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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1001 » by andyhop » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:22 am

_AIJ_ wrote:
andyhop wrote:
Macwolf527 wrote:
I had the same thought. With Rosas preaching sustainable winning, it didn’t seem logical for Naz to miss out on minutes for development for a 31 year old who doesn’t fit your style of play or timeline.



Why would you believe what Rosas says though.

I mean I love Rubio but he doesn't at all fit into the system or age profile we have been told that the Wolves want and given the roster make up is certainly going to be taking minutes away from someones development.

No offense, this is a lane statement and you clearly have no idea what youre talking about


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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1002 » by BrandyMcRoyFoye » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:12 am

I always like to take a crack at an offseason minutes table. A couple of notes, GP/GS is really just an attempt at an over/under factoring injuries, G-League, and maintenance. No injuries should push the regulars over. Obviously, any significant injury should push them way under and minutes to their replacements skyrocket. I assume four 5-minute OT sessions and was too lazy to adjust for the shortened season (projections based on 82 games).

A couple of ideas are reinforced in this exercise that have already been widely speculated. A Culver/Okogie trade for a comparable big would make a lot of sense, and I think there's a good chance something like this happens. Without such a trade, or even with, it's clear that Edwards, Okogie, Culver will have to log a lot of their minutes defending the 3. Personally, I don't think this is a big issue in our scheme, but worth noting if you consider SG their "natural position" or best chance to develop. Clearly, we'll be losing out on some length with Culver and Okogie at the 3. That would be easier to swallow if you were getting the shooting, ballhandling, and quickness of a prototypical guard as a tradeoff. Also, if we don't add any more bigs, there's no other option but to give guys like Layman, Vanderbilt, and Reid significant opportunity. If everybody flops, a trade is absolutely mandatory.

Here's what I came up with. Very interested to know what people would change.

Rubio 36GS/70GP 29.4MPG (PG 2060 minutes)
McLaughlin -/32GP 12.7MPG (PG 406)
Russell 71/74GP 33.0MPG (PG-SG 1490/950)
Beasley 58/70GP 32.1MPG (SG-SF 2150/100)
Nowell -/10GP 10.0MPG (SG 100)
Culver 16/66GP 22.1MPG (SF-SG 1100/356)
Okogie 19/66GP 22.7MPG (SF-SG 1300/200)
Edwards 40/70GP 23.6MPG (SF-SG-PF 1300/200/150)
Layman 27/60GP 17.5MPG (PF-SF 950/100)
Vanderbilt 2/48GP 11.6MPG (PF-SF 500/56)
Hernangomez 55/70GP 26.9MPG (PF-C 1700/180)
McDaniels -/12GP 13.0MPG (PF 156)
Towns 70/70GP 33.6MPG (C-PF 2250/100)
Ed Davis 12/68GP 16.9MPG (C-PF 900/250)
Reid 4/50GP 15.5MPG (C-PF 626/150)
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1003 » by King Malta » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:13 am

jpatrick wrote:After listening to Dane Moore’s most recent podcast with Britt Robison, I’m not optimistic about the season. I didn’t realize quite how horrific Juancho’s defensive numbers are. He’s just not a good fit with KAT on that end.

I disagree with Robinson’s take on Rubio. I think he’ll unlock some of Russell’s off the ball capabilities, like he showed in Brooklyn. I also think/hope that Russell will be easier to hide on D off the ball.


Finally, they had some interesting advanced stats on Layman. Very small sample size but he was the best fit with KAT defensively BY FAR and and good defensively overall.

Based on that:

Rubio-(Russell)-JMac or Hagans
Russell-Beasley-(Culver)
Okogie-Culver-Edwards
Layman-Hernangomez-(Davis)
Towns-Davis-Reid

I really hope we find a way to trade a wing for a PF. Unless he’s much better out of the gate than I expect, Edwards minutes might really get squeezed, which wouldn’t be good for him or the team long term.


I'm not saying we're going to be good, but I gave up on Britt as far as letting his takes influence my feelings on the team a long time ago. The guy is painfully negative and seems to naturally gravitate to the gloomiest perspective possible in most conversations.

