Trade Talk (Part Four)

[minimus]

Has Isaac been talked about in this thread?

Despite his injury and injury history, his defense is ideal next to Wolves. And if you believe some reports, Wolves are really planning for future and not all-in on 2020/21 season.

Bulls Give: LaVine + #4
Bulls Get: #1 Overall + J. Johnson
Bulls Reasoning: if they see Edwards or Ball as difference maker worth trading up at cost of LaVine. I also don’t think they are a team rather wanting Isaac being they have Markkanen (both who need new contracts). Bulls would also have a ton of expiring contracts and options (call up Warriors offering Johnson or bigger deal taking on Wiggins for Porter Jr.).

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: LaVine + Vanderbilt + #17
Magic Reasoning: they seem like a team fine with making 8th seed of playoffs and not wanting to tear it down. LaVine gives them more firepower and a fairly dangerous team in East.

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + #17 + J. Johnson + Vanderbilt
Wolves Get: #4 Overall + Isaac + Aminu
Wolves Reasoning: trade back to #4 for a player Rosas really likes anyway (Avdjia?). Isaac can mend all year with Wolves being deep at PF.
Towns
Hernangomez | Spellman | Aminu | Layman
Culver | #4?
Beasley | Okogie
Russell

I like it. I would not trade Vanderbilt as does not have much value for ORL, so I'd try to develop him next season. I still believe in this kid. Let Isaac recover, negotiate a team-friendly extension like GSW did with Steph Curry.

Bulls Give: LaVine + #4
Bulls Get: #1 Overall + J. Johnson + Evans

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: LaVine + Spellman + Nowell + #17

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + #17 + J. Johnson + Spellman + Nowell + Evans
Wolves Get: #4 Overall + Isaac + Aminu

Draft Hayes, Tillie.

Towns/Reid/Tillie
Hernangomez/Aminu/Vanderbilt + Isaac
Culver/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Russell
Russell/Hayes/JMac

[shrink]

If it is James Johnson and #17 for Victor Oladipo, I'd accept this trade in a heartbeat.

That is the issue, though, that is basically nothing. Really no strong incentive for Indiana to pull the trigger on that, even with Oladipo's really rough performances since coming back from his injury. I think the hold up would be Jarrett Culver, in all honesty.

Culver would thrive in indiana, we would regret this trade for years.

For the record, I wrote Johnson, #17 and Omari Spellman/#33.

I would not offer Culver. I think the chance that we would retain Oladipo on a good contract after one season is maybe 1-in-4.

[Wolveswin]

Has Isaac been talked about in this thread?

Despite his injury and injury history, his defense is ideal next to Wolves. And if you believe some reports, Wolves are really planning for future and not all-in on 2020/21 season.

Bulls Give: LaVine + #4
Bulls Get: #1 Overall + J. Johnson
Bulls Reasoning: if they see Edwards or Ball as difference maker worth trading up at cost of LaVine. I also don’t think they are a team rather wanting Isaac being they have Markkanen (both who need new contracts). Bulls would also have a ton of expiring contracts and options (call up Warriors offering Johnson or bigger deal taking on Wiggins for Porter Jr.).

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: LaVine + Vanderbilt + #17
Magic Reasoning: they seem like a team fine with making 8th seed of playoffs and not wanting to tear it down. LaVine gives them more firepower and a fairly dangerous team in East.

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + #17 + J. Johnson + Vanderbilt
Wolves Get: #4 Overall + Isaac + Aminu
Wolves Reasoning: trade back to #4 for a player Rosas really likes anyway (Avdjia?). Isaac can mend all year with Wolves being deep at PF.
Towns
Hernangomez | Spellman | Aminu | Layman
Culver | #4?
Beasley | Okogie
Russell

I like it. I would not trade Vanderbilt as does not have much value for ORL, so I'd try to develop him next season. I still believe in this kid. Let Isaac recover, negotiate a team-friendly extension like GSW did with Steph Curry.

Bulls Give: LaVine + #4
Bulls Get: #1 Overall + J. Johnson + Evans

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: LaVine + Spellman + Nowell + #17

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + #17 + J. Johnson + Spellman + Nowell + Evans
Wolves Get: #4 Overall + Isaac + Aminu

Draft Hayes, Tillie.

Towns/Reid/Tillie
Hernangomez/Aminu/Vanderbilt + Isaac
Culver/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Russell
Russell/Hayes/JMac

Another version for those who like Ball or Edwards and like keeping vet Johnson.

