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Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1061 » by Klomp » Thu Feb 3, 2022 9:52 pm

winforlose wrote:Simmons averaged 7.2 rebounds last year and 7.8 rebounds in 2019/20 season. We desperately need to get a guy who can play with V8 and KAT to get more boards, Simmons cannot even rebound as well as V8.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Very few players in the league can rebound as well as Vanderbilt. Does that mean he should play more than every one of them?

Let's put Simmons' rebounding into context. First of all, he does that playing next to Embiid, a similar situation as he'd have here with Towns. Save for a 14-game sample of Juancho after the trade and Vanderbilt now, Towns hasn't played next to a guy averaging 7.2 per game since Gorgui was starting with him in his first two seasons. Vanderbilt on the bench will still rebound, so you've increased the team rebounding considerably.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1062 » by winforlose » Thu Feb 3, 2022 9:55 pm

Klomp wrote:
winforlose wrote:Simmons averaged 7.2 rebounds last year and 7.8 rebounds in 2019/20 season. We desperately need to get a guy who can play with V8 and KAT to get more boards, Simmons cannot even rebound as well as V8.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Very few players in the league can rebound as well as Vanderbilt. Does that mean he should play more than every one of them?

Let's put Simmons' rebounding into context. First of all, he does that playing next to Embiid, a similar situation as he'd have here with Towns. Save for a 14-game sample of Juancho after the trade and Vanderbilt now, Towns hasn't played next to a guy averaging 7.2 per game since Gorgui was starting with him in his first two seasons. Vanderbilt on the bench will still rebound, so you've increased the team rebounding considerably.


How many minutes per game does V8 play? How many does Simmons play? Assuming they don’t play together because as we have sort of agreed to they cannot play together.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1063 » by winforlose » Thu Feb 3, 2022 9:58 pm

For all you trade for Simmons guys, we should include V8 in the deal and keep MCD. V8, Beasley, Prince and an unprotected first. They should jump at it,
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1064 » by Howard Cosell » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:00 pm

Vando and Simmons can play together.
With ANT, Towns and Dlo they definitely can play together.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1065 » by winforlose » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:03 pm

Howard Cosell wrote:Vando and Simmons can play together.
With ANT, Towns and Dlo they definitely can play together.


You have already seen how hard it is to play V8 with the big 3 and Bev. They crowd the paint and deny the drive. Double up KAT every time he gets the ball. Add Simmons and now they can live in the paint and force us to shoot more 3s.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1066 » by fattymcgee » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:11 pm

winforlose wrote:
Howard Cosell wrote:Vando and Simmons can play together.
With ANT, Towns and Dlo they definitely can play together.


You have already seen how hard it is to play V8 with the big 3 and Bev. They crowd the paint and deny the drive. Double up KAT every time he gets the ball. Add Simmons and now they can live in the paint and force us to shoot more 3s.


WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TAKE!
The starting lineup of the big 3 plus V8 and Bev LEADS THE ENTIRE NBA IN NET RATING!!! And you think they can't play together? Jebus man! Seriously!

Sorry about the all caps anger, but SERIOUSLY! Could anything more stupid be written on here? The most effective starting lineup in the entire NBA and you think they can't play together?

I want to keep ranting on how dumb that comment was but I'm going to save my energy.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1067 » by Howard Cosell » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:13 pm

winforlose wrote:
Howard Cosell wrote:Vando and Simmons can play together.
With ANT, Towns and Dlo they definitely can play together.


You have already seen how hard it is to play V8 with the big 3 and Bev. They crowd the paint and deny the drive. Double up KAT every time he gets the ball. Add Simmons and now they can live in the paint and force us to shoot more 3s.


I see a very effective half court offense since early January.

Simmons will make our transition offense and defense better.

If Beal becomes available I believe Twolves have a shot and will go for it…but if Beal doesn’t become available this is all moot unfortunately.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1068 » by winforlose » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:14 pm

fattymcgee wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Howard Cosell wrote:Vando and Simmons can play together.
With ANT, Towns and Dlo they definitely can play together.


You have already seen how hard it is to play V8 with the big 3 and Bev. They crowd the paint and deny the drive. Double up KAT every time he gets the ball. Add Simmons and now they can live in the paint and force us to shoot more 3s.


WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TAKE!
The starting lineup of the big 3 plus V8 and Bev LEADS THE ENTIRE NBA IN NET RATING!!! And you think they can't play together? Jebus man! Seriously!

Sorry about the all caps anger, but SERIOUSLY! Could anything more stupid be written on here? The most effective starting lineup in the entire NBA and you think they can't play together?