I tuned into Dane Moore's podcast after the news surrounding KG's interest in the team feeling pretty excited and keen to hear what Dane and Britt thought. Within the first 10 minutes Britt had suggested:

Glen Taylor was a racist.
Kevin Garnett can't get along with anyone.
Kevin Garnett would negatively assert himself over his front office.
The team is going to be moved in the next couple of years anyway.

The guy is a pretty good writer, his article's are engaging, but he's also absolutely exhausting.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1004 » by King Malta » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:17 am

I know I'm throwing back a couple of pages here, but I feel like people take the whole age and timeline discussion a little too literally at times.

Just because a team is young and has players it would like to develop doesn't mean that it doesn't require any vets or that vets that it brings in are taking away valuable development minutes from any player under the age of 25. Young players need guidance and every team needs leadership, regardless of what stage of the competitive cycle they are in.

Furthermore, young players shouldn't always just be gifted minutes, there's something to be said for having to earn those minutes or feeling the very real pressure of losing them if you don't continue to strive to improve. Having a guy like Ed Davis get minutes doesn't damage the future of Naz Reid, if Naz Reid is better than Ed then he'll push him aside and take those minutes. If Naz isn't good enough to outplay a 31 year old Ed Davis then that's a problem IMO.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1005 » by Domejandro » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:21 am

UnFadeable21 wrote:
Midw35t wrote:
UnFadeable21 wrote:If I’m the Timberwolves, I’m going two bigs full time.

The lakers did it all playoffs and they were routinely out-rebounding their opponents 20+ per game.

More rebounds = more ball control, more second chances, and less second chances for your opponents.


That is why I wanted Wiseman, as many did. Control boards on both ends and have an actual rim protector. Force the other teams issue. What are you going to do put Tucker on KAT and a 6'8 guy on Wiseman? Good luck.

Now we are emulating something that is in reversal after the failed experiment in Houston. And our construction seems worse, though KAT is in a league of his own for this type of system.



I hope Rosas learned watching his beloved Houston Rockets get thoroughly abused by the Lakers in the playoffs how laughable small ball game plan is and was.

Even the Nuggets using two bigs killed the Clippers small ball.

That really isn’t accurate, though. What allows Los Angeles that flexibility is that Anthony Davis is mobile enough to defend any small lineups. Even with that, the Lakers’ best lineups were with Anthony Davis at center, going “small” with LeBron James at Power-Forward.

Wiseman and Towns are both horrible lateral defenders, that would have been nightmarish.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1006 » by old school 34 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:21 am

King Malta wrote:
jpatrick wrote:After listening to Dane Moore’s most recent podcast with Britt Robison, I’m not optimistic about the season. I didn’t realize quite how horrific Juancho’s defensive numbers are. He’s just not a good fit with KAT on that end.

I disagree with Robinson’s take on Rubio. I think he’ll unlock some of Russell’s off the ball capabilities, like he showed in Brooklyn. I also think/hope that Russell will be easier to hide on D off the ball.


Finally, they had some interesting advanced stats on Layman. Very small sample size but he was the best fit with KAT defensively BY FAR and and good defensively overall.

Based on that:

Rubio-(Russell)-JMac or Hagans
Russell-Beasley-(Culver)
Okogie-Culver-Edwards
Layman-Hernangomez-(Davis)
Towns-Davis-Reid

I really hope we find a way to trade a wing for a PF. Unless he’s much better out of the gate than I expect, Edwards minutes might really get squeezed, which wouldn’t be good for him or the team long term.


I'm not saying we're going to be good, but I gave up on Britt as far as letting his takes influence my feelings on the team a long time ago. The guy is painfully negative and seems to naturally gravitate to the gloomiest perspective possible in most conversations.

I tuned into Dane Moore's podcast after the news surrounding KG's interest in the team feeling pretty excited and keen to hear what Dane and Britt though. Within the first 10 minutes Britt had suggested:

Glen Taylor was a racist.
Kevin Garnett can't get along with anyone.
Kevin Garnett would negatively assert himself over his front office.
The team is going to be moved in the next couple of years anyway.