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman

Wolves Give: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman
Wolves Get: Isaac + Aminu

Wolves then draft Edwards or Ball, keep Johnson to start maybe? And he expires before Isaac needs to get paid and play.
Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Russell

OR

Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Russell | Okogie
Ball

[shrink]

Has Isaac been talked about in this thread?

Despite his injury and injury history, his defense is ideal next to Wolves.

Yes, we all love Isaac, and completely agree with you about his fit next to Towns.

I like the concept of your trade too. LaVine would fit great in Orlando (lots of people thought swapping LaVine and Gordon would help both ORL and CHI), so there is certainly Magic fan interest in LaVine. I think that fits their direction too - they lseem to be happy being the #7 seed in the East.

For me though, I am skeptical about Isaac’s trade value now that he has had this second major injury. The problem isn’t just missing a year .. it’s what do you pay him on his next contract? These are exactly the type of high risk situations where teams lock themselves longterm into a very bad deal, and there is always friction between the player and organization in contract negotiations.

By the way, since we are talking about the Magic and just talked about Oladipo, I should mention that the previous Magic regime faced a similar issue with Oladipo. As a third year player, Oladipo didn’t have the same injuries as Isaac, but he had been all over the board in his play. He showed flashes, but mostly he had been bad, ORL didn’t know if he was an MLE player, a max player, or what he was .. they knew Oladipo thought he was a max player. To avoid making that gamble, they traded him early to OKC, and he blew up. Now, it’s quite possible Isaac is just about to blow up too, but with this second injury and a chance to be significantly worse - expecting a big deal, right now I just don’t know if this is a gamble I’d be willing to take.

[shrink]

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman

This is more like the price I would want to pay, but a sign-and-trade has two issues.

1. Beasley is a good player, but when any player goes through free agency, he gets properly paid. Most will accept the highest available offer - so generally this makes them a neutral to slightly negative contract. This year the situation could be slightly different, with Covid shrinking free agent salaries, so we could see Beasley on a slightly positive contract, and a slightly positive trade asset.

2. Any team that trades for a sign-and-trade player immediately hard caps themselves for one year, meaning they can’t make any transaction that will put them $6 mil over the luxury threshold .. we call it “the apron.” Orlando is already sitting at $122 mil in payroll before they make any transactions (like sign their picks, use the MLE, etc). Maybe they’d still do it since they have a good top 6 players, but it would certainly be a consideration.

Interesting. I’d gamble on Isaac at the right price, and for me, with the injury and contract risk, I’d struggle to use the #1 on it, where I feel we need to hit. #17, Spellman, Beasley? I’m willing to gamble for upside with assets like those - Isaac or Oladipo. MIN is not a great destination for free agents, so we need access to the chance of bringing in higher end talent.

I’m loving your posts. You’ve made a strong entrance — glad you’re here.

[Neeva]

If the Wolves give up significant assets to get injured Isaac, then might as well tank for next season. Get another top 3 pick in next years draft and then trade it along with Beasley, Layman, and future pick for Booker. Go all in for the 2021-2022 season.

Dlo
Booker
Culver
Isaac
Towns

[Domejandro]

If the Wolves give up significant assets to get injured Isaac, then might as well tank for next season. Get another top 3 pick in next years draft and then trade it along with Beasley, Layman, and future pick for Booker. Go all in for the 2021-2022 season.

Dlo
Booker
Culver
Isaac
Towns

With how the Lottery is currently structured, tanking to try to save our pick is pretty much a pointless strategy.

[KGdaBom]

If the Wolves give up significant assets to get injured Isaac, then might as well tank for next season. Get another top 3 pick in next years draft and then trade it along with Beasley, Layman, and future pick for Booker. Go all in for the 2021-2022 season.

Dlo
Booker
Culver
Isaac
Towns

With how the Lottery is currently structured, tanking to try to save our pick is pretty much a pointless strategy.

It's a little below 50/50 I think.

[shrink]

With how the Lottery is currently structured, tanking to try to save our pick is pretty much a pointless strategy.

You made me curious, so I looked at the odds...

If we finish with one of the three worst records in the nba, we still only have a 40% chance of keeping our top three protected pick.

The odds gets worse from there, obviously:

4th. 36%
5th. 32%
6th. 28%
7th. 23%
8th. 19%
9th. 15%
10th. 10%
11th. 7%
12th. 5%
13th. 3%
14th. 2%
Playoffs — 0%

So if we are probably giving it up anyway, I say, “Let’s make the playoffs”

[Neeva]

With how the Lottery is currently structured, tanking to try to save our pick is pretty much a pointless strategy.

