2016 draft thread: Part 2

[Klomp]

I think Murray gets too much credit for his season. Yes, he is a very good shooter, but how much did he benefit from playing alongside Tyler Ulis? Quite a bit, I'd say.

Worth noting that Ulis was the first team All-American from Kentucky, not Murray. Hield was also first team, while Dunn was second team. Murray was on the third team.

[Takingbaconback]

It's a valid point, but Murray is also easily the worst physical prospect of the group. The least size and the least athleticism.

It's exactly that kind of thinking that made the Timberwolves pass up the lacking in size/explosiveness/quickness Stephen Curry.
Murray is already a better shooter than Dunn and had he stayed in college up to his senior year he would put up better numbers than Heild too.

That may be true for the specific case of Curry, but it doesn't always turn out that way. I think Murray has to be a Curry or Ray Allen type of shooter to be a great player. He's not going to be a great defender, he's not great at attacking the basket. Maybe he has some PG skills that he didn't show at Kentucky, but it's tough to draft him assuming that.

That's pretty ridiculous to say somebody has to be Curry/Allen type of shooter to be a great player. That sounds like something you tell a 5'6" person who is so disadvantaged, he needs a GOAT shot. Takes some guts to say that about anybody when Rubio is a great player in your mind.

Murray can flourish playing like Tony Parker with a good shot and control the tempo. He looks to be a natural, instinctive around the rim finisher and has very good basketball IQ

[Worm Guts]

It's exactly that kind of thinking that made the Timberwolves pass up the lacking in size/explosiveness/quickness Stephen Curry.
Murray is already a better shooter than Dunn and had he stayed in college up to his senior year he would put up better numbers than Heild too.

That may be true for the specific case of Curry, but it doesn't always turn out that way. I think Murray has to be a Curry or Ray Allen type of shooter to be a great player. He's not going to be a great defender, he's not great at attacking the basket. Maybe he has some PG skills that he didn't show at Kentucky, but it's tough to draft him assuming that.

That's pretty ridiculous to say somebody has to be Curry/Allen type of shooter to be a great player. That sounds like something you tell a 5'6" person who is so disadvantaged, he needs a GOAT shot. Takes some guts to say that about anybody when Rubio is a great player in your mind.

Murray can flourish playing like Tony Parker with a good shot and control the tempo. He looks to be a natural, instinctive around the rim finisher and has very good basketball IQ

He's nothing like Tony Parker. He's nowhere near as quick and hasn't proved he can play PG. He does have a good BBIQ and can move without the ball, but his biggest asset he's shown is the ability to shoot the ball.
Maybe he has the ability to play point and that changes things a bit, but he didn't show that at Kentucky.

[Neeva]

Murray as a freshmen scored the second most three pointers in NCAA history behind Curry, Timberwolves will regret passing him for Hield or Dunn....

[Neeva]

I think Murray gets too much credit for his season. Yes, he is a very good shooter, but how much did he benefit from playing alongside Tyler Ulis? Quite a bit, I'd say.

Worth noting that Ulis was the first team All-American from Kentucky, not Murray. Hield was also first team, while Dunn was second team. Murray was on the third team.

That's ridiculous, so DUnn and Hield don't get too much credit for their senior seasons?> If they were soo good and had so much potential, they would have been drafted as underclassmen.

[Klomp]

Honestly, if this was two years ago and we needed to make a home run pick, I probably would lean towards Murray. However, I think this franchise can't afford to strike out, and I think Dunn represents a safer option.

I know the common opinion is to take the best possible offensive option and hope Thibs can turn him into a good defender, but I have a feeling Thibs wants to build this team on good defense, and to do that he needs the players with the physical tools and the willingness to defend.

[Klomp]

That's ridiculous, so DUnn and Hield don't get too much credit for their senior seasons?> If they were soo good and had so much potential, they would have been drafted as underclassmen.

People develop at different rates. Just because they weren't child prodigies doesn't mean they'll be bad NBA players.

If Steph Curry was soo good and had so much potential, he would have been drafted as an underclassman...since he stayed in school, he'll probably be a garbage NBA player.

[Neeva]

That's ridiculous, so DUnn and Hield don't get too much credit for their senior seasons?> If they were soo good and had so much potential, they would have been drafted as underclassmen.

People develop at different rates. Just because they weren't child prodigies doesn't mean they'll be bad NBA players.

If Steph Curry was soo good and had so much potential, he would have been drafted as an underclassman...since he stayed in school, he'll probably be a garbage NBA player.

Umm underclassmen means not a senior. Curry got drafted after his junior year he skipped his senior year unlike Dunn and Hield.

My point being that Curry was good right off the bat 3 point shooting wise as a freshmen (best in ncaa history) Jamal Murray is second best in NCAA history for a freshmen.... Timberwolves big need is 3 point shooting.
Dunn and Hield weren't even starters on their teams at the same age ( dunn was a bench warmer)
If you want the timberwolves to have the better player in the long run, you will want them to take Jamal Murray.

[Sugarless]

If you want the timberwolves to have the best player in the long run, you will want them to take Jamal Murray.