The guy is a pretty good writer, his article's are engaging, but he's also absolutely exhausting.
Yeah, I just listened to the pod as well. I don't always agree with either of them, but I really enjoy the different perspectives. Britt has been covering the wolves for way too long, but be anything but bitter old grumpy guy

I will say...after listening though...feel even stronger that:

1. Rubio should come off bench

2. Beasley while be a really good basketball fit...may never progress where I was hoping (improving defensively)....which may lead back to a 6th man role for him again...eventually.

3. Doesn't need to still happen immediately, but say by trade deadline...still makes too much sense moving said wing of choice for a pf.

4. Agree with Britt...sign JMac!



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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1007 » by winforlose » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:31 am

So this might be the hardest rotation to build in all my years as a wolves fan. As some of you know from draft night, I am not big on Rubio. That said, if you start Rubio with Dlo you need to play Beasley at the 3. This puts Okogie on the bench and means there is no one who can guard the Curry/Harden/James superstars. Worse still, with an undersized four in JH or Layman rebounding will be a serious challenge. If you put Rubio on the 2nd unit your starting lineup is probably the same as last year give or take JH (Layman might get the nod.) However, this brings us to the Vanderbilt and Nowell questions. To develop either player requires minutes. If Rubio/Edwards is the focus of the second unit, and Culver is not traded then the only question is whether Vanderbilt gets the nod over Layman/JH. Assuming not your 2nd squad is Rubio/Edwards/Culver/Layman/Reid. Your bench depth is then JMAC/Nowell/McDaniels/Vanderbilt/Davis. Kinda wish we would have drafted Wiseman and played Twin Towers with KAT, but what’s done is done.

The key questions IMO are.

1. At what point does Edwards become a starter?
2. Is Edwards going to be used as a 3 and played alongside Beasley?
3. Have we given up on Nowell and Vanderbilt?
4. Can we stay healthy with a packed schedule and limited time to get things together? After all, it’s a short offseason/preseason with a very rusty team.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1008 » by KGdaBom » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:43 am

King Malta wrote:
jpatrick wrote:After listening to Dane Moore’s most recent podcast with Britt Robison, I’m not optimistic about the season. I didn’t realize quite how horrific Juancho’s defensive numbers are. He’s just not a good fit with KAT on that end.

I disagree with Robinson’s take on Rubio. I think he’ll unlock some of Russell’s off the ball capabilities, like he showed in Brooklyn. I also think/hope that Russell will be easier to hide on D off the ball.


Finally, they had some interesting advanced stats on Layman. Very small sample size but he was the best fit with KAT defensively BY FAR and and good defensively overall.

Based on that:

Rubio-(Russell)-JMac or Hagans
Russell-Beasley-(Culver)
Okogie-Culver-Edwards
Layman-Hernangomez-(Davis)
Towns-Davis-Reid

I really hope we find a way to trade a wing for a PF. Unless he’s much better out of the gate than I expect, Edwards minutes might really get squeezed, which wouldn’t be good for him or the team long term.


I'm not saying we're going to be good, but I gave up on Britt as far as letting his takes influence my feelings on the team a long time ago. The guy is painfully negative and seems to naturally gravitate to the gloomiest perspective possible in most conversations.

I tuned into Dane Moore's podcast after the news surrounding KG's interest in the team feeling pretty excited and keen to hear what Dane and Britt though. Within the first 10 minutes Britt had suggested:

Glen Taylor was a racist.
Kevin Garnett can't get along with anyone.
Kevin Garnett would negatively assert himself over his front office.
The team is going to be moved in the next couple of years anyway.

The guy is a pretty good writer, his article's are engaging, but he's also absolutely exhausting.

Why don't you just say it like it is. Robson is an ****. As if James Johnson is a better player than Rubio.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1009 » by King Malta » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:53 am

old school 34 wrote:
King Malta wrote:
jpatrick wrote:After listening to Dane Moore’s most recent podcast with Britt Robison, I’m not optimistic about the season. I didn’t realize quite how horrific Juancho’s defensive numbers are. He’s just not a good fit with KAT on that end.

I disagree with Robinson’s take on Rubio. I think he’ll unlock some of Russell’s off the ball capabilities, like he showed in Brooklyn. I also think/hope that Russell will be easier to hide on D off the ball.


