Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[shrink]

shrink is a well documented an anti Simmons guy. shrink is also a well documented an anti DLo guy

Please don’t do this. It is intellectually dishonest to go after the poster, and label him a hater. It also implies that someone will lie about the facts to press their position, so what they say should be dismissed. In fact, I have said negative things about DLo when I felt it was deserved, and said positive things when he deserves those. Stick to the facts, don’t characterize the poster.

Whether you love Simmons or hate him, no one can deny the fact that he has chosen to not honor the contract he signed. No one has ever done this, to this degree. And regardless of anyone’s fantasies about him, there is no guarantee he would honor his contract here. No one can say, “we know he would be a good defensive player because he’s done that in the past,” and turn around and ignore that he can and will refuse to honor his contract, when he has also done that in the past. I simply can’t fathom how anyone, regardless of their views on Simmons, wouldn’t be scared to death of him repeating this behavior .. which will have already worked for him the first time.

[shangrila]

I think as icy Minnesota fans, you guys need to think long and hard about a player who simply refuses to honor his contract if he doesn’t like where he is.

It’s not like he thinks the city of Philly sucks. He’s just tired of constantly being thrown under the bus and scapegoated

[shrink]

I think as icy Minnesota fans, you guys need to think long and hard about a player who simply refuses to honor his contract if he doesn’t like where he is.

It’s not like he thinks the city of Philly sucks. He’s just tired of constantly being thrown under the bus and scapegoated

He refuses to play if he is unhappy. We are not a place free agents want to come. And at one point, Simmons said he wanted to be traded to three of the four California teams.

If any player refuses to honor his contract when they are unhappy, this is worse news for MIN than it is for, say, MIA.

[minimus]

shrink is a well documented an anti Simmons guy. shrink is also a well documented an anti DLo guy

Please don’t do this. It is intellectually dishonest to go after the poster, and label him a hater. It also implies that someone will lie about the facts to press their position, so what they say should be dismissed. In fact, I have said negative things about DLo when I felt it was deserved, and said positive things when he deserves those. Stick to the facts, don’t characterize the poster.

Whether you love Simmons or hate him, no one can deny the fact that he has chosen to not honor the contract he signed. No one has ever done this, to this degree. And regardless of anyone’s fantasies about him, there is no guarantee he would honor his contract here. No one can say, “we know he would be a good defensive player because he’s done that in the past,” and turn around and ignore that he can and will refuse to honor his contract, when he has also done that in the past. I simply can’t fathom how anyone, regardless of their views on Simmons, wouldn’t be scared to death of him repeating this behavior .. which will have already worked for him the first time.

shrink, please don't take it personally. I am enjoying having discussions with you, because we are "good and bad cops". I have not written "hater". I wrote "anti guy" and I respect your opinion. Based on DLo situation we can say all good things about DLo now, but the most important thing was seeing full picture of what DLo can bring here two years ago. I wanted to believe in positive outcome of Wiggins-DLo swap, but it was not clear for me until last month when Russell started to play PnR on high level.

So let me keep my opinion about Simmons and keep your opinion as possible risk. Reality is bigger than our fantasy so I am curious to see what tomorrow will bring.

[shangrila]

I think as icy Minnesota fans, you guys need to think long and hard about a player who simply refuses to honor his contract if he doesn’t like where he is.

It’s not like he thinks the city of Philly sucks. He’s just tired of constantly being thrown under the bus and scapegoated

He refuses to play if he is unhappy. We are not a place free agents want to come. And at one point, Simmons said he wanted to be traded to three of the four California teams.

If any player refuses to honor his contract when they are unhappy, this is worse news for MIN than it is for, say, MIA.

Ok, but why is he unhappy?

[shrink]

It’s not like he thinks the city of Philly sucks. He’s just tired of constantly being thrown under the bus and scapegoated

He refuses to play if he is unhappy. We are not a place free agents want to come. And at one point, Simmons said he wanted to be traded to three of the four California teams.

If any player refuses to honor his contract when they are unhappy, this is worse news for MIN than it is for, say, MIA.

Ok, but why is he unhappy?