You made me curious, so I looked at the odds...

If we finish with one of the three worst records in the nba, we still only have a 40% chance of keeping our top three protected pick.

The odds gets worse from there, obviously:

4th. 36%
5th. 32%
6th. 28%
7th. 23%
8th. 19%
9th. 15%
10th. 10%
11th. 7%
12th. 5%
13th. 3%
14th. 2%
Playoffs — 0%

So if we are probably giving it up anyway, I say, “Let’s make the playoffs”

Probably not a good idea to give up assets for an injured player that will miss entire season.

[Neeva]

If the Wolves give up significant assets to get injured Isaac, then might as well tank for next season. Get another top 3 pick in next years draft and then trade it along with Beasley, Layman, and future pick for Booker. Go all in for the 2021-2022 season.

Dlo
Booker
Culver
Isaac
Towns

With how the Lottery is currently structured, tanking to try to save our pick is pretty much a pointless strategy.

Yeah would try to trade the first to the warriors to make that pick lotto protected instead of top 3 protected. Then trade the 2 for Isaac .

[TaylorTag]

Who says no?

ATL In: #1, Jake Layman, Jaylen Nowell, Jacob Evans
MN In: #6, Cam Reddish, Kevin Huerter

Atlanta moves up to take Georgia native and future wingman of Trae Young. Takes on some fillers in Nowell and Jacobs who may prove value with their small contracts and a verge NBA starter in Layman.

Wolves move back a few spots and pick up some wing players who have potential to be key pieces in a Towns and Russell-led team. Wolves draft one of Onyeka Onkongwu or Obi Toppin depending on who’s available.

For the sake of this exercise, let’s say worst case scenario we draft Toppin. Our depth chart would look like:

PG: Russell, McLaughlin
SG: Beasley, Huerter
SF: Okogie, Culver, Reddish
PF: Toppin, Hernangomez, Vanderbilt
C: Towns, Reid

That’s a pretty balanced roster that gives us the opportunity to draft best player available at #17 and our 2RP.

Cam Reddish would give us needed depth at the wing and Huerter gives us our bench some needed 3-point shooting. I’m not sure I love the fit of Toppin next to KAT, but that’s risk of moving out of #1, you might not get the perfect player.

What do you guys think? Would you do it? Is this something Atlanta would be interested in?

[Domejandro]

If the Wolves give up significant assets to get injured Isaac, then might as well tank for next season. Get another top 3 pick in next years draft and then trade it along with Beasley, Layman, and future pick for Booker. Go all in for the 2021-2022 season.

Dlo
Booker
Culver
Isaac
Towns

With how the Lottery is currently structured, tanking to try to save our pick is pretty much a pointless strategy.

Yeah would try to trade the first to the warriors to make that pick lotto protected instead of top 3 protected. Then trade the 2 for Isaac .

Why would the Golden State Warriors do that? That just isn't going to happen.

[Neeva]

With how the Lottery is currently structured, tanking to try to save our pick is pretty much a pointless strategy.

Yeah would try to trade the first to the warriors to make that pick lotto protected instead of top 3 protected. Then trade the 2 for Isaac .

Why would the Golden State Warriors do that? That just isn't going to happen.

Fine they won’t be getting wiseman.

[Wolveswin]

Ok the trade board sucked me in. But I thought a wonderful but crazy thought exercise here.

We know Rosas has Rockets roots. What if Rockets get bounced in first round. Any chance — as suggested on main trade board — Wolves would make a call on Harden? If he was remotely made available, do Timberwolves consider?

I would assume it would be:

Russell + Culver + #1 Overall + #17 + Future Draft Consideration for Harden.

Does that get Rockets to move Harden?

Does a Towns & Harden pairing excite the Wolves fan base?

[shrink]

Who says no?

ATL In: #1, Jake Layman, Jaylen Nowell, Jacob Evans
MN In: #6, Cam Reddish, Kevin Huerter

Atlanta moves up to take Georgia native and future wingman of Trae Young. Takes on some fillers in Nowell and Jacobs who may prove value with their small contracts and a verge NBA starter in Layman.

Wolves move back a few spots and pick up some wing players who have potential to be key pieces in a Towns and Russell-led team. Wolves draft one of Onyeka Onkongwu or Obi Toppin depending on who’s available.