Finally, they had some interesting advanced stats on Layman. Very small sample size but he was the best fit with KAT defensively BY FAR and and good defensively overall.

Based on that:

Rubio-(Russell)-JMac or Hagans
Russell-Beasley-(Culver)
Okogie-Culver-Edwards
Layman-Hernangomez-(Davis)
Towns-Davis-Reid

I really hope we find a way to trade a wing for a PF. Unless he’s much better out of the gate than I expect, Edwards minutes might really get squeezed, which wouldn’t be good for him or the team long term.


I'm not saying we're going to be good, but I gave up on Britt as far as letting his takes influence my feelings on the team a long time ago. The guy is painfully negative and seems to naturally gravitate to the gloomiest perspective possible in most conversations.

I tuned into Dane Moore's podcast after the news surrounding KG's interest in the team feeling pretty excited and keen to hear what Dane and Britt though. Within the first 10 minutes Britt had suggested:

Glen Taylor was a racist.
Kevin Garnett can't get along with anyone.
Kevin Garnett would negatively assert himself over his front office.
The team is going to be moved in the next couple of years anyway.

The guy is a pretty good writer, his article's are engaging, but he's also absolutely exhausting.
Yeah, I just listened to the pod as well. I don't always agree with either of them, but I really enjoy the different perspectives. Britt has been covering the wolves for way too long, but be anything but bitter old grumpy guy

I will say...after listening though...feel even stronger that:

1. Rubio should come off bench

2. Beasley while be a really good basketball fit...may never progress where I was hoping (improving defensively)....which may lead back to a 6th man role for him again...eventually.

3. Doesn't need to still happen immediately, but say by trade deadline...still makes too much sense moving said wing of choice for a pf.

4. Agree with Britt...sign JMac!



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Good way to be!

I enjoy the differing opinions too, I just find Britt always takes the most negative approach possible. I'm sure coveringg the Wolves as long as he has will do that to a person, but I need something to look forward to :lol:
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1010 » by old school 34 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:38 am

King Malta wrote:
old school 34 wrote:
King Malta wrote:
I'm not saying we're going to be good, but I gave up on Britt as far as letting his takes influence my feelings on the team a long time ago. The guy is painfully negative and seems to naturally gravitate to the gloomiest perspective possible in most conversations.

I tuned into Dane Moore's podcast after the news surrounding KG's interest in the team feeling pretty excited and keen to hear what Dane and Britt though. Within the first 10 minutes Britt had suggested:

Glen Taylor was a racist.
Kevin Garnett can't get along with anyone.
Kevin Garnett would negatively assert himself over his front office.
The team is going to be moved in the next couple of years anyway.

The guy is a pretty good writer, his article's are engaging, but he's also absolutely exhausting.
Yeah, I just listened to the pod as well. I don't always agree with either of them, but I really enjoy the different perspectives. Britt has been covering the wolves for way too long, but be anything but bitter old grumpy guy

I will say...after listening though...feel even stronger that:

1. Rubio should come off bench

2. Beasley while be a really good basketball fit...may never progress where I was hoping (improving defensively)....which may lead back to a 6th man role for him again...eventually.

3. Doesn't need to still happen immediately, but say by trade deadline...still makes too much sense moving said wing of choice for a pf.

4. Agree with Britt...sign JMac!



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Good way to be!

I enjoy the differing opinions too, I just find Britt always takes the most negative approach possible. I'm sure coveringg the Wolves as long as he has will do that to a person, but I need something to look forward to
100% agreed !

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1011 » by BrandyMcRoyFoye » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:52 am

winforlose wrote:The key questions IMO are.

1. At what point does Edwards become a starter?
2. Is Edwards going to be used as a 3 and played alongside Beasley?
3. Have we given up on Nowell and Vanderbilt?
4. Can we stay healthy with a packed schedule and limited time to get things together? After all, it’s a short offseason/preseason with a very rusty team.


1. I think a realistically optimistic timeframe might be mid-way? For me, it's at the point where he's coming off the bench and getting enough minutes to mix in with Towns and Russell. If he shows defensive intensity, attacks the rim, disciplined shot selection, he's ready. Basically everything we begged for from Wiggins. We're not winning a championship, probably not making the playoffs, send the kid in if he's playing the right way and embraces the role he's going to need to play next to our stars.