I want to keep ranting on how dumb that comment was but I'm going to save my energy.


You really don’t see the difference between Pat Bev, and Simmons. Bev is a career 37.8 3 point shooter, Simmons is a career 14.7% on 34 shots. You don’t think spacing would be an issue?
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1069 » by fattymcgee » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:20 pm

winforlose wrote:
fattymcgee wrote:
winforlose wrote:
You have already seen how hard it is to play V8 with the big 3 and Bev. They crowd the paint and deny the drive. Double up KAT every time he gets the ball. Add Simmons and now they can live in the paint and force us to shoot more 3s.


WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TAKE!
The starting lineup of the big 3 plus V8 and Bev LEADS THE ENTIRE NBA IN NET RATING!!! And you think they can't play together? Jebus man! Seriously!

Sorry about the all caps anger, but SERIOUSLY! Could anything more stupid be written on here? The most effective starting lineup in the entire NBA and you think they can't play together?

I want to keep ranting on how dumb that comment was but I'm going to save my energy.


You really don’t see the difference between Pat Bev, and Simmons. Bev is a career 37.8 3 point shooter, Simmons is a career 14.7% on 34 shots. You don’t think spacing would be an issue?


I wasn't talking about Simmons, I was referencing your quote "You have already seen how hard it is to play V8 with the big 3 and Bev."
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1070 » by MN7725 » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:27 pm

Howard Cosell wrote:Vando and Simmons can play together.
With ANT, Towns and Dlo they definitely can play together.


The only concern I have is if Ben still has the FT yips where he's afraid of contact, afraid to going to the rim

Because it's a 100% true that teams don't defend him outside the paint, that spacing concern is legit but Simmons would take advantage of the space once he got the ball by becoming a 6'10 freight train that got a head start since nobody was near him, and could get to the rim with one dribble from the 3pt line and collapse the defense.

Big difference between an opposing team not guarding a player that has that combo of size/athleticism/ball skills/passing vs. a Vanderbilt or Taj Gibson type.

But if Ben doesn't have that aggressiveness anymore to use those skills, than he's not fundamentally different in half court
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1071 » by shrink » Thu Feb 3, 2022 10:40 pm

KGdaBom wrote:I get both sides on the Simmons question. However, I think the positive arguments tend to be more evidence based regarding what he does on the court and negative ones are making more assumptions about his character. I hated what Jimmy Butler did in leaving the Wolves. I consider him a POS for that. Simmons is doing similar things, but to me his behavior is somewhat justified due to how the 76ers treated him.

Jimmy played anyway, and played well. He is a professional.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1072 » by winforlose » Thu Feb 3, 2022 11:00 pm

fattymcgee wrote:
winforlose wrote:
fattymcgee wrote:
WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TAKE!
The starting lineup of the big 3 plus V8 and Bev LEADS THE ENTIRE NBA IN NET RATING!!! And you think they can't play together? Jebus man! Seriously!

Sorry about the all caps anger, but SERIOUSLY! Could anything more stupid be written on here? The most effective starting lineup in the entire NBA and you think they can't play together?

I want to keep ranting on how dumb that comment was but I'm going to save my energy.


You really don’t see the difference between Pat Bev, and Simmons. Bev is a career 37.8 3 point shooter, Simmons is a career 14.7% on 34 shots. You don’t think spacing would be an issue?


I wasn't talking about Simmons, I was referencing your quote "You have already seen how hard it is to play V8 with the big 3 and Bev."


I was referencing the early season struggles before we adapted. Go to CanisHoopus you will find tons of podcasts about how they are laying off V8 and doubling KAT while denying Ant the drive.

I will grant you that the overall numbers are favorable given a small sample size. I have also asked in the other threads about the strength of opponent when running that lineup, and I am curious about our overall record with it.

In any event the point of the post was to establish that two non shooters would be too detrimental to our offense.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1073 » by KGdaBom » Fri Feb 4, 2022 2:22 am

shrink wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I get both sides on the Simmons question. However, I think the positive arguments tend to be more evidence based regarding what he does on the court and negative ones are making more assumptions about his character. I hated what Jimmy Butler did in leaving the Wolves. I consider him a POS for that. Simmons is doing similar things, but to me his behavior is somewhat justified due to how the 76ers treated him.

Jimmy played anyway, and played well. He is a professional.

General Soreness? Didn't play well. Had a flash or two.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1074 » by Klomp » Fri Feb 4, 2022 3:04 am

shrink wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I get both sides on the Simmons question. However, I think the positive arguments tend to be more evidence based regarding what he does on the court and negative ones are making more assumptions about his character. I hated what Jimmy Butler did in leaving the Wolves. I consider him a POS for that. Simmons is doing similar things, but to me his behavior is somewhat justified due to how the 76ers treated him.