For the sake of this exercise, let’s say worst case scenario we draft Toppin. Our depth chart would look like:

PG: Russell, McLaughlin
SG: Beasley, Huerter
SF: Okogie, Culver, Reddish
PF: Toppin, Hernangomez, Vanderbilt
C: Towns, Reid

That’s a pretty balanced roster that gives us the opportunity to draft best player available at #17 and our 2RP.

Cam Reddish would give us needed depth at the wing and Huerter gives us our bench some needed 3-point shooting. I’m not sure I love the fit of Toppin next to KAT, but that’s risk of moving out of #1, you might not get the perfect player.

What do you guys think? Would you do it? Is this something Atlanta would be interested in?

I like the flexibility this gives Rosas in future trades, and even as an asset play, I have this as a big win for the Wolves. Usually, to sell the trade to your fans, you expect one great asset if you trade the #1,but maybe this season it doesn’t have that value.

I think you may be lower on Reddish than Hawks fans. I recently asked them to rank the trade value of their assets, and one of them gave me this:

1- Trae Young: Off the charts. I don't think the Hawks would take Steph Curry for Trae due to Curry being 31.
2 - John Collins: Underrated/Under appreciated. I do not think they would send Collins for #1.
3 - Cam Reddish/DeAndre Hunter.: Neither is going anywhere for anything less than a top five pick.
4 - Capela: They might move him to get Edwards; but I do not think they would do it to get Wiseman.
5. - #6 pick
6 - Huerter: I think he is worth a 10 - 14 pick and in this draft, I am pretty sure the Hawks would prefer Huerter over the pick

Also, while it’s too early to make predictions, I think we would be lucky if Toppin was still on the board at #6.

I like the concept. ATL may be one of the most likely teams to pay to bring in their guy.

[KGdaBom]

Who says no?

ATL In: #1, Jake Layman, Jaylen Nowell, Jacob Evans
MN In: #6, Cam Reddish, Kevin Huerter

Atlanta moves up to take Georgia native and future wingman of Trae Young. Takes on some fillers in Nowell and Jacobs who may prove value with their small contracts and a verge NBA starter in Layman.

Wolves move back a few spots and pick up some wing players who have potential to be key pieces in a Towns and Russell-led team. Wolves draft one of Onyeka Onkongwu or Obi Toppin depending on who’s available.

For the sake of this exercise, let’s say worst case scenario we draft Toppin. Our depth chart would look like:

PG: Russell, McLaughlin
SG: Beasley, Huerter
SF: Okogie, Culver, Reddish
PF: Toppin, Hernangomez, Vanderbilt
C: Towns, Reid

That’s a pretty balanced roster that gives us the opportunity to draft best player available at #17 and our 2RP.

Cam Reddish would give us needed depth at the wing and Huerter gives us our bench some needed 3-point shooting. I’m not sure I love the fit of Toppin next to KAT, but that’s risk of moving out of #1, you might not get the perfect player.

What do you guys think? Would you do it? Is this something Atlanta would be interested in?

I like the flexibility this gives Rosas in future trades, and even as an asset play, I have this as a big win for the Wolves. Usually, to sell the trade to your fans, you expect one great asset if you trade the #1,but maybe this season it doesn’t have that value.

I think you may be lower on Reddish than Hawks fans. I recently asked them to rank the trade value of their assets, and one of them gave me this:

1- Trae Young: Off the charts. I don't think the Hawks would take Steph Curry for Trae due to Curry being 31.
2 - John Collins: Underrated/Under appreciated. I do not think they would send Collins for #1.
3 - Cam Reddish/DeAndre Hunter.: Neither is going anywhere for anything less than a top five pick.
4 - Capela: They might move him to get Edwards; but I do not think they would do it to get Wiseman.
5. - #6 pick
6 - Huerter: I think he is worth a 10 - 14 pick and in this draft, I am pretty sure the Hawks would prefer Huerter over the pick

Also, while it’s too early to make predictions, I think we would be lucky if Toppin was still on the board at #6.

I like the concept. ATL may be one of the most likely teams to pay to bring in their guy.

Most Hawks fans I talk to have Reddish more valuable than Collins and they wouldn't trade Reddish for the #1 overall pick.
One of Toppin or Okongwu should be available at 6 and I would prefer it to be Okongwu.

[Domejandro]

Ok the trade board sucked me in. But I thought a wonderful but crazy thought exercise here.

We know Rosas has Rockets roots. What if Rockets get bounced in first round. Any chance — as suggested on main trade board — Wolves would make a call on Harden? If he was remotely made available, do Timberwolves consider?