2. Based on current roster construction, they sure as hell better be on board with Edwards as their long-term 3. I don't think they have any immediate plans to trade Russell, Rubio, or Beasley. You throw in Okogie, Culver, and even J-Mac and there is absolutely no vacancy for minutes at guard. Based on their comments about the 2 and 3 being interchangeable in this system, it would seem that they're on board with this. I kind of cringe at such comments when you're talking about playing Culver or Okogie there. You're sacrificing length and not making up for it with superior ballhandling, shooting, or playmaking. Edwards on the other hand, a 6'5" supposedly going on 6'6" athletic freak built like an s-house, you would think that shouldn't be much of a stretch. He might even have better luck defending 3s instead of chasing guards around. Given the contract to Beasley and the 1.1 overall selection, you would sure have to think that Beasley and Edwards will play together quite a bit once he's up and running. There's no way around it, Edwards absolutely needs to develop into an average wing defender in short order. Without the weight of having to carry an offense on his shoulders, that part of his game needs to take off or it almost certainly is another failed draft pick.

3. It sure looks like opportunity and minutes will be there for Vanderbilt at the 4 if a Culver/Okogie trade doesn't happen. I have no clue how Nowell sees the light of day on the current roster.

4. Towns, Russell, and especially Towns needs to have a healthy year. I think we can survive injuries to Rubio (with JMac), Beasley, Culver, Okogie. It would be extremely frustrating to see the 1.1 go down. We can't afford injuries at PF, but not high enough on any of the bigs not named Towns to feel like it would be the end of the world.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1012 » by minimus » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:04 am

BrandyMcRoyFoye wrote:...


Welcome on board! :wink:
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1013 » by Jedzz » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:16 am

BrandyMcRoyFoye wrote:
3. It sure looks like opportunity and minutes will be there for Vanderbilt at the 4 if a Culver/Okogie trade doesn't happen. I have no clue how Nowell sees the light of day on the current roster.


One way he could see minutes is if Culver/Okogie haven't figured out how to shoot in the past 8.5 months. Been a long time out of games. I'm not sure how he's still on the roster given the glut. Maybe someone still believes in him.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1014 » by raise_21_up » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:17 am

BrandyMcRoyFoye wrote:
winforlose wrote:The key questions IMO are.

1. At what point does Edwards become a starter?
2. Is Edwards going to be used as a 3 and played alongside Beasley?
3. Have we given up on Nowell and Vanderbilt?
4. Can we stay healthy with a packed schedule and limited time to get things together? After all, it’s a short offseason/preseason with a very rusty team.


1. I think a realistically optimistic timeframe might be mid-way? For me, it's at the point where he's coming off the bench and getting enough minutes to mix in with Towns and Russell. If he shows defensive intensity, attacks the rim, disciplined shot selection, he's ready. Basically everything we begged for from Wiggins. We're not winning a championship, probably not making the playoffs, send the kid in if he's playing the right way and embraces the role he's going to need to play next to our stars.

2. Based on current roster construction, they sure as hell better be on board with Edwards as their long-term 3. I don't think they have any immediate plans to trade Russell, Rubio, or Beasley. You throw in Okogie, Culver, and even J-Mac and there is absolutely no vacancy for minutes at guard. Based on their comments about the 2 and 3 being interchangeable in this system, it would seem that they're on board with this. I kind of cringe at such comments when you're talking about playing Culver or Okogie there. You're sacrificing length and not making up for it with superior ballhandling, shooting, or playmaking. Edwards on the other hand, a 6'5" supposedly going on 6'6" athletic freak built like an s-house, you would think that shouldn't be much of a stretch. He might even have better luck defending 3s instead of chasing guards around. Given the contract to Beasley and the 1.1 overall selection, you would sure have to think that Beasley and Edwards will play together quite a bit once he's up and running. There's no way around it, Edwards absolutely needs to develop into an average wing defender in short order. Without the weight of having to carry an offense on his shoulders, that part of his game needs to take off or it almost certainly is another failed draft pick.