Maybe I am not saying this well.

An individual player can be unhappy for many reasons,
Only Simmons has completely refused to honor his contract because he is unhappy.
Therefore, we should worry about Simmons’ response if he becomes unhappy again.

[shangrila]

He refuses to play if he is unhappy. We are not a place free agents want to come. And at one point, Simmons said he wanted to be traded to three of the four California teams.

If any player refuses to honor his contract when they are unhappy, this is worse news for MIN than it is for, say, MIA.

Ok, but why is he unhappy?

Maybe I am not saying this well.

An individual player can be unhappy for many reasons,
Only Simmons has completely refused to honor his contract because he is unhappy.
Therefore, we should worry about Simmons’ response if he becomes unhappy again.

That seems like a very simplistic viewpoint.

Being unhappy about playing time or lack of an extension or being scapegoated aren’t all the same things nor are they guaranteed to trigger the same response, which seems to be what you’re driving at.

[minimus]

I want only add one thing then I will shut up.

KAT was labeled as bad defender for years. Is it true? Yes, but as we see now we can clarify it to: Towns is a bad/awful defender in drop scheme, AND a good defender in blitz/high wall scheme when he (with Beverly) using his quickness to slow down opponent PoA.

Russell was labeled as bad defender for years. Is it true? Yes, but as we see now we can clarify it to: Russell is a bad defender if in defensive scheme he is passively hidden on weak side, AND a good defender in blitz/high wall scheme when he actively communicating on the floor and roaming in the paint.

The problem is that I have to clarify these things to non MIN fans. But nowadays there is not much interest in deep dive, because click bait things are being sold more. So would try to avoid all the noise around Simmons, and go to deeper to basketball, because it looks like same old narrative "Towns is soft, Towns is a bad leader!"

Now I will shut up.

[Howard Cosell]

“The Minnesota Timberwolves have been willing to discuss a trade package with the Philadelphia 76ers that includes Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic.

The Wolves, however, are unwilling to include draft capital as part of the Trade. The 76ers do not view both players as part of a salary dump trade. The gap between how the 76ers and Wolves view the trade has led the two sides to not gain much traction.“

What the bleep?

[Howard Cosell]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-nba-trade-deadline-sixers-nets-plan-to-discuss-a-ben-simmons-for-james-harden-deal-per-report/amp/


“The Minnesota Timberwolves are also still conversing with the Sixers to acquire Simmons, but don't want to meet Philly's high asking price in regards to draft picks.”

[MN7725]

“The Minnesota Timberwolves have been willing to discuss a trade package with the Philadelphia 76ers that includes Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic.

The Wolves, however, are unwilling to include draft capital as part of the Trade. The 76ers do not view both players as part of a salary dump trade. The gap between how the 76ers and Wolves view the trade has led the two sides to not gain much traction.“

What the bleep?

Russell would have to be included just to get the salary matching

[Howard Cosell]

Russell
Beverley
Prince
Beasley

For

Simmons
Harris

I don’t know how the deal could be any different….unless 76ers could somehow bring back 6 guys from Twolves.

Also….76ers must be asking for multiple FRP’s which Twolves are correct in now going down that road with the addition of Harris in the deal…for its at least a partial salary dump.

Now…if the deal could be consummated with 1 Minnesota FRP I would consider this deal….but something else would need to happen in a separate deal to boost Twolves backcourt.

[shrink]

“The Minnesota Timberwolves have been willing to discuss a trade package with the Philadelphia 76ers that includes Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic.

The Wolves, however, are unwilling to include draft capital as part of the Trade. The 76ers do not view both players as part of a salary dump trade. The gap between how the 76ers and Wolves view the trade has led the two sides to not gain much traction.“

What the bleep?

Together they make $69 mil!

This seems nuts.

[MN7725]

Russell
Beverley
Prince
Beasley

For

Simmons
Harris

I don’t know how the deal could be any different….unless 76ers could somehow bring back 6 guys from Twolves.

Also….76ers must be asking for multiple FRP’s which Twolves are correct in now going down that road with the addition of Harris in the deal…for its at least a partial salary dump.

