Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[Macwolf527]

Based on Thibs and Layden's history of talking, we know it's not the Wolves talking. So anything said that's coming via the media will be in favor of Miami or Butler's camp because that's who's talking. There is absolutely no way Thibs is doing a deal without Richardson being included. He's the only piece that has a chances of replacing Butler in our line-up. The conversations don't even start without Richardson on the table.

The whole notion of the Wolves not being reasonable concerning Butler's value is ridiculous. If you don't want to pony up the assets, just move on. But all of this negativity directed at the Wolves brass would tick me off to if I was Thibs. It's not like they don't know who it's coming from, because that's any easy tell. Judging by Bernie Lee's client list, this might be the last big contract payment he ever get's so he's obviously feeling the pressure too. If he botches it, Jimmy could be on the lookout for another agent and team.

[KGdaBom]

You sound really defensive, I'm just applying history in past Riley trades. I have reiterated multiple times that if Minnesota finds a better deal, Riley will budge and throw in Richardson and the trade is done, but really don't think he has yet or we probably would have heard about an announcement a while back ago. All news outlet continue to say that Miami isn't offering Richardson and you're trying to attack me like I'm saying something blasphemous. Again, let me reiterate because it doesn't seem like I'm getting through to some here, I HAVE NO ISSUES WITH JRICH BEING ADDED TO THE DEAL, but also understand why Riley hasn't felt the need to offer him yet.

Not sure how that comes off as defensive, unless you are projecting something. It's just ya know...reality.

How is it reality that the deal doesn't get done without Richardson? Based on what? All I've read is there has been significant progress and at no point has Jrich or Bam been involved. Woj yesterday reported that Minnesota would prefer to have Jrich and Bam but at no point does it say that's part of the negotiation.

Deal is looking like what I thought it would - Winslow + Whiteside for Butler (and if we're taking Dieng then Timberwolves are taking Waiters unless a third team becomes part of it again).

Not only would wolves not take waiters if we were already taking Whiteside I don't think we could. We would be to far over the cap I think but I'm too lazy to check the trademachine.

[mplsfonz23]

Whiteside + Richardson for Butler + Dieng seems like the most logical deal.

Except we get a prospect and Miami gets an all star. Whiteside and Dieng are a wash IMO.

So, Butler for JRich seems logical? I think a little sweetner needs to be added.
JR+HW FRP/Bam for JB+ Dieng seems fair.

[mplsfonz23]

Not only would wolves not take waiters if we were already taking Whiteside I don't think we could. We would be to far over the cap I think but I'm too lazy to check the trademachine.

Don't bother. That trade will never happen. If it did, I could no longer support this team.
Focus only on FBB.

[Neeva]

Right the Miami loons that think they will get out of cap hell AND get an all star in return without giving any young assets are just laughable

Not only would wolves not take waiters if we were already taking Whiteside I don't think we could. We would be to far over the cap I think but I'm too lazy to check the trademachine.

Don't bother. That trade will never happen. If it did, I could no longer support this team.
Focus only on FBB.

[Rashodamus]

I wish Taylor would have literally said he will be gone by Sunday.

I really hope you aren't in charge of negotiating anything of importance in your real life....

Whats Rileys deadline to act? Why increase the offer?

Putting a deadline would have simply sped up the process. I dont have faith in Thibs/Layden, either in their ability as well as their mentality. If Thibs asked for Simmons their mentality is **** and isnt one of somebody genuinely trying to make a deal knowing the circumstances. They are coming from a place of delusion.

I guess I didnt talk myself into a deadline being the deciding factor. Ultimately I guess I feel like Taylor stepping in or not stepping in is neutral outside of time, MAYBE you squeeze a hair more out, but I think theres just as likely of a chance of teams tuning out and offers going down. After thinking about it the ultimate factor to me is the mentality and ability of the person performing the trade, which in this case is Thibs so I feel like were **** regardless. But I dont see any negative impact from Taylor saying that, if anything I think people are wondering what Thibs is doing. Even Butler didnt feel like they are really trying to trade him, numerous sources have claimed the wolves have been difficult to borderline ridiculous. It should have brought about firing Thibs immediately, but thats essentially no different than saying were trading Butler asap. Everybody knows we are trading Butler asap. If anything Taylor saying if u have a real deal call me is him trying to stop teams from being completely turned off due to Thibs insanity.

