders in the other 4 positions. Trading away their only plus defender for beasley is not a recipe for success for them

[IceManBK1]

hopefully not by choice. Man was terrible last year. Turner is worth alot more to Indy than Beasley. Beasley + McDaniels would be a closer offer. and they will probably still say no. they have way too much depth as is

Turner and Sabonis give up a ton of points in the paint, Turner doesn't have that much value, because the thing he is good at...he isn't actually good at it. And isn't a difference maker in this regard.

I suspect they would give up a helluva lot more points in the paint without Turner though. They had below average defenders in the other 4 positions. Trading away their only plus defender for beasley is not a recipe for success for them

He was good at sf with the hawks.. He didn't play as well at the 4 with the nets and cavs. Maybe he's a 3. Not a 4.

[IceManBK1]

Hope Rosas can atleast ship Okogie+Layman to OKC for Derrick Favors. Might have to include a 2nd rder.

[Baseline81]

Hope Rosas can atleast ship Okogie+Layman to OKC for Derrick Favors. Might have to include a 2nd rder.

Why would the Wolves deal two expiring contracts (and possibly a second round pick) for Favors. The same Favors who has been on the decline and still has two years left on his contract. There's a reason Utah had to give up a protected first round pick in order to get rid of him.

Your trade ideas... I don't know what to say...

[minimus]

Trade Okogie, Layman, two 2nd round picks for Lu Dort. Resign Vando, offer Millsap 5.9mil contract.

KAT/Reid + Knight
Millsap/Vando/Prince
MCD/Prince/Dort
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright

Dort wont fix our defensive problems, but we would have an outstanding defensive unit on perimeter MCD-Dort-Beverly. Also Dort contract 4mil/2yrs makes him very valuable.

Watch on YouTube

[minimus]

Trade Okogie, Layman, two 2nd round picks for Keldon Johnson, Poeltl.

Resign Vando.

KAT/Reid/Poeltl + Knight
MCD/Vando/Prince
Johnson/Prince/Edwards
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright

Watch on YouTube

[SO_MONEY]

hopefully not by choice. Man was terrible last year. Turner is worth alot more to Indy than Beasley. Beasley + McDaniels would be a closer offer. and they will probably still say no. they have way too much depth as is

Turner and Sabonis give up a ton of points in the paint, Turner doesn't have that much value, because the thing he is good at...he isn't actually good at it. And isn't a difference maker in this regard.

I suspect they would give up a helluva lot more points in the paint without Turner though. They had below average defenders in the other 4 positions. Trading away their only plus defender for beasley is not a recipe for success for them

You can suspect that, maybe you are right, but Turner isn't a difference maker than is he?

[Godaddycurse]

Turner and Sabonis give up a ton of points in the paint, Turner doesn't have that much value, because the thing he is good at...he isn't actually good at it. And isn't a difference maker in this regard.

I suspect they would give up a helluva lot more points in the paint without Turner though. They had below average defenders in the other 4 positions. Trading away their only plus defender for beasley is not a recipe for success for them

You can suspect that, maybe you are right, but Turner isn't a difference maker than is he?

pacers with turner defensive rating was 111.6, without turner it was 115.6. id say he makes a big difference for their defense.

[BlacJacMac]

Turner and Sabonis give up a ton of points in the paint, Turner doesn't have that much value, because the thing he is good at...he isn't actually good at it. And isn't a difference maker in this regard.

I suspect they would give up a helluva lot more points in the paint without Turner though. They had below average defenders in the other 4 positions. Trading away their only plus defender for beasley is not a recipe for success for them

You can suspect that, maybe you are right, but Turner isn't a difference maker than is he?

Using last year's #s, opponents had a .515 eFG% when Turner was on the floor and a .541 eFG% when he was on the bench.

He had a ridiculous 8.8 BLK% last year - good for 11th all-time for a single season.

He also recovered 3.2 blocks per 100 possessions.

