Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[minimus]

Jaden is not important for the playoffs. Jaden is one of the biggest reasons it's so easy to take Ant out of games. Ant is important for the playoffs.

And you trade McDaniels to bring another comboguard? I'd rather move Jaden PF position

Most definitely. Monk would average 20 points and 7 assists for the Wolves. He'd be the best passer on the team.

Well, he is playing with Sabonis in fast paced offense. I doubt that in MIN Monk would even average 5 assists with Gobert as C

[cmoss84]

Sorry...bored at work. Check this one out:
(I've left draft picks out for now-but they will almost certainly be part of the equation)

Chi OUT: Lavine, Vucevic, Ball, Buzelis, Phillips
Chi IN: Butler, Ingram, H. Jones, Alvarado
(1st apron hard-capped)
White-Alvarado-Dosunmu-Giddey-Ingram-Butler-H. Jones-Williams-Smith
They would have to sign a FA C...but this is an excellent rotation. Would need to extend Ingram.

Mia OUT: Jimmy Butler
Mia IN: Zach Lavine and Daniel Theis
(1st apron)
Rozier-Herro-Lavine-Robinson-Highsmith-Jovic-JJJ-Love-Bam
Goodbye General Soreness! Some star power to replace Butler. The rest of roster is kept intact.

NOP OUT: Ingram, H. Jones, Missi, JRE, Theis, J. Green, Alvarado
NOP IN: Randle, Vucevic, Buzelis, Phillips
(1st apron hard-capped)
D. Murray-CJ-Hawkins-Boston Jr., Buzelis-Murphy III-Zion-Randle-Vucevic
Trade away 4 expiring contracts. Will be instant playoff team next year, with a ton of roster flexibility and options.

MN OUT: Julius Randle
MN IN: Ball, Missi, JRE, J. Green
(2nd apron)
Squeezing as much juice out of Julius as we can. This sets up the NAW trade below. We would also have to waive/trade 2 guys.
Excellent depth at every position, allowing a reduction of minutes to keep healthy.

PG: Ball-Mike-Krejci-RD
SG: Ant-DD-J. Green-TSJ
SF: Jaden-Naz-JRE-Miller-Minott
PF: Naz-Jaden-Missi-JRE-Miller
C: Rudy-Missi-Garza

Trade #2: NAW for Vit Krejci

[BlacJacMac]

Sold.

If we could turn Randle into Ball and Missi, I don’t care what else we get.

[Klomp]

Most definitely. Monk would average 20 points and 7 assists for the Wolves. He'd be the best passer on the team.

Monk is simply a bigger version of what Rob Dillingham will become. I make this statement as an endorsement of Dillingham, and not as an insult to Monk.

[Klomp]

Ultimately, in these last few weeks before the deadline, the organization needs to come to an agreement on which of these things are most important through the end of this season and heading into the offseason and into 2025-26 and beyond.

-Winning in the playoffs
-Getting to the playoffs
-Giving Ant a wingman
-Lessening turnovers
-Staying with big lineups
-Cleaning up the cap sheet
-Player development
-Rounding out the bench
-Improved rebounding
-Creating more lineup versatility and switchability
-Finding a big and a point guard
-Extracting extra value on the margins in a trade
-Strengthening pot of trade assets

These are just a few of the options they could aim for. I really don't know at this point where I think they might go. But it's important to remember that one trade probably won't cure all ails.

[m2002brian]

Wingman is important, you build the duo and then you build around that duo.

[winforlose]

Wingman is important, you build the duo and then you build around that duo.

Rudy was acquired for the KAT window. After 2 years they bailed on the KAT window, (likely because KAT was hurt in both years,) and now they need to recalibrate for the Ant window. I expect to see Randle, Rudy, and maybe one more player moved this year or next year (Rudy cannot move this season,) Who that other player is depends on what we bring back. It could be Miller, Minott, Shannon, or Clark (sign him then move him,) but I doubt it is Dilly. The key pieces in the Ant roster will likely be Jaden, NAW, DDV, Naz, and Dilly.