3. It sure looks like opportunity and minutes will be there for Vanderbilt at the 4 if a Culver/Okogie trade doesn't happen. I have no clue how Nowell sees the light of day on the current roster.

4. Towns, Russell, and especially Towns needs to have a healthy year. I think we can survive injuries to Rubio (with JMac), Beasley, Culver, Okogie. It would be extremely frustrating to see the 1.1 go down. We can't afford injuries at PF, but not high enough on any of the bigs not named Towns to feel like it would be the end of the world.

Agree 100% with everything said here. I believe for Edwards to see the starting lineup, he's going to have to show it on the defensive end. My two favorite current players Beasley and Okogie have the fire and intensity that i wish the whole team had! Hopefully the energy of these two rubs off on Edwards, if it does the sky's the limit for Edwards.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1015 » by BrandyMcRoyFoye » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:01 am

raise_21_up wrote:I believe for Edwards to see the starting lineup, he's going to have to show it on the defensive end. My two favorite current players Beasley and Okogie have the fire and intensity that i wish the whole team had! Hopefully the energy of these two rubs off on Edwards, if it does the sky's the limit for Edwards.


Yep, for the Edwards pick to a be a success, defense and outside shooting needs to progress to the levels of an average NBA wing at worst. Leaves room to be an overall plus player based on the other elements in his game. I have to admit to not loving the pick on draft day based on these deficiencies, our current weaknesses, and the supposed lack of a motor/ love for basketball given our Andrew Wiggins experience. However, just hearing the guy's energy in the interview gave me enough hope to believe this can work out. I would like to hear the interviews dead fish Wiggins was giving post-draft or post-trade to the Wolves, but I'm fairly certain it didn't sound anything like Edwards. I probably let it go at the time and decided, that's okay, he's a can't miss talent, doesn't need to be the heart and soul of the team. Any level of give a damn / trace pulse levels, on a reasonable contract, and the guy could have been a very productive and valuable NBA pro. I think Edwards might have enough. There's reason to believe defense and shooting will come around in his new role.

To be fair, if Beasley is going to live up to his new contract, the defensive metrics also need to improve at that spot. I have to admit that although he didn't strike me as a defensive stopper in the games that I watched post-trade, I was surprised to learn that the numbers were as horrific as other posters have pointed out. The fact that he is a competitor that plays with an edge gives me hope that the defensive numbers will come around as the team gels.

And to be even more fair, the two guys at the top of our payroll also need to take some strides forward defensively if they have any interest in actually winning here.

Josh "Eruzione" Okogie. Makes me feel like Herb Brooks watching tape; "Why can't you just hit the net?" Just like Rubio's first stint. I can't imagine how good a 36% 3-point shooting Ricky would look in a Wolves uniform. Actually, I can because the one that hit 34% as a rookie was incredible.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1016 » by raise_21_up » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:38 am

BrandyMcRoyFoye wrote:
raise_21_up wrote:I believe for Edwards to see the starting lineup, he's going to have to show it on the defensive end. My two favorite current players Beasley and Okogie have the fire and intensity that i wish the whole team had! Hopefully the energy of these two rubs off on Edwards, if it does the sky's the limit for Edwards.


Yep, for the Edwards pick to a be a success, defense and outside shooting needs to progress to the levels of an average NBA wing at worst. Leaves room to be an overall plus player based on the other elements in his game. I have to admit to not loving the pick on draft day based on these deficiencies, our current weaknesses, and the supposed lack of a motor/ love for basketball given our Andrew Wiggins experience. However, just hearing the guy's energy in the interview gave me enough hope to believe this can work out. I would like to hear the interviews dead fish Wiggins was giving post-draft or post-trade to the Wolves, but I'm fairly certain it didn't sound anything like Edwards. I probably let it go at the time and decided, that's okay, he's a can't miss talent, doesn't need to be the heart and soul of the team. Any level of give a damn / trace pulse levels, on a reasonable contract, and the guy could have been a very productive and valuable NBA pro. I think Edwards might have enough. There's reason to believe defense and shooting will come around in his new role.