He was 4th in the league at contested 2PT shots at 11/game.

[jpatrick]

I suspect they would give up a helluva lot more points in the paint without Turner though. They had below average defenders in the other 4 positions. Trading away their only plus defender for beasley is not a recipe for success for them

You can suspect that, maybe you are right, but Turner isn't a difference maker than is he?

Using last year's #s, opponents had a .515 eFG% when Turner was on the floor and a .541 eFG% when he was on the bench.

He had a ridiculous 8.8 BLK% last year - good for 11th all-time for a single season.

He also recovered 3.2 blocks per 100 possessions.

He was 4th in the league at contested 2PT shots at 11/game.

I watched Indy basically zero last year. But I’ve heard multiple national commentators indicate he was in the running for defensive player of the year before his injury.

[SO_MONEY]

You can suspect that, maybe you are right, but Turner isn't a difference maker than is he?

Using last year's #s, opponents had a .515 eFG% when Turner was on the floor and a .541 eFG% when he was on the bench.

He had a ridiculous 8.8 BLK% last year - good for 11th all-time for a single season.

He also recovered 3.2 blocks per 100 possessions.

He was 4th in the league at contested 2PT shots at 11/game.

I watched Indy basically zero last year. But I’ve heard multiple national commentators indicate he was in the running for defensive player of the year before his injury.

And yet, he anchored a terrible interior defense...

[BlacJacMac]

Using last year's #s, opponents had a .515 eFG% when Turner was on the floor and a .541 eFG% when he was on the bench.

He had a ridiculous 8.8 BLK% last year - good for 11th all-time for a single season.

He also recovered 3.2 blocks per 100 possessions.

He was 4th in the league at contested 2PT shots at 11/game.

I watched Indy basically zero last year. But I’ve heard multiple national commentators indicate he was in the running for defensive player of the year before his injury.

And yet, he anchored a terrible interior defense...

Did he?

Or were they overall a terrible interior defense because of the ~15 games Turner missed?

For better or worse it appears that Indy's entire defensive scheme was overly reliant on Turner.

https://www.si.com/nba/pacers/news/pacers-afseth-analysis-major-limitations-defense-without-myles-turner

[SO_MONEY]

I watched Indy basically zero last year. But I’ve heard multiple national commentators indicate he was in the running for defensive player of the year before his injury.

And yet, he anchored a terrible interior defense...

Did he?

Or were they overall a terrible interior defense because of the ~15 games Turner missed?

For better or worse it appears that Indy's entire defensive scheme was overly reliant on Turner.

https://www.si.com/nba/pacers/news/pacers-afseth-analysis-major-limitations-defense-without-myles-turner

A team that finished below average with regards to defensive rating for the season the same team that gave up the most points in the paint has nothing to brag about even with Turner missing some time. If anything defensively it points to overachieving perimeter defense given how bad they were on the interior.

[Note30]

Trade Okogie, Layman, two 2nd round picks for Keldon Johnson, Poeltl.

Resign Vando.

KAT/Reid/Poeltl + Knight
MCD/Vando/Prince
Johnson/Prince/Edwards
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright

Watch on YouTube

Yeah the Spurs aren't just going to give us two guys in their starting lineup for scrubs and 2nd round picks

[BlacJacMac]

And yet, he anchored a terrible interior defense...

Did he?

Or were they overall a terrible interior defense because of the ~15 games Turner missed?

For better or worse it appears that Indy's entire defensive scheme was overly reliant on Turner.

https://www.si.com/nba/pacers/news/pacers-afseth-analysis-major-limitations-defense-without-myles-turner

A team that finished below average with regards to defensive rating for the season the same team that gave up the most points in the paint has nothing to brag about even with Turner missing some time. If anything defensively it points to overachieving perimeter defense given how bad they were on the interior.

I still think there is a good chance that Turner's missed games (and possibly a suspect scheme) tanked those numbers. In the previous year Indy was 18th in Defensive Points in the Paint. And the year before that they were all the way up to 4th.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-in-paint-per-game

[SO_MONEY]

Did he?

