The 2025 Wolves Off Season

[Guest84]

They're back...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pAtHzOgPDlk

[shrink]

I was listening to the Lock’d On Western Conference preview, and David Locke made an interesting point. He said that in the past, getting a Big Three was the key to winning championships, but under the new CBA, the key is to be able to put 240 minutes of good NBA talent on n the floor every night. He pointed out that the two teams that played for the championship (OKC and IND) were two of the deepest teams in the league.

Minnesota has made that U-Turn too, particularly after trading KAT for Randle, DDV, and sometime soon Beringer. Finch last year liked to say he had “eight starters” and our bench units with Naz, NAW and DDV, often had much greater talent than opponents’ bench. Last year, our MPG looked like this

36 Ant
33 Gobert
32 Randle
32 McDaniels
27 Naz
26 DDV
25 NAW
25 Conley
———————
236 of 240

This is really good, most teams can’t get this close to 240.

This type of assessment should help us this year as well, while penalizing teams like the Lakers.

[Klomp]

I was listening to the Lock’d On Western Conference preview, and David Locke made an interesting point. He said that in the past, getting a Big Three was the key to winning championships, but under the new CBA, the key is to be able to put 240 minutes of good NBA talent on n the floor every night. He pointed out that the two teams that played for the championship (OKC and IND) were two of the deepest teams in the league.

Minnesota has made that U-Turn too, particularly after trading KAT for Randle, DDV, and sometime soon Beringer. Finch last year liked to say he had “eight starters” and our bench units with Naz, NAW and DDV, often had much greater talent than opponents’ bench. Last year, our MPG looked like this

36 Ant
33 Gobert
32 Randle
32 McDaniels
27 Naz
26 DDV
25 NAW
25 Conley
———————
236 of 240

This is really good, most teams can’t get this close to 240.

This type of assessment should help us this year as well, while penalizing teams like the Lakers.

That's exactly what I said elsewhere (I think it was on the Gen board)

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

Cam Payne is still a free agent. Bones Hyland is still a Wolf. Can anyone help me understand why Bones is more valuable than Cam? For that matter can anyone help me understand why Dilly playing the non Mike minutes is more valuable than Cam? Or for that matter why Cam would rather be out of the NBA than our 10th or 11th man. I have issues with TC, but this is like “falling on your as* and landing in a pile of Christmas.” Quoting Raymond Reddington on the blacklist.

[Domejandro]

Cam Payne is still a free agent. Bones Hyland is still a Wolf. Can anyone help me understand why Bones is more valuable than Cam? For that matter can anyone help me understand why Dilly playing the non Mike minutes is more valuable than Cam? Or for that matter why Cam would rather be out of the NBA than our 10th or 11th man. I have issues with TC, but this is like “falling on your as* and landing in a pile of Christmas.” Quoting Raymond Reddington on the blacklist.

Being honest, Cameron Payne isn’t a particularly solid option either, even as a third-string.

[winforlose]

Cam Payne is still a free agent. Bones Hyland is still a Wolf. Can anyone help me understand why Bones is more valuable than Cam? For that matter can anyone help me understand why Dilly playing the non Mike minutes is more valuable than Cam? Or for that matter why Cam would rather be out of the NBA than our 10th or 11th man. I have issues with TC, but this is like “falling on your as* and landing in a pile of Christmas.” Quoting Raymond Reddington on the blacklist.

Being honest, Cameron Payne isn’t a particularly solid option either, even as a third-string.

He looked fine for NYK last year. Plus Bones is not NBA quality, Payne is.

[Klomp]

Cam Payne is still a free agent. Bones Hyland is still a Wolf. Can anyone help me understand why Bones is more valuable than Cam? For that matter can anyone help me understand why Dilly playing the non Mike minutes is more valuable than Cam? Or for that matter why Cam would rather be out of the NBA than our 10th or 11th man. I have issues with TC, but this is like “falling on your as* and landing in a pile of Christmas.” Quoting Raymond Reddington on the blacklist.

Being honest, Cameron Payne isn’t a particularly solid option either, even as a third-string.

He looked fine for NYK last year. Plus Bones is not NBA quality, Payne is.

The issue is the lens with which people look at Bones.

Bones is not a PG in the sense that Tyus Jones is one or even Cam Payne is one. But I will continue to say that this is not what they want from that position. In Finch's system, the high-usage positions are SG and PF. Around them, he plays 3/D guys. Guys who can offer one or the other or even both traits.

Bones has only averaged 6 assists per 36 one time in his career. That's not what he is on the floor to do. He is on the floor to be a floor spacer. He's a guy who has taken 59% of his FGs from 3-point range. His career 36% isn't elite, but was partially tanked in Los Angeles in 2023-24 because he was asked to play more of a traditional PG role.