To be fair, if Beasley is going to live up to his new contract, the defensive metrics also need to improve at that spot. I have to admit that although he didn't strike me as a defensive stopper in the games that I watched post-trade, I was surprised to learn that the numbers were as horrific as other posters have pointed out. The fact that he is a competitor that plays with an edge gives me hope that the defensive numbers will come around as the team gels.

And to be even more fair, the two guys at the top of our payroll also need to take some strides forward defensively if they have any interest in actually winning here.

Josh "Eruzione" Okogie. Makes me feel like Herb Brooks watching tape; "Why can't you just hit the net?" Just like Rubio's first stint. I can't imagine how good a 36% 3-point shooting Ricky would look in a Wolves uniform. Actually, I can because the one that hit 34% as a rookie was incredible.


"Dead fish Wiggins" LOL.. As a timberwolves fan, I wanted Wiggins to succeed here SO bad and become that multi-year all-star like many envisioned when he came into the league. That wasn't the case, however I believe he will be a decent starter in this league for quite awhile. That said, getting rid of that contract and only giving what we did was a huge win. Looking at Wiggins vs Edwards, one big difference I see between them is energy like you said above. I couldn't tell you how many times I yelled at my tv saying: "throw it down," or "take it up strong" when Wiggins drove to the hoop. Wiggins never had that fire in him to throw down a mean dunk and stare the defender down after or even give the Herro snarl. Heck, I can't remember Wigs throwing down a "fancy" dunk on a breakaway! Edwards however does have that, I'm sure most on here have seen Edwards clip where he splits the double team at the top of the key drives to the hoop and throws and nasty dunk down on one of the opponents and celebrates a little after. I like seeing that emotion just like when Kat and Embiid got in their little scuffle I loved it, that's what this team needs and hopefully Edwards will bring some!

I agree here on Beasley's defense not being great to say the least. But after watching Wiggins again for half of last season, then acquiring this guy it was a night a day difference in my eyes. Just the energy and confidence he brought was huge I'd take Beasley over Wiggins even if they had the same contract. IIRC when we first brought Beasley in he said something along the lines of were competing for the playoffs even though we were pretty far back. I own two wolves' jerseys, I know sad, one being KG's and the other Okogie's, but Beasley's will probably be my next just due to the hustle and energy he brings. Hopefully his defense numbers approve along with the rest of the team, but I believe if Beasley can continue to shoot around 40% from 3, he at the very least will have a neutral contract considering some of the contracts given out this free agency.

I just watched Miracle on Ice like a week ago again great movie, and great reference to Okogie there haha. I too am excited for the return of Rubio, and we actually have some shooters this time around who should be able to hit the net! Should be really fun to watch, at least on one side of the floor.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1017 » by minimus » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:15 pm

raise_21_up wrote:...

BrandyMcRoyFoye wrote:...


Thank you, guys! A lot of powerful insights! Let me describe our backcourt transformation in this way:
We replaced two main perimeter players who happened to have a "cold fish" personality (Wiggins and Teague) with multiple players who show heart on the court (Beasley, Edwards, DLo, Okogie, Rubio)

P.S. It also does not seem a coincidence but both Teague and Wiggins almost stopped to dunk in MIN.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1018 » by Midw35t » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm

jpatrick wrote:After listening to Dane Moore’s most recent podcast with Britt Robison, I’m not optimistic about the season. I didn’t realize quite how horrific Juancho’s defensive numbers are. He’s just not a good fit with KAT on that end.

I disagree with Robinson’s take on Rubio. I think he’ll unlock some of Russell’s off the ball capabilities, like he showed in Brooklyn. I also think/hope that Russell will be easier to hide on D off the ball.

Finally, they had some interesting advanced stats on Layman. Very small sample size but he was the best fit with KAT defensively BY FAR and and good defensively overall.

Based on that:

Rubio-(Russell)-JMac or Hagans
Russell-Beasley-(Culver)
Okogie-Culver-Edwards
Layman-Hernangomez-(Davis)
Towns-Davis-Reid

I really hope we find a way to trade a wing for a PF. Unless he’s much better out of the gate than I expect, Edwards minutes might really get squeezed, which wouldn’t be good for him or the team long term.