I would assume it would be:

Russell + Culver + #1 Overall + #17 + Future Draft Consideration for Harden.

Does that get Rockets to move Harden?

Does a Towns & Harden pairing excite the Wolves fan base?

If we are trading for Harden, this is as high as I go.

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

The entire point of getting Harden would be to add him to our two existing stars, in my opinion. I laid out a three way trade with Golden State below.

Spoiler:

GSW: James Johnson (TPE), Omari Spellman, and #17
OUT: Minnesota's 2021 First Round Draft Pick (1-3 Protected)

Why for Golden State? Cash in on Minnesota's pick this year and get a large, tradeable salary in place of their TPE.

HOU: Jarrett Culver, #1, and multiple firsts*
OUT: James Harden

Why for Houston? Get the first overall draft pick, a talented young wing, a multitude of firsts, and save massive amounts of money by ducking the Luxury-Tax (which is important to Houston's owner).

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

Why for Minnesota? James Harden.

*Multiple Firsts:

2021 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2022 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2023 First Rounds Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2024 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2025 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)

[Wolveswin]

Ok the trade board sucked me in. But I thought a wonderful but crazy thought exercise here.

We know Rosas has Rockets roots. What if Rockets get bounced in first round. Any chance — as suggested on main trade board — Wolves would make a call on Harden? If he was remotely made available, do Timberwolves consider?

I would assume it would be:

Russell + Culver + #1 Overall + #17 + Future Draft Consideration for Harden.

Does that get Rockets to move Harden?

Does a Towns & Harden pairing excite the Wolves fan base?

If we are trading for Harden, this is as high as I go.

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

The entire point of getting Harden would be to add him to our two existing stars, in my opinion. I laid out a three way trade with Golden State below.

Spoiler:

GSW: James Johnson (TPE), Omari Spellman, and #17
OUT: Minnesota's 2021 First Round Draft Pick (1-3 Protected)

Why for Golden State? Cash in on Minnesota's pick this year and get a large, tradeable salary in place of their TPE.

HOU: Jarrett Culver, #1, and multiple firsts*
OUT: James Harden

Why for Houston? Get the first overall draft pick, a talented young wing, a multitude of firsts, and save massive amounts of money by ducking the Luxury-Tax (which is important to Houston's owner).

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

Why for Minnesota? James Harden.

*Multiple Firsts:

2021 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2022 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2023 First Rounds Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2024 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2025 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)

Do the Wolves have the cap space to do Johnson + Culver and get back Harden (not including Russell)?

I am torn. If Wolves can get enough defense some how, Harden and Towns is plenty of offense. But after such a trade, Wolves are capped and asset void. Isn’t that the same predicament Rockets are in now? Wolves would need to be convinced remaining roster is championship level in the West.

[Domejandro]

Ok the trade board sucked me in. But I thought a wonderful but crazy thought exercise here.

We know Rosas has Rockets roots. What if Rockets get bounced in first round. Any chance — as suggested on main trade board — Wolves would make a call on Harden? If he was remotely made available, do Timberwolves consider?

I would assume it would be:

Russell + Culver + #1 Overall + #17 + Future Draft Consideration for Harden.

Does that get Rockets to move Harden?

Does a Towns & Harden pairing excite the Wolves fan base?

If we are trading for Harden, this is as high as I go.

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

The entire point of getting Harden would be to add him to our two existing stars, in my opinion. I laid out a three way trade with Golden State below.

Spoiler:

GSW: James Johnson (TPE), Omari Spellman, and #17
OUT: Minnesota's 2021 First Round Draft Pick (1-3 Protected)

Why for Golden State? Cash in on Minnesota's pick this year and get a large, tradeable salary in place of their TPE.

HOU: Jarrett Culver, #1, and multiple firsts*
OUT: James Harden

Why for Houston? Get the first overall draft pick, a talented young wing, a multitude of firsts, and save massive amounts of money by ducking the Luxury-Tax (which is important to Houston's owner).

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

Why for Minnesota? James Harden.

*Multiple Firsts:

2021 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2022 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2023 First Rounds Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2024 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2025 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)

Do the Wolves have the cap space to do Johnson + Culver and get back Harden (not including Russell)?

I am torn. If Wolves can get enough defense some how, Harden and Towns is plenty of offense. But after such a trade, Wolves are capped and asset void. Isn’t that the same predicament Rockets are in now? Wolves would need to be convinced remaining roster is championship level in the West.

Once the Draft picks are signed, the trade would work (with fillers involved).