Now…if the deal could be consummated with 1 Minnesota FRP I would consider this deal.

Harris has one more year than Russell, but pretty good assumption that Wolves will need to re-sign Russell, so that salary slot is kind of a wash over that period of time, both will be overpaid by quite a bit, but Harris will expire when ANT would get his 2nd contract

so then its Simmons for the rest of the Wolves need for salary matching

[shrink]

Russell
Beverley
Prince
Beasley

For

Simmons
Harris

I don’t know how the deal could be any different….unless 76ers could somehow bring back 6 guys from Twolves.

Also….76ers must be asking for multiple FRP’s which Twolves are correct in now going down that road with the addition of Harris in the deal…for its at least a partial salary dump.

Now…if the deal could be consummated with 1 Minnesota FRP I would consider this deal.

Harris has one more year than Russell, but pretty good assumption that Wolves will need to re-sign Russell, so that salary slot is kind of a wash over that period of time, both will be overpaid by quite a bit, but Harris will expire when ANT would get his 2nd contract

so then its Simmons for the rest of the Wolves need for salary matching

I don’t think Russell will get a max deal again. I’d look at something like $21, but right now it’s

THarris $36,000,000 $38,482,759 $40,965,517
Russell $30,013,500 $31,377,750 $?????????????

Harris is 29 already (DLo 25), so I am not a fan.

[Domejandro]

“The Minnesota Timberwolves have been willing to discuss a trade package with the Philadelphia 76ers that includes Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic.

The Wolves, however, are unwilling to include draft capital as part of the Trade. The 76ers do not view both players as part of a salary dump trade. The gap between how the 76ers and Wolves view the trade has led the two sides to not gain much traction.“

What the bleep?

Russell would have to be included just to get the salary matching

To be blunt, I am skeptical, because there is no trade happening with Ben Simmons unless James Harden is going to Philadelphia. The pieces add up weirdly for Brooklyn.

To humour the idea, though, it would have to basically be a framework (emphasis on "framework")....

Spoiler:

D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverly, and Taurean Prince

for

Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, and Shake Milton (or whomever)

Ben Simmons / Shake Milton / Jordan McLaughlin
Anthony Edwards / Jaylen Nowell / Leandro Bolmaro
Tobias Harris / Josh Okogie / Jake Layman
Jarred Vanderbilt / Jaden McDaniels
Karl-Anthony Towns / Naz Reid

It makes Minnesota's starting lineup ridiculous and absolutely MASSIVE, but man... that is a thin bench, even with the value being absurdly in Minnesota's favour. Obviously Minnesota would send out more in draft capital or prospects, but that would be the framework. In a three way deal, Minnesota would likely get Paul Millsap.

The ideal just doesn't really add up to me, given that it would require Brooklyn to prefer taking a pool of assets from Minnesota over just taking Ben Simmons for themselves. It's too perplexing to fully add up. I can't see Minnesota absorbing both, it's likely a segmented deal.

[Howard Cosell]

Looks like there is real steam involving Nets/Harden & 76ers/Simmons. If it falls through maybe 76ers & Twolves get back into discussions. Durant must have given his approval to Nets FO to pursue the Harden/Simmons deal..and if so it very well might get done.

[Howard Cosell]

To even go into deep talks with 76ers involving Simmons & Harris there has to be a great confidence inside Twolves FO that Jaylen Nowell is ready to take on a greater role with the team heading into stretch run.

[IceManBK1]

Simmons, Irving+Durant willing be better trio than currents nets trio with Harden. Simmons don't necessarily need the ball to be effective. he can just play pick and roll; and get his pts via garbage bucks. And he provide great defense for the nets; as well as rebounding. Harden+Irving+Durant=too much ball pounding. And no defense.

[Klomp]

You guys are looking at these rumors too simplemindedly. I bet we're attached to the Simmons/Harris thing not because we would take both, but because we would take one as part of say a trade for Harden ($44 million) or Lillard ($39 million). Philadelphia likely wants to unload both players in a deal like this, increasing the odds a third team would be involved.