Jimmy played anyway, and played well. He is a professional.

You must be joking!

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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1075 » by shrink » Fri Feb 4, 2022 3:22 am

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I get both sides on the Simmons question. However, I think the positive arguments tend to be more evidence based regarding what he does on the court and negative ones are making more assumptions about his character. I hated what Jimmy Butler did in leaving the Wolves. I consider him a POS for that. Simmons is doing similar things, but to me his behavior is somewhat justified due to how the 76ers treated him.

Jimmy played anyway, and played well. He is a professional.

You must be joking!

This wasn’t hard to fact check. To compare:

Jimmy Butler played 10 of 13 games for us that season. He played 35 or more minutes in 8 of them, 2 times over 41 minutes. He averaged 5.2 RPG, 4.3 APG, and 21.3 PPG.

Ben Simmons played 0 of 51 games for PHI this season. He played 0 or less minutes in 51 of them. Simmons averaged 0 RPG, 0 APG, and 0 PPG. He also took a $31 mil chunk out of his teams payroll for no production.

If you like Simmons, you should try to ignore any comparison of the professionalism of these two guys.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1076 » by King Malta » Fri Feb 4, 2022 3:38 am

Yeah Butler was the very definition of professional. With his sham of a training outburst and his little tell all interview with Rachel.

They're both displaying unprofessionalism in different ways, but spare me the "Jimmy is a professional" narrative.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1077 » by shrink » Fri Feb 4, 2022 4:00 am

Ok - maybe professional is the wrong word for Jimmy.

But Butler blew up a practice, and missed only three games. Ben Simmons is exponentially more unprofessional.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1078 » by King Malta » Fri Feb 4, 2022 4:40 am

shrink wrote:Ok - maybe professional is the wrong word for Jimmy.

But Butler blew up a practice, and missed only three games. Ben Simmons is exponentially more unprofessional.


Splitting hairs in my opinion.

Butler single handedly nuked a team full of personalities that had done nothing but cater to his madness and bloke smoke up his ass for a year, going so far as to apparently demand the team extend his contract in a way that was impossible to carry out without blowing up the roster. He then ran to the press and has spent the better part of the last 3 years of his career undermining and sniping at KAT, effectively spinning a narrative about him that has been a yoke on KAT's shoulders ever since, very professional. Let's not forget that he also had issues in Chicago and Philadelphia, Miami is basically the only team where he's avoided creating any fractures or controversy, I suspect because everything is rosy and they're winning.

Simmons was more or less fine in Philadelphia until his running mate and coach essentially decided to publicly blame him for a series loss where both of those guys had some blame to shoulder, after Simmons had silently keep the team running for years when Embiid would take his regular holidays.

I don't think he's 'exponentially' more unprofessional than a guy who's behaved in the way Butler has over the last 5ish years.

Edit: Just wanted to make it clear given that reading this back it almost seems like an endorsement of Simmons in comparison, and thats not what I'm trying to get at here, as I think Ben's handling of the situation has indeed been very unprofessional. I just feel like Butler's numerous incidents of unprofessional behaviour weren't being fairly represented
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1079 » by minimus » Fri Feb 4, 2022 5:38 am

King Malta wrote:Yeah Butler was the very definition of professional. With his sham of a training outburst and his little tell all interview with Rachel.

They're both displaying unprofessionalism in different ways, but spare me the "Jimmy is a professional" narrative.

shrink is a well documented an anti Simmons guy. shrink is also a well documented an anti DLo guy. I understand all basketball reasons behind such thinking but I still believe Simmons and Russell situations are more about proper coaching, team fit etc. Simmons and Embiid are bad fit. Rivers is a mediocre coach. Embiid has not been a very supportive teammate.

P.S. Before MIA Butler did not show much as first option, but he built an image of tough player by throwing under the bus other people. I grew up in a very criminal district and saw this tactics there. Butler understands the value of media used for his interests. He created this narrative of lone warrior after team failure vs HOU in playoff, but before that he created a toxic locker room in CHI, where Rondo confronted him and said that veterans should not do this. Then he ruined Wiggjns and Towns images, then he said that Ben Simmons is interested only in money, yet Simmons loses money right now because he doesn't want to play for PHI.
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Re: Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition) 

Post#1080 » by shrink » Fri Feb 4, 2022 6:18 am

I think as icy Minnesota fans, you guys need to think long and hard about a player who simply refuses to honor his contract if he doesn’t like where he is.

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