That's not what he is asked to do here. That's not what Finch wants from him or from that roster spot.

[BlacJacMac]

Cam Payne is still a free agent. Bones Hyland is still a Wolf. Can anyone help me understand why Bones is more valuable than Cam? For that matter can anyone help me understand why Dilly playing the non Mike minutes is more valuable than Cam? Or for that matter why Cam would rather be out of the NBA than our 10th or 11th man. I have issues with TC, but this is like “falling on your as* and landing in a pile of Christmas.” Quoting Raymond Reddington on the blacklist.

Being honest, Cameron Payne isn’t a particularly solid option either, even as a third-string.

He looked fine for NYK last year. Plus Bones is not NBA quality, Payne is.

Payne last year: 15 MPG. 7 PPG on 40/36/91 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 31 Years old.
Bones career: 17 MPG. 9.5 PPG on 40/36/85 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 25 years old.

[winforlose]

Being honest, Cameron Payne isn’t a particularly solid option either, even as a third-string.

He looked fine for NYK last year. Plus Bones is not NBA quality, Payne is.

Payne last year: 15 MPG. 7 PPG on 40/36/91 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 31 Years old.
Bones career: 17 MPG. 9.5 PPG on 40/36/85 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 25 years old.

When Bones has multiple seasons with 4 or more assists per game then we can talk. Also Payne’s defense might be bad, but Bones is worse. Bones has the attitude that he is too important to play defense, Payne as far as I know does not.

[BlacJacMac]

He looked fine for NYK last year. Plus Bones is not NBA quality, Payne is.

Payne last year: 15 MPG. 7 PPG on 40/36/91 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 31 Years old.
Bones career: 17 MPG. 9.5 PPG on 40/36/85 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 25 years old.

When Bones has multiple seasons with 4 or more assists per game then we can talk. Also Payne’s defense might be bad, but Bones is worse. Bones has the attitude that he is too important to play defense, Payne as far as I know does not.

Payne wants to be a scorer. He's shown no inclination of ever playing defense.

Payne > Bones is not a hill worth dying on.

[winforlose]

Payne last year: 15 MPG. 7 PPG on 40/36/91 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 31 Years old.
Bones career: 17 MPG. 9.5 PPG on 40/36/85 shooting. Career 2/1 AST/TO. Terrible defender. 25 years old.

When Bones has multiple seasons with 4 or more assists per game then we can talk. Also Payne’s defense might be bad, but Bones is worse. Bones has the attitude that he is too important to play defense, Payne as far as I know does not.

Payne wants to be a scorer. He's shown no inclination of ever playing defense.

Payne > Bones is not a hill worth dying on.

Payne is a competent PG 2 with experience, Bones should not even be in the league. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Klomp]

The spot is effectively the 13th or 14th man and will rack up probably 50+ DNP-CDs at least. Only 18.5% of the Hyland contract was guaranteed at signing. At 31 years old, a very real possibility that Payne was not willing to accept those terms.

[BlacJacMac]

When Bones has multiple seasons with 4 or more assists per game then we can talk. Also Payne’s defense might be bad, but Bones is worse. Bones has the attitude that he is too important to play defense, Payne as far as I know does not.

Payne wants to be a scorer. He's shown no inclination of ever playing defense.

Payne > Bones is not a hill worth dying on.

Payne is a competent PG 2 with experience, Bones should not even be in the league. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

The Pacers PG2 is out for at least a month. Payne couldn't beat out second-round pick Kam Jones or two-way guard RayJ Dennis for the job.

[winforlose]

Payne wants to be a scorer. He's shown no inclination of ever playing defense.

Payne > Bones is not a hill worth dying on.

Payne is a competent PG 2 with experience, Bones should not even be in the league. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

The Pacers PG2 is out for at least a month. Payne couldn't beat out second-round pick Kam Jones or two-way guard RayJ Dennis for the job.

Yet he is still better than Dilly and Bones. As for the Kam Jones and RayJ argument, it is a wasted year. They lost Turner for nothing and have TH out for the whole season. Why wouldn’t they try and develop young players and lose games? Whereas the Wolves could use a vet on a vet minimum who can actually run an offense.

[BlacJacMac]

Payne is a competent PG 2 with experience, Bones should not even be in the league. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

The Pacers PG2 is out for at least a month. Payne couldn't beat out second-round pick Kam Jones or two-way guard RayJ Dennis for the job.

Yet he is still better than Dilly and Bones. As for the Kam Jones and RayJ argument, it is a wasted year. They lost Turner for nothing and have TH out for the whole season. Why wouldn’t they try and develop young players and lose games? Whereas the Wolves could use a vet on a vet minimum who can actually run an offense.

And I don't believe Cam Payne is that guy.