You should probably try expressing that as an opinion, rather than a fact, which it isn't.

[shangrila]

Curry didn't lack quickness. What he lacked was size, since everyone thought he was a SG and had no instincts for playing the point. He proved that wrong.

I don't hate Murray but he does seem to lack athleticism, even against other college players. He'll need to learn how to get his shot off against better athletes which he's capable of given his IQ, but sadly it's no forgone conclusion either.

[cpfsf]

I think Draft Express sometimes changes their ratings to make a splash and get people to their site, but they just moved Chriss all the way up to #3 overall.

He's the ultimate boom or bust guy.

i initially was skeptical especially given this time of year when fans are looking for any rumor. but in the end, DX doesn't strike me as the ESPN of click bait articles and non worthy updates. i generally will listen to the person who goes against the grain. not just rehashing the same things over and over. now i'm seeing other sites as well as realgm posters (including myself) singing his praises

nbadraft just bumped chriss from #10 to #7
chad fraud ... err chad ford changed his from #9 to #4

[gopher wolf]

That's ridiculous, so DUnn and Hield don't get too much credit for their senior seasons?> If they were soo good and had so much potential, they would have been drafted as underclassmen.

People develop at different rates. Just because they weren't child prodigies doesn't mean they'll be bad NBA players.

If Steph Curry was soo good and had so much potential, he would have been drafted as an underclassman...since he stayed in school, he'll probably be a garbage NBA player.

Umm underclassmen means not a senior. Curry got drafted after his junior year he skipped his senior year unlike Dunn and Hield.

My point being that Curry was good right off the bat 3 point shooting wise as a freshmen (best in ncaa history) Jamal Murray is second best in NCAA history for a freshmen.... Timberwolves big need is 3 point shooting.
Dunn and Hield weren't even starters on their teams at the same age ( dunn was a bench warmer)
If you want the timberwolves to have the better player in the long run, you will want them to take Jamal Murray.

Underclassmen means freshman or sophomore. Upperclassmen means junior or senior.

[gopher wolf]

That's ridiculous, so DUnn and Hield don't get too much credit for their senior seasons?> If they were soo good and had so much potential, they would have been drafted as underclassmen.

People develop at different rates. Just because they weren't child prodigies doesn't mean they'll be bad NBA players.

Yep, when Tyus was going into his junior year of HS, ESPN had him #1 in the country for the 2014 class ahead of Okafor, Towns etc.

[jpatrick]

That's ridiculous, so DUnn and Hield don't get too much credit for their senior seasons?> If they were soo good and had so much potential, they would have been drafted as underclassmen.

People develop at different rates. Just because they weren't child prodigies doesn't mean they'll be bad NBA players.

Yep, when Tyus was going into his junior year of HS, ESPN had him #1 in the country for the 2014 class ahead of Okafor, Towns etc.

Tyus was rated the #1 college prospect at one time and he was a great college player. He was never thought of as a future high lottery pick though. College recruiting ranking and NBA draft rating are two different things.

And age matters ALOT when projecting players to the NBA. It's not the end all of projections, as there are exceptions we can all name, but when you don't dominate until you are an upperclassman, your chances of being an NBA star go way down.

I actually think Dunn might be an exception because he was injured his first two years and when he did get healthy, his numbers were really good.

[Steve_Holiday]

Honestly, if this was two years ago and we needed to make a home run pick, I probably would lean towards Murray. However, I think this franchise can't afford to strike out, and I think Dunn represents a safer option.

I know the common opinion is to take the best possible offensive option and hope Thibs can turn him into a good defender, but I have a feeling Thibs wants to build this team on good defense, and to do that he needs the players with the physical tools and the willingness to defend.

I believe the wolves are in a great position to take a risk with this pick. Drafting a bust with the five wouldn't change the long-term trajectory of the team much. When we drafted Williams and Johnson and Flynn it set us back years.

[Klomp]

Underclassmen means freshman or sophomore. Upperclassmen means junior or senior.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was meaning. His referring to Dunn as a senior threw me off since Dunn could've returned to Providence if he wanted to next season. He was a junior too.

[Klomp]

I actually think Dunn might be an exception because he was injured his first two years and when he did get healthy, his numbers were really good.

Exactly. He's not your normal kid who stayed in school because he wasn't good enough to be drafted. He was hurt his first two years. When he was healthy in 14-15 he was a projected lottery pick, but he is a high-character kid who stayed to get his diploma.

[NewWolvesOrder]

I actually think Dunn might be an exception because he was injured his first two years and when he did get healthy, his numbers were really good.

Exactly. He's not your normal kid who stayed in school because he wasn't good enough to be drafted. He was hurt his first two years. When he was healthy in 14-15 he was a projected lottery pick, but he is a high-character kid who stayed to get his diploma.

when you lock in onto player you pump him up like there's no tomorrow. You must work in PR field, should I say T-Wolves PR team?

[Krapinsky]

Klomp, are you just talking yourself into Dunn because you think based on the speculation that's been out there, that he's the most likely pick?

[Klomp]

I know I'm pretty much all alone with my take of Dunn over the others, just like I was basically alone about LaVine over Harris...