[wolves_89]

One question I've thought about is whether Conley will consider retiring after the season. He's currently 37 and has had a pretty clear drop off in some areas of his game. His 2pt% is down around 14% over the rate he's maintained pretty much his whole career. He's also lost another half step on defense though he's still OK due to smart play. He's likely another small loss in athleticsm away from being a negative on the defensive end. One reason this question came to mind is that if Mike retires a lot of the Wolves salary issues next offseason disappear (the could likely resign Naz and NAW even if Randle picks up his player option).

[BlacJacMac]

One question I've thought about is whether Conley will consider retiring after the season. He's currently 37 and has had a pretty clear drop off in some areas of his game. His 2pt% is down around 14% over the rate he's maintained pretty much his whole career. He's also lost another half step on defense though he's still OK due to smart play. He's likely another small loss in athleticsm away from being a negative on the defensive end. One reason this question came to mind is that if Mike retires a lot of the Wolves salary issues next offseason disappear (the could likely resign Naz and NAW even if Randle picks up his player option).

That's only if his contract is not guaranteed for next year.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

[wolves_89]

One question I've thought about is whether Conley will consider retiring after the season. He's currently 37 and has had a pretty clear drop off in some areas of his game. His 2pt% is down around 14% over the rate he's maintained pretty much his whole career. He's also lost another half step on defense though he's still OK due to smart play. He's likely another small loss in athleticsm away from being a negative on the defensive end. One reason this question came to mind is that if Mike retires a lot of the Wolves salary issues next offseason disappear (the could likely resign Naz and NAW even if Randle picks up his player option).

That's only if his contract is not guaranteed for next year.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

If a player chooses to retire I don't believe that they get any salary unless the team agrees to some sort of arrangement.

[Klomp]

One question I've thought about is whether Conley will consider retiring after the season. He's currently 37 and has had a pretty clear drop off in some areas of his game. His 2pt% is down around 14% over the rate he's maintained pretty much his whole career. He's also lost another half step on defense though he's still OK due to smart play. He's likely another small loss in athleticsm away from being a negative on the defensive end. One reason this question came to mind is that if Mike retires a lot of the Wolves salary issues next offseason disappear (the could likely resign Naz and NAW even if Randle picks up his player option).

That's only if his contract is not guaranteed for next year.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

Could probably waive/buyout first, if that seems on the horizon. Then stretch that money.

[BlacJacMac]

One question I've thought about is whether Conley will consider retiring after the season. He's currently 37 and has had a pretty clear drop off in some areas of his game. His 2pt% is down around 14% over the rate he's maintained pretty much his whole career. He's also lost another half step on defense though he's still OK due to smart play. He's likely another small loss in athleticsm away from being a negative on the defensive end. One reason this question came to mind is that if Mike retires a lot of the Wolves salary issues next offseason disappear (the could likely resign Naz and NAW even if Randle picks up his player option).

That's only if his contract is not guaranteed for next year.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

If a player chooses to retire I don't believe that they get any salary unless the team agrees to some sort of arrangement.

They don't but the team is still on the hook. Its basically there to prevent wealthy teams from asking older players to retire to clear cap space (but making up the money in other ways.)

If a player voluntarily retires (as in the file it with the league office) they forgo the remainder of their salary and cannot return to the league for 1 year.

The Salary however still stays on the books for cap purposes. The exception to both situations is when the player is forced to retire due to injury/illness - in which case the player still gets paid, but the salary doesn't count against the team's cap.

[Klomp]

That's only if his contract is not guaranteed for next year.



https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

If a player chooses to retire I don't believe that they get any salary unless the team agrees to some sort of arrangement.

They don't but the team is still on the hook. Its basically there to prevent wealthy teams from asking older players to retire to clear cap space (but making up the money in other ways.)

If a player voluntarily retires (as in the file it with the league office) they forgo the remainder of their salary and cannot return to the league for 1 year.

The Salary however still stays on the books for cap purposes. The exception to both situations is when the player is forced to retire due to injury/illness - in which case the player still gets paid, but the salary doesn't count against the team's cap.

However, I don't believe it's removed until a year after the layer's last game played. Valuable if someone go seriously hurt early in a longterm contract, but the only potential value here is if he were waived and the money stretched over 3 years instead of 1, the last 2 years would disappear.

[BlacJacMac]

If a player chooses to retire I don't believe that they get any salary unless the team agrees to some sort of arrangement.