[Rashodamus]

Right the Miami loons that think they will get out of cap hell AND get an all star in return without giving any young assets are just laughable

Not only would wolves not take waiters if we were already taking Whiteside I don't think we could. We would be to far over the cap I think but I'm too lazy to check the trademachine.

Don't bother. That trade will never happen. If it did, I could no longer support this team.
Focus only on FBB.

My first instinct was to totally agree with you, but man, I can totally see how teams could see Butler as a big risk or not value him highly. His injuries being concern #1 id say, his contract and potentially paying him a billion dollars when hes 34 and possibly VERY broken down, and possibly his ego/attitude. I think about it sometimes and I wonder which is the worse scenario over the next 6 years, you dont have Jimmy Butler and all that he brings, or you do?

[shrink]

Thibs made a huge mistake, by not trading Butler before all this went public.

Butler’s people leaked this, not Thibs.

Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN:

The Wolves never wanted the trade request leaked. They were always willing to satisfy the trade request when it was made – what now? – two weeks ago today, two weeks ago in Los Angeles. But the Wolves had no intention of leaking said request. That was the Jimmy Butler side that leaked the request. The Wolves remain upset about that. So, I get a kick out of the Butler side – who’s been leaking everything, by the way. Well, I don’t want to say everything. But 98 percent of information you see out there is driven by the Butler side, OK. And they are upset a trade hasn’t been completed yet.

[theGreatRC]

Thibs made a huge mistake, by not trading Butler before all this went public.

Butler’s people leaked this, not Thibs.

Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN:

The Wolves never wanted the trade request leaked. They were always willing to satisfy the trade request when it was made – what now? – two weeks ago today, two weeks ago in Los Angeles. But the Wolves had no intention of leaking said request. That was the Jimmy Butler side that leaked the request. The Wolves remain upset about that. So, I get a kick out of the Butler side – who’s been leaking everything, by the way. Well, I don’t want to say everything. But 98 percent of information you see out there is driven by the Butler side, OK. And they are upset a trade hasn’t been completed yet.

Jimmy can fix this by rejoining the team, play in games, say the right things in interviews and not be toxic.

It'll give the illusion that he's not a total prick and maybe Riley will be like "OK, Bam & Rich" before steam starts to pick up during the season with other teams.

TBH, I don't know why Miami even wants to do this. Jimmy is not the type of you guy want maxed out at 33-34 years old, UNLESS Miami gets a guy better than him and they have two max guys. Jimmy is more of a 2nd best player on a championship level team than the main guy

[Killboard]

Thibs made a huge mistake, by not trading Butler before all this went public.

Butler’s people leaked this, not Thibs.

Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN:

The Wolves never wanted the trade request leaked. They were always willing to satisfy the trade request when it was made – what now? – two weeks ago today, two weeks ago in Los Angeles. But the Wolves had no intention of leaking said request. That was the Jimmy Butler side that leaked the request. The Wolves remain upset about that. So, I get a kick out of the Butler side – who’s been leaking everything, by the way. Well, I don’t want to say everything. But 98 percent of information you see out there is driven by the Butler side, OK. And they are upset a trade hasn’t been completed yet.

I read news about Butler skipping the exit meeting last season. You would think the topic was priority to be talked about at some point after he got here and before camp, preferably before draft.

[Macwolf527]

Jimmy can fix this by rejoining the team, play in games, say the right things in interviews and not be toxic.

It'll give the illusion that he's not a total prick and maybe Riley will be like "OK, Bam & Rich" before steam starts to pick up during the season with other teams.

TBH, I don't know why Miami even wants to do this. Jimmy is not the type of you guy want maxed out at 33-34 years old, UNLESS Miami gets a guy better than him and they have two max guys. Jimmy is more of a 2nd best player on a championship level team than the main guy

Outside of Richardson, I don’t consider Miami a good trading partner unless they include Bam too. The Clippers and Nets have the better picks and expiring contracts to get it done. You might come out better working with a 3rd team who has the veteran help that the Wolves seek who may be looking for cap relief.

A quarter to third of the way into the season will open up more prospects to consider in the equation because you can factor in players signed in this past offseason. I applaud Thibs for holding his ground. It’s only a clusterfxxx, because Taylor undermined Thibs by rushing the process.

[Kobewade11]

I wish we'd offer Richardson and get this over with for both parties

[SO_MONEY]

I wish we'd offer Richardson and get this over with for both parties

I wouldn't doubt MIA has. I don't think he is enough to both part with a top 10-15 player and take a bad contract and I honestly don't know if he is enough even if attached to neutral value which MIA doesn't have much of and that is hard to overcome. Ultimately I think something works out.