I did not know that about the Juancho and Layman numbers, so thanks for bringing that up. You did mention small sample, so I have to wonder how small, as KAT missed quite a few games and from memory did not share the court with Layman often. So was it vs. mostly starters? I would assume it was mostly opposing benches as well with KAT being kept on the floor to thwart a complete collapse. That has to be taken into consideration.

Either way, Juancho and Layman should both be bench PF and SF. We have no true PF, and have failed to find one to compliment him for too many years now. KAT is an outstanding player but it is obvious that the team needs someone to protect the back end, because he has so far proven he cannot. Oh, also someone to help him fricking rebound.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1019 » by KGdaBom » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:51 pm

Midw35t wrote:
jpatrick wrote:After listening to Dane Moore’s most recent podcast with Britt Robison, I’m not optimistic about the season. I didn’t realize quite how horrific Juancho’s defensive numbers are. He’s just not a good fit with KAT on that end.

I disagree with Robinson’s take on Rubio. I think he’ll unlock some of Russell’s off the ball capabilities, like he showed in Brooklyn. I also think/hope that Russell will be easier to hide on D off the ball.

Finally, they had some interesting advanced stats on Layman. Very small sample size but he was the best fit with KAT defensively BY FAR and and good defensively overall.

Based on that:

Rubio-(Russell)-JMac or Hagans
Russell-Beasley-(Culver)
Okogie-Culver-Edwards
Layman-Hernangomez-(Davis)
Towns-Davis-Reid

I really hope we find a way to trade a wing for a PF. Unless he’s much better out of the gate than I expect, Edwards minutes might really get squeezed, which wouldn’t be good for him or the team long term.


I did not know that about the Juancho and Layman numbers, so thanks for bringing that up. You did mention small sample, so I have to wonder how small, as KAT missed quite a few games and from memory did not share the court with Layman often. So was it vs. mostly starters? I would assume it was mostly opposing benches as well with KAT being kept on the floor to thwart a complete collapse. That has to be taken into consideration.

Either way, Juancho and Layman should both be bench PF and SF. We have no true PF, and have failed to find one to compliment him for too many years now. KAT is an outstanding player but it is obvious that the team needs someone to protect the back end, because he has so far proven he cannot. Oh, also someone to help him fricking rebound.

Juancho not rebounding well is a flat out myth. Vanderbilt has always been a rebounding monster.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#1020 » by Midw35t » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:11 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Midw35t wrote:
jpatrick wrote:After listening to Dane Moore’s most recent podcast with Britt Robison, I’m not optimistic about the season. I didn’t realize quite how horrific Juancho’s defensive numbers are. He’s just not a good fit with KAT on that end.

I disagree with Robinson’s take on Rubio. I think he’ll unlock some of Russell’s off the ball capabilities, like he showed in Brooklyn. I also think/hope that Russell will be easier to hide on D off the ball.

Finally, they had some interesting advanced stats on Layman. Very small sample size but he was the best fit with KAT defensively BY FAR and and good defensively overall.

Based on that:

Rubio-(Russell)-JMac or Hagans
Russell-Beasley-(Culver)
Okogie-Culver-Edwards
Layman-Hernangomez-(Davis)
Towns-Davis-Reid

I really hope we find a way to trade a wing for a PF. Unless he’s much better out of the gate than I expect, Edwards minutes might really get squeezed, which wouldn’t be good for him or the team long term.


I did not know that about the Juancho and Layman numbers, so thanks for bringing that up. You did mention small sample, so I have to wonder how small, as KAT missed quite a few games and from memory did not share the court with Layman often. So was it vs. mostly starters? I would assume it was mostly opposing benches as well with KAT being kept on the floor to thwart a complete collapse. That has to be taken into consideration.

Either way, Juancho and Layman should both be bench PF and SF. We have no true PF, and have failed to find one to compliment him for too many years now. KAT is an outstanding player but it is obvious that the team needs someone to protect the back end, because he has so far proven he cannot. Oh, also someone to help him fricking rebound.

Juancho not rebounding well is a flat out myth. Vanderbilt has always been a rebounding monster.


Okay, we will see on Juancho. Vanderbilt is whatever at this point as he cannot shoot at all.

Honest question:

Do you think that we currently have anyone that really should be our starting PF? Or any team hunting for the playoffs?

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