Or were they overall a terrible interior defense because of the ~15 games Turner missed?

For better or worse it appears that Indy's entire defensive scheme was overly reliant on Turner.

https://www.si.com/nba/pacers/news/pacers-afseth-analysis-major-limitations-defense-without-myles-turner

A team that finished below average with regards to defensive rating for the season the same team that gave up the most points in the paint has nothing to brag about even with Turner missing some time. If anything defensively it points to overachieving perimeter defense given how bad they were on the interior.

I still think there is a good chance that Turner's missed games (and possibly a suspect scheme) tanked those numbers. In the previous year Indy was 18th in Defensive Points in the Paint. And the year before that they were all the way up to 4th.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-in-paint-per-game

Could be, but I am not concerned with speculating if that is true or not, because I don't value maybes the same way as more absolutes.

[BlacJacMac]

A team that finished below average with regards to defensive rating for the season the same team that gave up the most points in the paint has nothing to brag about even with Turner missing some time. If anything defensively it points to overachieving perimeter defense given how bad they were on the interior.

I still think there is a good chance that Turner's missed games (and possibly a suspect scheme) tanked those numbers. In the previous year Indy was 18th in Defensive Points in the Paint. And the year before that they were all the way up to 4th.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-in-paint-per-game

Could be, but I am not concerned with speculating if that is true or not, because I don't value maybes the same way as more absolutes.

I think context is important.

And I'm not sure we have any absolutes here. I'd love to see what Indy's Points in the Paint numbers look like with and without Turner, but I have no idea how/where to find that.

[SO_MONEY]

I still think there is a good chance that Turner's missed games (and possibly a suspect scheme) tanked those numbers. In the previous year Indy was 18th in Defensive Points in the Paint. And the year before that they were all the way up to 4th.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-in-paint-per-game

Could be, but I am not concerned with speculating if that is true or not, because I don't value maybes the same way as more absolutes.

I think context is important.

And I'm not sure we have any absolutes here. I'd love to see what Indy's Points in the Paint numbers look like with and without Turner, but I have no idea how/where to find that.

"More absolutes"

As in I value players and would pay the premium if there were not questions or was more certainty.

[BlacJacMac]

Could be, but I am not concerned with speculating if that is true or not, because I don't value maybes the same way as more absolutes.

I think context is important.

And I'm not sure we have any absolutes here. I'd love to see what Indy's Points in the Paint numbers look like with and without Turner, but I have no idea how/where to find that.

"More absolutes"

As in I value players and would pay the premium if there were not questions or was more certainty.

And I'm not saying you're wrong -or that I'm right. But it seems like its a data point that should be easily quantifiable. You just need to have or know how to find the resources. It might require something like a synergy subscription to find out. I'm just not willing to accept insufficient data as an absolute because too many other indicators point to him being a really good (and possibly game changing) defender.

And I'm sure NBA teams know exactly what the answer is.

[SO_MONEY]

I think context is important.

And I'm not sure we have any absolutes here. I'd love to see what Indy's Points in the Paint numbers look like with and without Turner, but I have no idea how/where to find that.

"More absolutes"

As in I value players and would pay the premium if there were not questions or was more certainty.

And I'm not saying you're wrong -or that I'm right. But it seems like its a data point that should be easily quantifiable. You just need to have or know how to find the resources. It might require something like a synergy subscription to find out. I'm just not willing to accept insufficient data as an absolute because too many other indicators point to him being a really good (and possibly game changing) defender.

And I'm sure NBA teams know exactly what the answer is.

Considering the defensive rating is about a difference of 4pts with his on offs, that would rank 27th... and that assumes all 4pts were in the paint. So I think we can say definitively they were awful even with him on the court. That is my point. That brings into question his impact. Obviously, it is not exact given pace adjustment ect... But there is smoke.