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[Kobewade11]

I wish we'd offer Richardson and get this over with for both parties

I wouldn't doubt MIA has. I don't think he is enough to both part with a top 10-15 player and take a bad contract and I honestly don't know if he is enough even if attached to neutral value which MIA doesn't have much of and that is hard to overcome. Ultimately I think something works out.

Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk

I think if Bam or Richardson was on the table this deal would've been done already. If I read the tea leaves right this probably started off with Hassan/Dion and a pick, Thib said we want more, Riley added Winslow to the fray and is drawing a line while Thibs want Rich or Bam. I understand both sides, if something doesn't get done I hope someone else steps up to the plate, and soon, to put an end to this saga.

[Worm Guts]

Richardson isn’t nearly good enough to assume a deal with him in it is automatically done.

[Worm Guts]

It’s looks like the idea of Jimmy playing with Kyrie next year is dead.

[cpfsf]

Thibs made a huge mistake, by not trading Butler before all this went public.

Butler’s people leaked this, not Thibs.

Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN:

The Wolves never wanted the trade request leaked. They were always willing to satisfy the trade request when it was made – what now? – two weeks ago today, two weeks ago in Los Angeles. But the Wolves had no intention of leaking said request. That was the Jimmy Butler side that leaked the request. The Wolves remain upset about that. So, I get a kick out of the Butler side – who’s been leaking everything, by the way. Well, I don’t want to say everything. But 98 percent of information you see out there is driven by the Butler side, OK. And they are upset a trade hasn’t been completed yet.

i'd wager butler leaked it, but does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? i felt in the last few months butler didn't really show any sign of wanting to stick around. it was really more of like a kevin love situation. he never expressed it, but you kind of just knew.

[Kobewade11]

Richardson isn’t nearly good enough to assume a deal with him in it is automatically done.

I don't necessarily disagree but I'd be willing to bet your front office would settle for a deal with him on the table as opposed to what is currently being offered.

[Worm Guts]

Richardson isn’t nearly good enough to assume a deal with him in it is automatically done.

I don't necessarily disagree but I'd be willing to bet your front office would settle for a deal with him on the table as opposed to what is currently being offered.

I don’t know what they’re willing to settle for and at what point willing to settle for it. I’d guess at minimum Richardson has to be involved and I wouldn’t be surprised if they spent some time trying to get more.

[urinesane]

I wish Taylor would have literally said he will be gone by Sunday.

I really hope you aren't in charge of negotiating anything of importance in your real life....

Whats Rileys deadline to act? Why increase the offer?

Putting a deadline would have simply sped up the process. I dont have faith in Thibs/Layden, either in their ability as well as their mentality. If Thibs asked for Simmons their mentality is **** and isnt one of somebody genuinely trying to make a deal knowing the circumstances. They are coming from a place of delusion.

I guess I didnt talk myself into a deadline being the deciding factor. Ultimately I guess I feel like Taylor stepping in or not stepping in is neutral outside of time, MAYBE you squeeze a hair more out, but I think theres just as likely of a chance of teams tuning out and offers going down. After thinking about it the ultimate factor to me is the mentality and ability of the person performing the trade, which in this case is Thibs so I feel like were **** regardless. But I dont see any negative impact from Taylor saying that, if anything I think people are wondering what Thibs is doing. Even Butler didnt feel like they are really trying to trade him, numerous sources have claimed the wolves have been difficult to borderline ridiculous. It should have brought about firing Thibs immediately, but thats essentially no different than saying were trading Butler asap. Everybody knows we are trading Butler asap. If anything Taylor saying if u have a real deal call me is him trying to stop teams from being completely turned off due to Thibs insanity.

The biggest deadline for Miami is December 15th. Otherwise, it's more about not wanting to throw away a season, when they could incorporate Butler right away and not waste a good chunk of the year nickle and dime-ing the Wolves.

Negotiation deadlines aren't really worth using since they aren't generally what makes/breaks a big business deal (they can always be pushed/extended, so they don't really have as much power as you may think). Also, since Miami is the highest bidder so far, what would the Wolves be threatening with an ultimatum like that? Like I said, not trying to be a dick, but I would never want you to negotiate something for me. It seems like you have misconceptions about how these things actually work in the real world.