They don't but the team is still on the hook. Its basically there to prevent wealthy teams from asking older players to retire to clear cap space (but making up the money in other ways.)

If a player voluntarily retires (as in the file it with the league office) they forgo the remainder of their salary and cannot return to the league for 1 year.

The Salary however still stays on the books for cap purposes. The exception to both situations is when the player is forced to retire due to injury/illness - in which case the player still gets paid, but the salary doesn't count against the team's cap.

However, I don't believe it's removed until a year after the layer's last game played. Valuable if someone go seriously hurt early in a longterm contract, but the only potential value here is if he were waived and the money stretched over 3 years instead of 1, the last 2 years would disappear.

Right. And the injury clause doesn't affect us with Mike at all. I just added it for the sake of being complete on the rules.

[Klomp]

They don't but the team is still on the hook. Its basically there to prevent wealthy teams from asking older players to retire to clear cap space (but making up the money in other ways.)

If a player voluntarily retires (as in the file it with the league office) they forgo the remainder of their salary and cannot return to the league for 1 year.

The Salary however still stays on the books for cap purposes. The exception to both situations is when the player is forced to retire due to injury/illness - in which case the player still gets paid, but the salary doesn't count against the team's cap.

However, I don't believe it's removed until a year after the layer's last game played. Valuable if someone go seriously hurt early in a longterm contract, but the only potential value here is if he were waived and the money stretched over 3 years instead of 1, the last 2 years would disappear.

Right. And the injury clause doesn't affect us with Mike at all. I just added it for the sake of being complete on the rules.

It could if he retired due to injury...but I don't know how strict they are about those rules.

It's only actually happened like once or twice ever....was it Darius Miles perhaps?

[coolcono]

I doubt Houston would part with him, but I would love to have Brooks on this team.

[wolves_89]

That's only if his contract is not guaranteed for next year.



https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

If a player chooses to retire I don't believe that they get any salary unless the team agrees to some sort of arrangement.

They don't but the team is still on the hook. Its basically there to prevent wealthy teams from asking older players to retire to clear cap space (but making up the money in other ways.)

If a player voluntarily retires (as in the file it with the league office) they forgo the remainder of their salary and cannot return to the league for 1 year.

The Salary however still stays on the books for cap purposes. The exception to both situations is when the player is forced to retire due to injury/illness - in which case the player still gets paid, but the salary doesn't count against the team's cap.

It would have to be a buyout and waive as Klomp suggested. In that case it probably wouldn't completely solve the teams financial issues, but it could get them part of the way there.

[cmoss84]

Another Butler scenario:

Mia in: Randle and Stewart
Det in: Butler, '25 FRP (Det), '25 SRP (Utah)
MN in: Ivey, Holland, Duran

[winforlose]

Another Butler scenario:

Chi in: Randle and Stewart
Det in: Butler, '25 FRP (Det), '25 SRP (Utah)
MN in: Ivey, Holland, Duran

The trade board would call this the Wolves stealing value as Randle and a first are not worth both Ivey and Duran, much less Holland as well. You need to think about the individual value of each player on the trade market. Also Butler doesn’t want to be in Detroit and won’t stay. That means he is a rental and a disruptive one at that. A young Pistons team coming out of a rebuild is trading away four young players for Butler (35 years old, expensive, and on the decline,) their own first (which is not lottery if they make the playoffs and that is the only reason to acquire Butler,) and a 2nd that should have decent value. Finally you say Chicago but I think you mean Miami.

[cmoss84]

Another Butler scenario:

Chi in: Randle and Stewart
Det in: Butler, '25 FRP (Det), '25 SRP (Utah)
MN in: Ivey, Holland, Duran

The trade board would call this the Wolves stealing value as Randle and a first are not worth both Ivey and Duran, much less Holland as well. You need to think about the individual value of each player on the trade market. Also Butler doesn’t want to be in Detroit and won’t stay. That means he is a rental and a disruptive one at that. A young Pistons team coming out of a rebuild is trading away four young players for Butler (35 years old, expensive, and on the decline,) their own first (which is not lottery if they make the playoffs and that is the only reason to acquire Butler,) and a 2nd that should have decent value. Finally you say Chicago but I think you mean Miami.

Has Butler mentioned where he wanted to go? I thought Dallas was one but I can't remember.